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#4335170 - 02/06/17 09:06 PM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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I've done the first two campaigns, but mostly on an A-G role, and this was when Allied Force first came out. A **LOT** of things have happened since then so when I start again, it may as well be the first time smile Like I said, I usually never bothered with what the ATO generated and only really edited my flight loadout and route to be sure I was safe. Definitely NOTHING about controlling ground troops and also NOTHING about the bigger war picture.

I may take your approach when flying my campaign; document stuff and put it up for scrutiny. Best way to learn, right? Just finishing up the last few touches on my setup and I just might make that happen.



As for She-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed, well, I just stand clear and feed her chocolates and take her for a "walk" on shopping malls so she has come to terms with my hobby. It wasn't like that at first. "Oh, you bought a new game? No, no, go ahead and have fun, enjoy your new game." I would be in the dog house for a week or two biggrin She has since learned that when I say I'm going for a flight, she knows EXACTLY where I am, EXACTLY what I'm doing, and can hear EXACTLY who I talk to and what we talk about. She's had a few friends who are no longer with their husbands/partners because the guy said one thing and did another wink

She now actually likes to talk about how I did with my practice flights.... which usually consists of just doing some A-A refuelling. So when the tanker goes "Contact!", I'll get an echo of "Contact!!" from the next room. biggrin


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#4335196 - 02/06/17 11:49 PM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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Well I hope that if you do start a campaign some of the stuff we've posted here proves useful.

About the ground troops.... in the Tiger Spirit campaign I made extensive use of that feature. If you were following along you know that I was misguided as to the actual BMS objectives until almost day four. Quite frankly I wonder if the AI would have taken them in time without my guidance. You only get five days to complete both Tiger Spirit and Iron Fortress. I'm not confident that campaign would have ended in a victory otherwise.

In this Rolling Fire though I've done it very little, and we've already taken Wonsan on day four. You get all of thirty days! to finish this one. That said I move a lot of air defense units, and I got involved to take all of Kaesong. But otherwise the AI has kept Blue rolling north. Part of it might be that I have been heavy on the interdictions and there has been virtually no actual ground combat so far. So Blue runs in to no resistance and keeps going. God bless the A-10 smile


Animals flee this hell, the hardest stones cannot bear it for long. Only men endure
#4335473 - 02/08/17 12:35 PM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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Today's post was going to cover using Air Mobile missions to transport units. You can use Air Mobile in BMS, but unless I am mistaken you can only lift airborne/special forces. Fair enough. In AF you could put a Patriot battery on four Blackhawks smile

But that is clearly unrealistic and BMS is more restricted.

Victory: The Red Regret

The player is given 30 days to complete Rolling Fire. Sometimes, if you get involved in the campaign planning, things can go a little faster....





Victory on day 4. It ended before I covered everything I wanted to. I didn't expect it to go so well, but it all fell in to place. China and Russia both joined the war in the last 24 hours, which made things a lot more interesting. But not enough and Blue tanks rolled down mainstreet in Pyongyang. I would say that they are now regretting their decision to invade biggrin




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#4335533 - 02/08/17 04:17 PM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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BMS 4.33 Rolling Fire Analysis


As I'm fairly new to BMS, it was an interesting experience playing this campaign. I just want to post some random thoughts and observations about the campaign.

The start is the same as ever. The frontline is along the 38th parallel and the HART line. Rolling Fire is the most plausible of the standard campaigns. It most closely mirrors the situation should war break out today. Tiger Spirit assumes that Blue has already played through a Rolling Fire scenario and made good. Iron Fortress assumes the Red attack in a Rolling Fire scenario was successful in pushing Blue forces back.

I played the KTO theater. OpAir was a fairly pedestrian collection of Red aircraft from previous generations. The most common aircraft are MiG-23, MiG-29A, Su-25, MiG-21, MiG-19, MiG-17 and Mi-8 and MD-500 helos. Lots of helos. The MiG-23s were serious opponents, and I had to be very careful around them. The rest are only dangerous close-in. There is a huge difference in threat level between a Fulcrum-A and a Fulcrum-S. The S is a very dangerous opponent indeed.

China and Russia joining the war ups the ante big time. They bring MiG-31, Su-30, Su-27, MiG-29S, Tu-16 and more. For the record, China joined the war on day 3 at 1815 hours, Russia followed the following morning. Not exactly sure what the triggers are, but clearly taking Wonsan was one, and China joined at the same time Wonsan was captured.

One thing I found interesting about the MiG-23s. On day one they were seemingly everywhere. They were flying mostly out of Hyon-Ni and Wonsan. By day two we had cleared the skies and knocked out a few bases. The MiG-23s disappeared. For good. I didn't see a single MiG-23 after that. Strange.

SAM units seem more crafty than what I had been used to in previous versions of Falcon. They seem to use ambush tactics, but it could be my perception. But there were many times that I was flying along with a dark RWR and suddenly I'm lit up and fired on from a SAM site quite close and well within range. Cool.

Blue Air is about what you might expect. There are no 5th generation jets. You have many F-16s, there were ten squadrons deployed by the time the campaign ended for me. Five Block 52, three Block 40, and one each of 50 and 32. The carrier group arrived on day two and houses F/A-18 C,E and F plus Hawkeyes and Prowlers. Also available are F-5, F-4, F-15E, AH-1, A-10 (god bless 'em) and more. 'Missing' are B-52, F-15C, F-22, F-14, F-117, B-2, AH-64 among others. Interestingly, F-15C, F-117 and B-2 are in Tiger Spirit, but not in RF, or at least by day Four. E-3, E-2 and E-8 are all in as well.

There is a version of the KTO included in BMS with a stronger Red plane set, replacing some of the older aircraft with more modern ones. No changes are made to Blue so it has the effect of significantly narrowing the technological gap.

When China and Russia joined they made an all-out effort to target our carrier group. The ATO did not frag a single mission to CAP the carrier. I guarantee if I hadn't done so we would have lost it. So be sure to do the same if you wish to avoid that fate. F/A-18s are excellent though, and can carry a hell of a lot of missiles. We (virtual) Viper drivers can only be jealous of the loadout they can carry. So whenever possible I fragged F/A-18s to stand CAP 70 miles north of the carrier group, loaded down with slammers. I fragged four-ships and gave them hour-and-a-half vulnerability times. That reduces by triple the number of CAPs needed to frag (default station time is 30 minutes). in order to keep continuous coverage.

A-10 Thunderbolt II. Warthog. The weapon that won the war. These things are Amazing with a capital A. By the end of the war the 25th attack squadron had knocked out about 5000 ground units. Fragging these aircraft to sweep the roads was so effective as to border on the ridiculous. Blue ground was able to roll virtually unhindered by Red ground forces. All aircraft contributed, but the A-10s were the star of the show. Just devastating.

Supply. I talked about it earlier, and perhaps it's just the fact that four days isn't enough to see the effect, but there was no discernible difference in supply, or the supply graphs after having destroyed every single strategic target south of Sinanju. I'll always target these in campaigns I fly, but I wonder if it has any effect at all. If it does, it must be later in the campaign. If a Rolling Fire drags on for 3 weeks maybe the effect would be obvious?

This campaign is still a good one, as it's always been. The Red OoB however, keeps the challenge down to very manageable levels. By the time modern fighters arrive the campaign is as good as won. If you're looking for a stiffer challenge be sure to fly the Strong KTO theater instead.

And I'll throw this out there. I would be very interested in a report or two from a player who runs this campaign and doesn't get involved at all in the planning. He should still fly, and fly well, but I would love to see the difference in results in a completely hands-off KTO Rolling Fire. I know that after reading all of the great tips in this thread that no one will ever fly hands-off again haha, but just in case someone does let me know how it goes.





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#4335762 - 02/09/17 02:16 PM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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First, a couple of corrections, then I want to talk a little bit about the Iron Fortress campaign.

Earlier I said that challenge rating mostly affects force ratios of squadrons, so the higher you set the rating, the fewer planes Blue squadrons will have and conversely the more Red will have. In the past, that is the way it worked. But BMS is different and challenge rating seems to not affect this. Or not so drastically anyway. In AF, Red Viper and original Falcon, Ace rating would mean 12 aircraft in Blue squadrons and 24 in Red. Vet was 18 Blue and whatever the 'normal' setting is was 24.

Another error was that I claimed in Iron Fortress that Red is on the attack. Again, traditionally that has been the case, but in BMS it is different. In the stock KTO IF, Blue is on the attack.

I will make corrections in the earlier posts.

Speaking of Iron Fortress.... this campaign to me was always the true test of Falcon campaign mettle. The most challenging campaign in AF was certainly Ace 2010 Iron Fortress. Blue is really against it. Winning that campaign was the most satisfying. So I was excited to give it a go in BMS.

First time I loaded it up was in the standard KTO theater. I didn't expect to see what I saw. KTO IF in BMS is vastly different. Instead of being pushed back to the Pusan perimeter, Blue hold the entire bottom half of South Korea, giving them west coast bases (Kunsan). In addition, Blue is on the offensive. This isn't Iron Fortress! I played it for a while and came away disappointed. The action was lame. Three hours in and there wasn't a Red plane in the sky. My A-10s were running roughshod. Missions were being fragged to empty locations behind my lines. Frankly, it's a bit of a mess. It's the only time I can remember in 20 years of flying Falcon that I quit a campaign because I didn't like it. I didn't even know that was possible.

I fully support new campaigns of course, I cannot look a gift horse in the mouth. But this isn't Iron Fortress. It should have a different name. Call it Over the Ramparts, Sally Forth or something. Bring back Iron Fortress and have this campaign as an alternative.

I sat back in my chair, and I gotta say I was feeling a bit dejected. I had just finished Tiger Spirit and Rolling Fire. I had saved IF for last. I had been looking forward to it. No F4 campaign is embedded in my psyche quite like IF. And now it was gone. But then...

I decided to switch over to the Strong DPRK theater. I clicked IF and lookee there! It's the old Iron Fortress, with Blue backed in to the corner and Red on the roll. I immediately sat up, perked up and began fragging up. I joined the 80th FS flying good old Block 30s. If Iron Fortress is like it used to be, I'll be needed in the air to fight off the Wall 'O MiGs. Block 30s will do nicely. I added a bunch of Apache and Warthog interdictions along likely avenues of approach, essentially doubled the CAP for the next two hours since I don't trust the program to put up enough, and fragged myself a two-ship zero-time BARCAP.

But I had no idea just how FREAKIN' INSANE things were about to be. I'm serious. Never in all of my time flying this sim have I seen anything like the massive air battle that took place.

You like air-to-air in F4? Fire up a Strong IF and be sure you're airborne near the front by 1000 hours. And then post about what happened. There are Red aircraft everywhere. A nearby SA-10 was lobbing missiles in to the fray. There is no way that what I can write here in this forum could do justice to the sheer weight of insanity.

So if you take me up on this be sure to frag 4X the amount of defensive air that you think is overkill so that you might have a base to come home to. I'm pleased to say that my wingman and I both made it out, but that was surely down to lady luck and the fact that there were so many targets for each side that the enemy's attention just happened to fall elsewhere. So I was only fired on six times.

Sadly, I also got my first Fratricide in BMS. I never want this to happen, and I hoped to avoid it for a long time. But that blot is now on my logbook. I don't think I targeted a friendly. What I think occurred is that I had a slammer in the air before it was autonomous, the target was destroyed by another missile, and the slammer locked on to the next thing it saw, which was a friendly. So sorry old bean. Court Martial. Dammit. Maybe I screwed up. I could be forgiven in that maelstrom. There had to be forty or fifty missiles in the air at any given time. The radio was a constant pitbull, pitbull, pitbull for the 25 minutes I was out there.

It was late at night when I landed from this sortie so I had to shut it down. But Red aircraft are ranging all over Blue airspace. I criminally underestimated the intensity of the Red onslaught and my CAP was blown away. This should be good smile


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#4336091 - 02/10/17 04:49 PM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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Played the Iron Fortress campaign for a few more hours and got a better handle on the situation. Very little has been changed in the BMS Strong DPRK Theater version of IF, and that's a very good thing. The plane set has been significantly altered though. Red has alot of good 3rd/4th generation jets. MiG-23, MiG-27, Su-27/J-11, Su-30, MiG-29A/S. So this theater is much more challenging than the KTO. In addition they have a more modern bomber fleet, including Su-24 Fencers and Tu-16s.

As related, my initial setup was deficient and Red was able to gain superiority over the FLOT in the first two hours. They were able to knock out most of my forward air defenses including the only Patriot battery near Taegu. Ouch. They also hit several army bases, grounding some of my helo squadrons. But my airbases came through unscathed thankfully. With all Blue aircraft shoehorned in to just four bases, losing any one base would be a disaster. To help settle that debt I knocked out the Flap Lid that caused so much grief on the first mission by flying a high show and launching from 30,000 and 50 miles.

As ever, in Iron Fortress the situation on the ground is critical. The Red armor is thisclose to your forward units. I got Apaches, Commanches and 'Hogs off the ground within minutes and we were able to blunt their attack, but there is still a lot of weight behind the leading units so it's far from settled. I said earlier that it would be difficult to lose a F4 campaign, but if it's going to happen, it would be in Iron Fortress. I don't think a hands-off player would have success in this one (at Vet or Ace anyway)

Iron Fortress rocks. This campaign really shows the complexity of the F4 dynamic campaign. Everything is concentrated in to the Pusan perimeter. The density and intensity are very high and it's good fun to fly in this campaign.

This shot shows my landing approach on Kimhae One-Six after the first mission I flew in Iron Fortress. I spent so much time in 'burner that I used up all of my JP-4. Check that fuel gauge. Plenty left smile



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#4336311 - 02/11/17 12:39 PM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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This is what you don't want to see. Red aircraft roaming around your own airspace. I am struggling in this campaign and I'm really trying. We are losing alot of aircraft.




And a shot showing a pair of Vipers, out of spears and heading home.





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#4336422 - 02/11/17 09:24 PM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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I would be fragging some serious DCA. Can't fly jets w/o a runway.

$0.02


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#4336426 - 02/11/17 09:37 PM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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That's just it. I did exactly that. Trust me it was a serious defensive air effort. They've just been wiped out in the screenshot.

The buggers knocked out Taegu. A-10s are based there. Not good. And I don't have any engineers....


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#4338596 - 02/18/17 04:09 PM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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This thread hasn't taken off like I had hoped, but there is still time... smile

I don't want it to die, so I'll keep yapping. Just finished my third campaign (in 3 weeks lol). I've finished a Vet and Ace KTO Tiger Spirit, and a Vet KTO Rolling Fire. The second TS went much faster than the first, ending in victory at 0830 of Day 3.

I started and put on hold a Strong DRPK Ace Iron Fortress, but that one's a #%&*$#. I wasn't exactly losing, but wasn't really winning either. It was sort of even, and I lost a hell of a lot of planes. That's the hardest F4 campaign I've played. Might try again with a lower challenge rating.

Looking at other theaters. Interested in Balkans and Israel for starters. Will be installing the U3 update to BMS this weekend and then will start getting some new theaters.

In the meantime I am playing a Ace KTO Rolling Fire. But a little differently than usual. This one I am playing as a Squadron Commander in honor of my recent promotion to Major. I kinda wanted to stay a Captain. Not a nobody like a Lieutenant and not a D-Bag like a Major lol. And Majors don't command squadrons, Lt. Colonels and Colonels do. But there's a war on don'tcha know?

What this means is that I am in full control of my squadron (Block 40 36th FS, Osan AB, Set by HQ box off), but I am not touching anything else (aside from PAKS and sliders and CCCI missions). Oh my god it's tough. I have to exercise much self-control to keep from getting involved. Red aircraft roaming around knocking out bridges and frontline units. It's so hard to resist! But what is has shown me is that flying campaigns you are fully involved in is much safer than letting the computer run things, that's for sure. Having MiG-29s capping your own base is interesting biggrin


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#4338638 - 02/18/17 07:59 PM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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Originally Posted By: DBond
This thread hasn't taken off like I had hoped, but there is still time... smile

I don't want it to die, so I'll keep yapping.


Be careful what you wish for!! When I start my campaign, I'll be picking your brains a lot, so just be glad I'm not there yet!! biggrin


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#4338728 - 02/19/17 04:09 AM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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Yeah, what's the hold up? At this rate you'll be flying your first campaign mission online with us.


Animals flee this hell, the hardest stones cannot bear it for long. Only men endure
#4346040 - 03/22/17 01:55 PM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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I'm back after a month-long enforced absence due to dead mobo-itis. With the new box back up and purring I finally got around to installing U3 and then downloaded and installed the Balkans theater for BMS 4.33.3

https://www.bmsforum.org/forum/showthread.php?23469-Balkans-Theater-of-Operation-for-BMS-4-33-U3

That's a full installer, which is nice.

If you've flown Allied Force you're probably familiar with this theater (or if you're just not a BMS-noob like me). All three of the campaigns from AF are included. It's a great change of pace from the KTO. The terrain is more interesting and varied. The planeset introduces aircraft you won't find in BMS KTO. Tornados, Galebs, J-22s. In addition, there are aircraft flown by both Blue and Red, such as the MiG-21 which can lead to some interesting situations and adds a twist your situational awareness..

I started off with Balance of Power, which is sort of the Balkans version of Rolling Fire. In BoP, the forces start evenly matched in numbers. Red has much more territory and begins the campaign on the offensive. I cannot say with what aircraft types Red will be reinforced, but at the start the Red OoB is fairly benign. You'll face mostly G-4s, J-22s, MiG-21s and MiG-29As. Fulcrum-As can be dangerous, but they really aren't a match for slammer-loaded Vipers. So it's a relatively survivable theater.

In my campaign I was prosecuting air operations in the Bihac region. The Reds had a very strong concentration of armor and infantry arrayed around the airfield there. While flying a mission in support of this operation I spotted and then took out a SA-6's Straight Flush. These SAM systems I rank second only to the SA-10 in terms of lethality in F4. They are nasty. So while the aircraft you face may not be cutting edge, there is still plenty to get your attention. In addition, there seems to be more varied IR SAM systems, and low level in the Balkans is a very dangerous place indeed.

Unfortunately, it appears that the issues with the ATO properly assigning defensive air coverage still exist. It never worked in AF, and my brief experience with the BMS version shows it appears to still be the case. Unless the player does a ton of fragging here, there will be insufficient or non-existent CAP coverage throughout the theater.

My favorite airfield in all of F4 is in this theater, and that's Split along the Adriatic coast in Croatia. My old wingman Axe and I used to fly in to this field just for the challenge of landing there from the east. If you haven't had the pleasure, you have to try this at least once smile


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#4346070 - 03/22/17 02:59 PM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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Yes, trusty old Balkans.

I just yesterday grabbed a "OMA 3.6" Balkans theater some guys run online on a 24/7 server but after launching 3 attempts only to bump straight back to debriefing I'm going to put that one aside and give this "official" a go.

Balkans is, as you say, rather tough for us mud movers - low level AAA and SAM makes NOE a no go pretty much and my first attempt last time (prev. autumn) flying Danish MLU's down the coast I got slapped in the face by SA-10's flying high. Actually became a bit much for my level so I moved back to Korea.

As I write this I'm downloading the u3 version you linked (hats off for that smile ) and will give this a go again the coming evenings.

Balkans is also where I learned to hate SA-6 systems smile but also got my biggest Falcon moments running away from target area chased by SA-6 missiles (both in AF and BMS). Almost getting pumped up just looking back at those moments haha.

#4346072 - 03/22/17 03:19 PM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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Hey there Oden. Yes, I recommend you give it a go. It's a 1.5 gig download and the installer makes it a snap. We are in agreement then about the low level stuff, it is quite dangerous indeed. I'd be very interested in flying this one online. You mentioned a dedicated campaign server. Is it public? Do you know of any others?

I said in the Odyssey thread that the two weapons systems that have shot me down more than all others combined are the MiG-29S and the SA-6. Man that thing is nasty. It never shows up on JSTARS, and usually doesn't show up on your RWR until it's shooting at you. In the example I related above, I had put so many aircraft in to the Bihac AO that it was lit when I arrived and I fired a HARM that missed and a second that put the light out. Take that you bastage!

Perhaps we can fly together some time? You fly F4 campaigns online, any interest in joining the SimHQ crew when we get this up and running?

Last edited by DBond; 03/22/17 03:37 PM.

Animals flee this hell, the hardest stones cannot bear it for long. Only men endure
#4346102 - 03/22/17 05:01 PM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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We should fly online together, all SimHQ'ers smile
Only but's I have is that I usually get pretty TimeZone'd sitting here in Sveedenland (CET +1) but maybe a late late friday/saturday for me could match you mericans.

the online server I found was in this thread (page 9 is the latest OMA 3.6) https://www.bmsforum.org/forum/showthread.php?26386-Flight-Fence-In-Server-Online-h24/page9

But there is also Falcon-Online with Archer/Magic and folks, really good people (both personas and skillset) but they used to go too much Force-on-Force for a SP flyer like me that at best can stretch to a Coop Online smile
Think I have seen them do coop sessions too lately but I have been all DCS AJS Viggen (being a swede and all, pure christmas party) running Falcon on sparsely selected evening hours.

Let us keep the Coop Online though alive smile

#4346115 - 03/22/17 05:53 PM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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Yes, completely understand if you're in to the Viggen at the moment. If I were Swedish I would be too.


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#4346278 - 03/23/17 01:23 PM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
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A couple of notes about things I said earlier. Split airfield is called Kastela Airport in this version of the Balkans. I didn't fly there yet, as it's too far behind the current front lines. But I did recon it and panned around to the northeast. From that perspective the terrain doesn't look daunting at all. No worse than Kangnung from the west. In AF it was a steep slope you had to drop down to get on the flat bit. Perhaps it will be different in the 3D.

I mentioned that SA-6 doesn't show on the JSTARS. Well, I noticed in this theater there are no JSTARS at all. Maybe as reinforcements later. But none at the outset.

As for my campaign...I've flown a half dozen missions or so, it's about 1600 hours on day one. The Reds have a mass of armor and troops along the FLOT. Especially around Bihac. Once we've broken through there it should be a bit of a blitzkreig toward Mostar and Banja Luka. Without JSTARS I cannot say what is backing up the front line positions, but I cannot imagine that they have much in the way. We shall see.

It's been years since I've played this campaign. Does anyone recall if Blue gets a carrier group in Balance of Power? This is also the campaign that had a US Marine amphibious landing near Mostar in AF. I wonder if this is the same?


Animals flee this hell, the hardest stones cannot bear it for long. Only men endure
#4346424 - 03/23/17 10:00 PM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,528
theOden Offline
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theOden  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,528
Alright, all warmed up with a few TE runs I got myself into a Balkans PowderKeg (easiest) crossing Adriatic Sea from southern Italy into Macedonia just north of Albania.

22nd FS from an airbase I can't for the love of God remember the weird name of.
DEAD mission hunting one of very few known SA-3 Sites.
Got some 10 miles in over Yugoslavia ordering wingman to engage an SA-3 site we need to cross to reach target area and a swift "rejoin" as soon as I heard the Magnum call.

All good.

Suddenly an SA-6 blink on RWR and corresponding alarm.
I bank my block 50 and can easily spot the SA-6 trails, ECM on, Chaff (program 1) and break hard left into missile.


BANG.


Well, that was not a good start.
Not sure why but Balkans really really hates me.

Will retry tomorrow with the help of a few friday beers.

Last edited by theOden; 03/23/17 10:02 PM.
#4346425 - 03/23/17 10:14 PM Re: Falcon 4 Campaigns [Re: DBond]  
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 6,707
DBond Online content
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DBond  Online Content
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 6,707
NooJoyzee
It's those damn Gainfuls! We were just talking about how they suck. They ambush. It's a really difficult missile to defeat. Hard to drag it, hard to evade or spoof. . A seriously tough opponent. As i said that is the ground weapon system that has shot me down most often in my F4 career. No shame in getting hit by one of those. Hope to hear your beer-soaked AAR smile


Animals flee this hell, the hardest stones cannot bear it for long. Only men endure
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