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#4383335 - 10/05/17 05:32 PM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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NooJoyzee
Yep.


Animals flee this hell, the hardest stones cannot bear it for long. Only men endure
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#4383901 - 10/08/17 09:54 PM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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Having finally won my very first campaign (BMS 4.32.7 - Rolling Fire) since playing Falcon 4.0 since 1998, I tried Balkans 3.0 with update. Unfortunately as soon as I clicked "RECON" in the campaign UI, Falcon would crash to desktop. Hmm okay, then let's wait with Balkans until I'm on BMS 4.33.3/4.34.1. I tried ITO 0.991 which works all fine but sand just isn't really my thing.

So back to Korea then and this time I wanted to fly Iron Fortress. However, as DBond stated already, BMS Iron Fortress is not the Iron Fortress we all know.
Thankfully the original Korea Theaters/Campaigns are still included.

But looking at the classic Iron Fortress I noticed a few things I had to correct. Mind you, I don't want to "dumb down" the experience at all but I do want these "war games to be as realistic as possible. So I had to make a few changes using Mission Commander:

- I changed all DPRK SU-27 squadrons to a mix of MiG-29A and MiG-23ML squadrons. North Korea does not have any Flankers of any kind so that had to be changed.

- I boosted the DPRK by changing the majority of their MiG-19 squadrons to a mixture of MiG-21MF, MiG-23ML and MiG-29A squadrons. Within the DPRK the MiG-17 is used for training purposes only and the MiG-19s are no longer in front line service so I still had them have a two or three "reserve" squadrons far away from the FLOT but I increased the number of more relevant type. At the start of my Iron Fortress (Classic) campaign, the MiG-29A and MiG-23ML are the most numerous front line squadrons, supported by additional MIG-21 squadrons.

- I added the 44th and 67th Fighter Squadrons (F-15C) at Kadena where they are part of the 18th Wing in real-life anyway.

- I removed the F-111F squadron as the F-111E/F has been firmly retired from USAF and RAAF service.

- I changed the F-14D squadron into a F/A-18F squadron.

- I changed the F/A-18C squadron into a F/A-18E squadron.

- I added the ROKAF 255th Special Operations Squadron (C-130H) to Pusan Air Base to boost Allied logistics capabilities.

- I moved the US Army Patriot and ROK HAWK units to focus protection purely on our front line airbases as keeping these open is priority #1.

..... and we're off! smile I've had some interesting times killing the immediate SA-10 threats and being now at mid-day, we seem to have halted the wave of enemy aircraft. So I find myself flying a lot of BARCAP, TARCAP and Escort missions to provide coverage for the A-10s and ROKAF F-4Es, F-5Es and F-16Cs to hit the enemy ground forces at the FLOT, carrying additional AGM-88s in case some North Korean SA-2, SA-10 or SA-17 operator dares to flick on their (repaired/replaced) radar.

#4383966 - 10/09/17 07:20 AM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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Interesting edits there Tazz,
Any chance sharing the resulting files (or are they spread all over the folders?)

#4383972 - 10/09/17 09:41 AM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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I could but I did the edits in my save game file itself. It would be better to see how I can edit the actual campaign SAVE template file (which generates the campaign) so that you can set the difficulty levels to your liking and still use the modified order of battle for both sides.

#4384386 - 10/11/17 03:09 PM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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Interesting. Which IF is this? Is there a third IF included here? The 'classic' IF you are referring to i only saw as part of the Strong DPRK theater, and I don't recall them having MiG-19s. Perhaps they do and I forget already?

Swapping out the Tomcats is good, as my experience is they perform quite poorly in the campaign.

Frankly, I feel that the OoB's for all of the BMS campaigns need an overhaul. For example, in the KTO theater, only Tiger Spirit has Eagles, they are absent in Rolling Fire and Iron Fortress for whatever reason. There are lots of similar issues. I thought about taking this on, but have yet to learn MC, and anyway I haven't flown F4 all summer. But thinking of getting back in to it now that winter is coming.


Animals flee this hell, the hardest stones cannot bear it for long. Only men endure
#4384679 - 10/13/17 01:59 AM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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Jason Schneider
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I'm feelin' the need...


[Linked Image]
#4384731 - 10/13/17 12:38 PM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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OK, well you've got me thinking about it. I did buy a second Cougar that I have yet to put through it's paces, so there's that...

Maybe we can get something going again.


Animals flee this hell, the hardest stones cannot bear it for long. Only men endure
#4385016 - 10/14/17 11:23 PM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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Tazz Offline
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Originally Posted by DBond
Interesting. Which IF is this? Is there a third IF included here? The 'classic' IF you are referring to i only saw as part of the Strong DPRK theater, and I don't recall them having MiG-19s. Perhaps they do and I forget already?

Swapping out the Tomcats is good, as my experience is they perform quite poorly in the campaign.

Frankly, I feel that the OoB's for all of the BMS campaigns need an overhaul. For example, in the KTO theater, only Tiger Spirit has Eagles, they are absent in Rolling Fire and Iron Fortress for whatever reason. There are lots of similar issues. I thought about taking this on, but have yet to learn MC, and anyway I haven't flown F4 all summer. But thinking of getting back in to it now that winter is coming.


I'm referring to the Iron Fortress campaign that's part of the "Original Korea Theater" that comes with BMS 4.32.7 - I think it's also included in BMS 4.33.3 but I'm still stuck on 4.32.7 as that supports 32-bit Windows XP.
(Which I need for my SWF22 FLCS and TQS while I'm making very slow progress on converting my other FLC/TQS set to USB ...)

Interestingly enough, I had changed the North Korean SU-27 squadrons into MiG-29A and MiG-23ML squadrons but I still had some "ghost" SU-27s flying around. I think these may have been flights tasked already BEFORE I changed the aircraft types. Now I'm later in Day 1, I no longer see Su-27s flying around. I really should look into how I can edit the Campaign SAVE files themselves (opposed to editing my actual game saves of campaigns already generated) so I can get the proper ORBAT from the very start.

I fully agree with the F-15Cs being missed in most campaigns. In all my campaigns, I always add the Kadena-based 44th FS and 67th FS (under 18th Wing) and quickly move them into the Korean theater.

Personally, I prefer realistic ORBATs over "game balance". Which is why I want my Kadena F-15Cs in the theater alongside my Misawa F-16CJs. And I usually add B-52s later on in the campaign - given them ~48 hours to deploy to Kadena (as we don't have Guam in the map of course).

#4385234 - 10/16/17 12:44 PM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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OK, just trying to understand. There are two Korean theaters in BMS 4.33. Koreean Theater of Operations (KTO) which is default. And Strong DPRK Theater. The classic IF is in the latter. Could it be a 4.32 thing? Were planesets revised for 4.33? That would 'splain it.


Animals flee this hell, the hardest stones cannot bear it for long. Only men endure
#4386084 - 10/21/17 03:25 AM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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I got around to having a look tonight, and in 4.33 at least, there are no MiG-21s in the 'classic' IF (Strong DPRK Theater). Must be a 4.32 thing.


Animals flee this hell, the hardest stones cannot bear it for long. Only men endure
#4387244 - 10/29/17 08:01 PM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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Okay, I may have found something here...

[Linked Image]

So before I add the line I get this when choosing Ace challenge rating -

[Linked Image]

After adding that line, I get this -


[Linked Image]

This was changed in 4.33U2. Adding that line in the .cfg reverts back to the old way.


[Linked Image]
#4387246 - 10/29/17 08:09 PM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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Thank you so much for discovering this. For folks who may not know what this means, this allows us to remove the BMS 4.33 'feature' where challenge rating no longer meant anything. Without this switch, challenge rating has zero effect on strength ratio or force levels. It was a feature of BMS that I really didn't like. In essence, it meant there was no real difference between challenge rating settings other than the probability of being awarded medals, and possibly the effectiveness of the AI, but I have no way to quantify that.

With this change (and I have yet to overcome my excitement and actually try it out), challenge rating will once again see a reduction in Blue strength, and an increase in Red for each increasing step in the rating. The way it used to be when we were growing up biggrin

Awesome find Jason, I had no idea this could be done and I will start a new campaign tonight!

Unfortunately, I cannot know what other things this might affect, as it mentions supply, so what else might we be concerned with?


Animals flee this hell, the hardest stones cannot bear it for long. Only men endure
#4387248 - 10/29/17 08:21 PM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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From what I understood in the change log, the rate of re-supply was changed in favor of force changes. IOW, on Ace, blue would get resupplied less often than red. But I could be wrong as the description was rather vague.


[Linked Image]
#4387276 - 10/30/17 12:29 AM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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OK, after watching the Cowboys win I made the change to the .falconbms.cfg file. To give anyone else who wants to change this an easy copy (this line does not exist by default and needs to be added)

set g_bNewChallengeRatingCode 0

I put it under the Misc section for what it's worth, though it may not matter where it is? Works like a charm. I don't know yet what long term repercussions it will have of course, but as mentioned, this helps puts the challenge back in challenge rating.

With this change, Strength ratios are modified according to your challenge rating. This is how F4 has traditionally been. Ace setting will result in 12 fighters per Blue squadron. I had a look and Red is at 18 for fighter squadrons 14 attack. At the opposite end of the scale (Recruit), Blue have 24 fighters per squadron, Red just 10. So in Rolling Fire fox example, Ace versus Recruit results in a complete reversal of aircraft strength ratio. At Ace Red will have roughly twice as many airframes as Blue at the start. At recruit, Blue will have double.

Also traditionally in F4, challenge rating affected the strength ratio of ground units as well, and after playing for a bit I will know more about that. But if you played Ace in Allied Force for example, you'll know that this makes Blue ground units extremely brittle. It only takes a few losses to go broken.

I felt that in BMS campaigns,winning was a forgone conclusion, classic Iron Fortress the only exception. It's too easy to win air superiority. Playing with the old style challenge rating, a player will need to be much more careful with his aircraft, and if it also affects ground units, even more careful with them. Every campaign requires Blue to eventually advance and capture objectives. If the ground units are part of this change, then ensuring you have the ground strength to actually advance becomes a primary concern. Much more attention needs to be paid to clearing the way and to protecting the grunts. Two full strength armor battalions meeting at Ace would see the Blue unit heading for the rear in minutes.

In the air, a few losses means that squadron is down to a half dozen aircraft. Suddenly you find yourself having the strength to do nothing other than fly CAP, leaving important Red target unscathed. You also find yourself monitoring the next resupply of your fighter squadrons smile


Animals flee this hell, the hardest stones cannot bear it for long. Only men endure
#4387285 - 10/30/17 02:30 AM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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Originally Posted by DBond

I put it under the Misc section for what it's worth, though it may not matter where it is? Works like a charm.


I put it under - Config.exe Settings - so it probably doesn't matter where you put it.


[Linked Image]
#4387341 - 10/30/17 01:34 PM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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I started a new campaign, a KTO Tiger Spirit on Veteran. There's a significant shift in force ratio of course. But in TS it's not as severe as other campaigns. I just wanted to get a feel for the new rules and what better campaign to dip my toes?

One slight change in BMS is that in previous versions of F4, Ace was 12 Blue and 24 Red planes in fighter squadrons. Here, Red is 18. Not a huge difference, but if you project those 6 airframes over 20+ squadrons it adds up. Interestingly, in veteran TS I noticed that DPRK fighter squadrons have 18 aircraft while PRC have 16. Also, while attack squadrons have 14 aircraft (IL-28, SU-25, etc), the A-10 squadron has 20. Nice!

I'm looking forward to my first Ace campaign under the old style challenge rating. Looks like that might happen online. What a trip that's going to be biggrin


Animals flee this hell, the hardest stones cannot bear it for long. Only men endure
#4387393 - 10/30/17 05:46 PM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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Interesting find! Any idea why this change was introduced in the first place?


- Ice
#4387415 - 10/30/17 06:41 PM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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4.33U2 change log goes into it a little bit. They made changes to the supply structure and somehow force ratios became the scarifice.


[Linked Image]
#4387420 - 10/30/17 07:14 PM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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I started a thread at the BMS forum hoping to learn more detail of what changes with this switch.


Animals flee this hell, the hardest stones cannot bear it for long. Only men endure
#4387460 - 10/30/17 11:02 PM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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Glad you did that. I'll go over and check it out, that's for sure.

Way to go schnidrman, for finding this. thumbsup

You know, now that I'm thinking about it, I made an Ace TE a month ago, to practice naval strikes, expecting it to give less fighters in my squad. I wanted less actually and couldn't get it.

I expected to get 12 but got 24. Maybe I will redo it now knowing what's going on.

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