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#4348565 - 04/02/17 03:40 PM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: - Ice]  
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Originally Posted by - Ice
What's a usual SA-10 defense system? Are there other SAM sites with/around it? I don't want to start a campaign for it, but the HARM TE does not have a -10. Any chance you guys can whip up a quick TE? ricnunes?


Hi Ice,

I guess that theOden beat me with a TE scenario. By the way sorry for not having seen these latest set of posts (with you "requesting" a TE with the SA-10) but I've been busy with work.
Actually I'm taking a break from my work and thus I took the opportunity to reply.

Well about the SA-10 (Russian name S-300) yes, it's a very dangerous system since like theOden said when a missile launched at you by this system your RWR won't alert you! This is because the modeled system or the SA-10 missile variant modeled in Falcon BMS uses a guidance system called "Track-via-Missile" or TVM. In real life there are other SA-10 missile variants which uses other guidance systems such as Command-guidance (similar to the SA-2, SA-3, etc...), Semi-active radar homing or SARH (similar to the AIM-7 Sparrow, AA-10, SA-6, etc...) and there's even a missile variant which uses Active radar homing (similar to the AMRAAM or AA-12) - all of these as expected should allow your RWR at some point to give you some sort of a "missile launch warning" .
However for some reason in BMS you only have SA-10 missiles which use the "Track-via-Missile" guidance method. I don't know why, perhaps it was considered to be the more "challenging" (since it's the only variant which doesn't alert a missile launch on the RWR) or perhaps it's the most used variant in real life? Perhaps both?

Anyway, just to give you an idea about how the "Track-via-Missile" guidance works is the following:
- IMO, it seems to be some sort of a combination of the Inertial System similar to the one used for example in the AMRAAM where the missile simply follows a waypoint which should be more or less where the missile should intercept the target (this is what the missile follows for the most part of its flight path). This waypoint is updated/uploaded to the missile (in flight) by the SA-10 ground station from time to time (I believe this time is measured in seconds but I'm not sure). On the final stages of the fight path the missile will use a similar guidance system to the Semi-active radar homing or SARH where the missile follows the reflected radar waves emitted from the SA-10 radar (Flap Lid) which is still in "search mode" and thus not giving any special alert to the target's RWR. Also and since the missile is already very close the target (flying previously thru inertial/waypoint system) there's no need for the SA-10 radar/ground station to change its radar mode (for example to something similar to STT) because the SA-10 missile's seeker will be "sensitive" enough to detect reflected radar waves (even from the SA-10 Radar - Flap Lid - in a "simple" search mode).

The Patriot uses a similar guidance/system. I could be wrong but I think that the Patriot is even more dangerous since based on a few personal experiments it looks like the Patriot is either more "precise" or less vulnerable to opposing ECM, but again I could be wrong. But yes, the SA-10 should be by far the most dangerous SAM threat (at least land based) of all Russian origin equipment.
I found the SA-10 for the first time (in a campaign) in the KTO (default/stock Korea scenario) "Rolling Fire" campaign when Russia and China entered the war (which happens later on this campaign). In this "Rolling Fire" campaign (KTO) North Korea don't have SA-10s BUT Russia and China both have them and you'll find them in missions where the objective is to attack targets inside Russia and China.
By having a quick look at TE, a (one) SA-10 air defence "battalion" (which you can only find under "Soviet" equipment/side) is consisted by the following:
- 4xSA-10 Launchers
- 1xFlap Lid Radar (the search and guidance radar - destroy this and the entire SA-10 Launchers goes "out of action")
- 3xZPU-2 Anti-aircraft guns
- 6xSupport Trucks (with some Russian weird name biggrin )

Finally, my advise to engage these SA-10s is the following:
1- Certify that you have your ECM turned on (and if you're flying for the Americans/South Koreans, certify that you carry an ECM pod on your F-16).
2- If you have standoff (long range) weapons carry and use them and stay afar as possible from the SA-10 missile site. If you have SEAD support let them deal with the SA-10 first and in the meanwhile keep your distance from the SA-10s and fly with them either at your 10 or 2 o'clock (and again with your ECM on) - I found this way that the SA-10 will have a hard time hitting you.
3- If you know the SA-10 position previously and with precision (during the briefing) consider the use of Small Diameter Bombs (SDBs) and together with marking the targets (as waypoint) on the briefing, namely the Flap Lid radar, engage them from afar with the SDBs. HARMs may also be a good alternative but I still haven't used them against SA-10s.

I hope this helps (and sorry for the long post).

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4348606 - 04/02/17 06:28 PM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: ricnunes]  
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Originally Posted by ricnunes
By the way sorry for not having seen these latest set of posts (with you "requesting" a TE with the SA-10) but I've been busy with work.

What a pathetic excuse!!! Don't you know there's a war on?? Pilots are risking and possibly losing their lives and you come here with this "work" malarkey??
biggrin biggrin biggrin

No worries there ricnunes! Unlike DBond, we all have this condition called "real life" and those that are in advanced stages may even exhibit symptoms of "responsibilities." Hehehehe....

Thanks for the info regarding the SA-10. I hope I can try out theOden's TE this evening and see what I can do about that SAM site.


- Ice
#4348644 - 04/02/17 10:07 PM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: - Ice]  
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Originally Posted by - Ice

Unlike DBond, we all have this condition called "real life" and those that are in advanced stages may even exhibit symptoms of "responsibilities." Hehehehe....


Well there's a war on as you said and certain sacrifices must be made. How can I think of work when Red armor is pouring over the line? That seems selfish.


Quick update on my BoP campaign. It's now mid-day Day 3 and Blue is making a amphibious landing at Dubrovnik. This is behind the current Adriatic front near Split, which will trap a good portion of three infantry divisions. We have units in Belgrade, but that isn't the objective. Sarajevo, Tuzla, Mostar and several other cities are. So I expect the campaign to continue on for two more days unless Red get heavily reinforced.


Animals flee this hell, the hardest stones cannot bear it for long. Only men endure
#4348719 - 04/03/17 11:45 AM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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Something's wonky with the amphibious landing. The landing fleet spawned at 0900 on day 3 and began sailing across the Adriatic. They made landfall near Dubrovnik and then turned and sailed back to Italy. But no troops appeared. No Marines storming the beaches and rolling to my objectives.Too bad, as I was counting on that.


Animals flee this hell, the hardest stones cannot bear it for long. Only men endure
#4348786 - 04/03/17 04:29 PM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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Anti-Climax!
biggrin

Maybe they got counter-orders just as they arrived on the beach.

Such details is quite cool though, I tend to focus on my next flight so I miss things like this.

#4348787 - 04/03/17 04:35 PM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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Well, that's what I am for biggrin

I posted about it on the BMS forum, but I get the feeling that Cougar didn't even realize this was in there. It doesn't work right for whatever reason, and he said he will have a look at it

https://www.bmsforum.org/forum/showthread.php?30430-BoP-Amphibious-Landing&p=424439#post424439


Animals flee this hell, the hardest stones cannot bear it for long. Only men endure
#4349057 - 04/04/17 07:30 PM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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Well the landing eventually went off with a pop. A grand total of three (3) Marine battalions showed up southeast of Mostar.

Didn't matter much since the campaign ended later that night on day 4. Inexplicably it put a stalemate in my logbook. at least it now says 3/0/1. The final figure is stalemates, not losses right? Never got either, ever, so not sure which is which. I hope it's a stalemate otherwise I am locked at my current rank foreva. Be careful, because I suppose it could have actually been a loss recorded. That IS a stalemate right? The manual says it is so I think I am fortunate, but it makes me gun shy about completing campaigns in the Balkans theater.


Animals flee this hell, the hardest stones cannot bear it for long. Only men endure
#4349586 - 04/06/17 09:07 PM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: - Ice]  
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Originally Posted by - Ice

No worries there ricnunes! Unlike DBond, we all have this condition called "real life" and those that are in advanced stages may even exhibit symptoms of "responsibilities." Hehehehe....


If I were DBond I would shoot you down "in sight" just for that comment, LoL! biggrin

Yup, real life can really get "in the way" of our hobby. In my personal case life just got busier than usual hence my previous post.


Originally Posted by - Ice

Thanks for the info regarding the SA-10. I hope I can try out theOden's TE this evening and see what I can do about that SAM site.


You're welcome. By the way, how's your "fight" against the SA-10s in theOden's TE?

#4349658 - 04/07/17 09:42 AM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: ricnunes]  
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Originally Posted by ricnunes
If I were DBond I would shoot you down "in sight" just for that comment, LoL! biggrin

He can't because he knows I am a valuable asset! biggrin


Originally Posted by ricnunes
You're welcome. By the way, how's your "fight" against the SA-10s in theOden's TE?

Got a new NVMe drive and put a fresh install of Win10CE on it so still in the process of putting programs back in.


- Ice
#4349673 - 04/07/17 11:46 AM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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It's true. I see Ice as our tech guru. He knows all the gadgets and how to get them working, 'cause he isn't old yet. This is valuable I must admit. So he must be tolerated biggrin


Animals flee this hell, the hardest stones cannot bear it for long. Only men endure
#4349680 - 04/07/17 12:33 PM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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Originally Posted by DBond
So he must be tolerated biggrin

You see those black wires coming out of your HOTAS, DBond? That's what's slowing them down. If you cut those wires, your control inputs are sent to the PC faster. We all know how there's less resistance in the air compared to some solid copper wires. Try it and you'll be impressed! biggrin


- Ice
#4349681 - 04/07/17 12:38 PM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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OK OK let's see here... now I have one wire that's black. And then the one next to it is a bit blacker. Do I cut the blacker one or the one not quite so black?


Animals flee this hell, the hardest stones cannot bear it for long. Only men endure
#4349794 - 04/07/17 10:07 PM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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To be on the safe side, if it's even SLIGHTLY BLACK, go ahead and cut it smile


- Ice
#4383233 - 10/05/17 07:35 AM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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ADA skill and pilot Skill..? Does it affect the points earned on the mission? Or just a challenge rating? I started my first BMS campaign with challenge rating settings - Rookie, ADA and Pilot skill Veteran.

#4383263 - 10/05/17 12:26 PM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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I don't know the answer, but I would assume that settings like yours would earn less points than if both were set to veteran, or more than if both were set to rookie. Essentially, you have a 'custom' challenge rating


Animals flee this hell, the hardest stones cannot bear it for long. Only men endure
#4383291 - 10/05/17 01:58 PM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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I tried an experiment..Start new campaing. Iron Fortress. Challenge rating Cadet and the squadron in Seoul has 18xMig29S. Then I ran the new campaign again. I changed Challenge rating to Ace but in Seoul it was still 18xMig29S. I thought the squadron would have more planes ..My BMS has a bug?

Last edited by Mira73; 10/05/17 01:59 PM.
#4383295 - 10/05/17 02:06 PM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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In BMS challenge rating has no effect on force ratio like other versions of Falcon 4. It is intended.


Animals flee this hell, the hardest stones cannot bear it for long. Only men endure
#4383317 - 10/05/17 04:14 PM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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Does the slider setting in the priorities affect only my squadron or all of the squadrons in my campaign?

#4383320 - 10/05/17 04:32 PM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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PAK sliders affect all Blue squadrons.


Animals flee this hell, the hardest stones cannot bear it for long. Only men endure
#4383323 - 10/05/17 04:48 PM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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And Target and Mission type ?

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