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#4295137 - 09/10/16 09:52 PM Is PC game Thirdwire history?  
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SHar82 Offline
Ol f@rt gamer since Ti99
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No more PC games in the near future?


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#4295241 - 09/11/16 02:59 PM Re: Is PC game Thirdwire history? [Re: SHar82]  
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I think Third Wire is dead as far as PC sims go.


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#4295498 - 09/12/16 02:19 PM Re: Is PC game Thirdwire history? [Re: SHar82]  
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So far PC development goes, yes.

Now if you have an iPad, you're good.


"A little luck & a little government is necessary to get by, but only a fool places his complete trust in either one." - PJ O'Rourke

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#4296589 - 09/16/16 02:23 AM Re: Is PC game Thirdwire history? [Re: SHar82]  
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I believe TK has stated that he intends to develop and release PC versions of his mobile games... and that is about as close to PCs as he will ever come again.

Direct TK quote from Third Wire's Facebook page:
Quote:
We're still making them. But they won't be the same old PC games - not enough people bought our last two for that. They'll be PC versions of the more successful mobile games.

Last edited by streakeagle; 09/16/16 02:31 AM.

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#4313010 - 11/17/16 11:26 PM Re: Is PC game Thirdwire history? [Re: SHar82]  
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Saguanay Offline
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LOL...


PC version of the game ...ON MOBILE!!!!

Converted and released to PC!!!


LOLOLOL


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#4313218 - 11/18/16 03:24 PM Re: Is PC game Thirdwire history? [Re: SHar82]  
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PFunk Offline
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LOL. Yeah, that'll sell even better. screwy


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#4313286 - 11/18/16 07:01 PM Re: Is PC game Thirdwire history? [Re: SHar82]  
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Schwalbe Offline
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Atlantic Fleet?

Last edited by Schwalbe; 11/18/16 07:02 PM.
#4323645 - 12/27/16 01:12 PM Re: Is PC game Thirdwire history? [Re: SHar82]  
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Yup Schwalbe.

We could simply just release it as straight-to-PC port but instead we decided to spend several extra months (over half a year in fact) updating it for PC crowd. Features, engine, assets, you name it. Not that I could see TK doing so in case -if ever- of re-releasing the mobile series on PC, but as you brought up AF I think it was good example that one can make good PC title based on mobile original.

#4323660 - 12/27/16 01:58 PM Re: Is PC game Thirdwire history? [Re: TimeFusedExistence]  
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Originally Posted By: TimeFusedExistence
Yup Schwalbe.

We could simply just release it as straight-to-PC port but instead we decided to spend several extra months (over half a year in fact) updating it for PC crowd. Features, engine, assets, you name it. Not that I could see TK doing so in case -if ever- of re-releasing the mobile series on PC, but as you brought up AF I think it was good example that one can make good PC title based on mobile original.


bah! c'mon Stary. still recognize you :p


ok seriously tho, I only have good words to say about Atlantic Fleet. firstly it's a GREAT game in itself.


next i see it as "combatace home-grown" title. Even better.


furthermore for killerfish games, you are taking a pro stance for modding support. (although i'm not entirely surprised knowing you and julhelm are long time modders) that is very rare nowadayz and how awesome is that.




and yes on this topic i mean to say mobile based game can be good for PC and AF says that.

however, on the subject of TW, it appears most of you don't like TK, somehow. I don't get that. i think as a game dev TK is great.

Last edited by Schwalbe; 12/27/16 02:01 PM.
#4323828 - 12/27/16 09:33 PM Re: Is PC game Thirdwire history? [Re: SHar82]  
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hi Schwalbe! Yeah I am hiding under this silly nick here to avoid being banned from SHQ for like fourth time lol

I don't like to say much about TK now, maybe more in CombatAce circle of friends on FB social media, but for me it boils down to not the fact that he left PC series but mroe like the style in which he did so -no thank you (I am modding SFP1/Wo*/SF2 10 years now, there are modders with almost 14 years of mileage) to modders alas dedicated fans, no announcement in nature of "hey guys thanks but no more PC" etc.

#4323861 - 12/27/16 11:40 PM Re: Is PC game Thirdwire history? [Re: SHar82]  
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Schwalbe Offline
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oh well. surely it's not all bad. at least "a textbook example of something not to do" in future endeavors wink

#4324833 - 12/31/16 10:48 AM Re: Is PC game Thirdwire history? [Re: SHar82]  
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I have nightmares about this. I have had some of the greatest experiences with the Thirdwire series over the past decade plus. Unfortunately the series was not able to keep up with the times, hence the lack of sales. We urgently needed a bit more complexity to handle CCRP bombing, laser guidance and targeting pods, potential for clickable cockpits and framework to allow developers to flesh out custom capability. The biggest omission was the lack of PVE multiplayer with full mission editor.

There are some great effort being put into the old Il-2 1946 code to support more modern aircraft, but nothing will get close to the brilliant range of aircraft, terrains, weapons and all kinds of other additions that modders have been creating for this sim. The modding community deserves a sim that they can invest their time and talent into, and DCS World is not going to be that engine unfortunately as it is a pain to developer for.

I was hoping that TK would be willing to sell/make available the source code to the modders to breathe new life into PC simming (wishful thinking, I know). I can understand TK's frustration. I just find it sad that something with so much potential was left to die on mobile devices.

Maybe someone will someday take Unreal Engine,Unigene or something similar and develop a framework that will support all the mods that have been created for the Thirdwire sims and we can fly these great creations in a modern engine with support for the latest hardware. Maybe they will charge a subscription yearly subscription fee to keep developing the engine to provide multiplayer support, anti-cheating, and above all a modding friendly environment that will not be as stringent as DCS World (SF had the F/A-18 Loooonnnnggg before DCS ever will ;-) )

Here's to dreams and wishful thinking for 2017!

#4324872 - 12/31/16 02:37 PM Re: Is PC game Thirdwire history? [Re: SHar82]  
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Y'all didn't actually see this coming huh?

#4324932 - 12/31/16 06:25 PM Re: Is PC game Thirdwire history? [Re: Warmbrak]  
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Schwalbe Offline
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Originally Posted By: Warmbrak
CCRP bombing, laser guidance and targeting pods, potential for clickable cockpits...


if one wants to have DCS level complexity one only needs to get DCS. actually i recommend Falcon4.0, because for modding it provides even more options than SF as in Falcon you can directly edit 3D models. - it is full on modding world. without those "you can't do this or that" red tape. and you want a group of coders to mod the source code - you got it. and the sim itself as real as complex as it gets.

but for SF TK's direction is to make a sim LITE, and he stayed true to his direction despite what others want. bailing PC market.. heck he's been doing it for 10 long years. there are sim studios that lasted for 3 years, moved on and still made a good impact. i don't see the problem.

Last edited by Schwalbe; 12/31/16 06:26 PM.
#4324972 - 12/31/16 09:44 PM Re: Is PC game Thirdwire history? [Re: SHar82]  
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No problem, simply the perception of wasted potential.


-Sir in case of retreat, were we have to retreat??
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#4325002 - 01/01/17 12:52 AM Re: Is PC game Thirdwire history? [Re: Stratos]  
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Schwalbe Offline
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well TK's been doing it for a decade. if it were me i'd be content. many ppl switch jobs for a tenth of that time:|

#4325035 - 01/01/17 03:45 AM Re: Is PC game Thirdwire history? [Re: SHar82]  
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I do fly Falcon BMS and own the majority of DCS addons (and are current on most of these). I fully understand the difference between "lite" and more serious simulations. Neither DCS world nor Falcon BMS is really that friendly to modders. On the Falcon side we are sitting with code that runs on a single CPU, and is not really future proof. At some point Falcon BMS will need to take a hard look to see how the engine can be swapped out to something more modern. Falcon 4 is not the ideal "beginner" sim, so your slice of the market will be limited.

DCS World. Excellent addons that cater for the "Lite" crowd with the Flaming Cliffs 3 titles, and then the stuff that dreams are made of, all able to exist within the same environment. Creation of new aircraft by the modding community seems to revolve around slapping 3D assets on top of existing flying models (reminds one of Falcon as well right?), but the system is not open for the general modding community to add new aircraft to to DCS World. Only serious third party groups are allowed access to the internals and their work gets audited by ED for compliance (in some form or another) before it sees the light of day.

As Stratos so accurately summarised, it is more an issue of wasted potential. With a little bit more investment, TK could open up the internals of SF, allowing the modding community to breathe new life into it. I have written to TK in the past about CCRP. It is just another bombing mode symbology. The targeting is already there, it just requires different hud cues to release, or a light flashing somewhere, and bam! Level munitions release. Based on the changes we have seen over the years being added to the avionics dll, this should not have been a big deal. I am one of those sods that purchased as much as I could from Thirdwire in support of something that has given me so much joy, but every time I hit that potential ceiling it took the fun out of it.

It was great. It could have been much greater! TK should be content with what he has accomplished, and I am not trying to deride his efforts whatsoever. I would easily pay $100 a year or more for a flightsim that is being kept up to date, is open to modders to create what they want to (aircraft, weapons, terrains, weather, missions, campaigns, objects etc.), and provides an SDK with access to internal references that modders can extend through code and provide custom avionics & features (for those that wanted to).

Of all the sims currently out there, it feels to me that SF was the one to take us there. It is just unfortunate that it is not going where we want it to.

#4325050 - 01/01/17 06:28 AM Re: Is PC game Thirdwire history? [Re: Warmbrak]  
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Schwalbe Offline
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fundamentally you're thinking too much, imo.

Originally Posted By: Warmbrak
I do fly Falcon BMS and own the majority of DCS addons (and are current on most of these). I fully understand the difference between "lite" and more serious simulations. Neither DCS world nor Falcon BMS is really that friendly to modders. On the Falcon side we are sitting with code that runs on a single CPU, and is not really future proof. At some point Falcon BMS will need to take a hard look to see how the engine can be swapped out to something more modern. Falcon 4 is not the ideal "beginner" sim, so your slice of the market will be limited.

uhmm... if FalconBMS isn't friendly to modders, i dunno what is. flight models, skins, 2d database, 3d database, user interface.. everything laid bare. only thing not accessible is the code. anything else is free.
you want complexity. yet you want it beginner friendly. and you want it modder friendly. i mean these 3 things don't usually go hand in hand but rather the opposite.
but yes fundamentally, on thinking too much, ala "BMS will need to..." well, that is BMS's business. neither you nor I have a say in the matter. It is their software and their code and they will have to decide whichever direction to take. just like tk and thirdwire. the thing 'bout you ppl is you have all these demands and yet none of you are in a position to carry them out.

Quote:
As Stratos so accurately summarised, it is more an issue of wasted potential. With a little bit more investment, TK could open up the internals of SF, allowing the modding community to breathe new life into it. I have written to TK in the past about CCRP. It is just another bombing mode symbology. The targeting is already there, it just requires different hud cues to release, or a light flashing somewhere, and bam! Level munitions release. Based on the changes we have seen over the years being added to the avionics dll, this should not have been a big deal. I am one of those sods that purchased as much as I could from Thirdwire in support of something that has given me so much joy, but every time I hit that potential ceiling it took the fun out of it.

It was great. It could have been much greater! TK should be content with what he has accomplished, and I am not trying to deride his efforts whatsoever. I would easily pay $100 a year or more for a flightsim that is being kept up to date, is open to modders to create what they want to (aircraft, weapons, terrains, weather, missions, campaigns, objects etc.), and provides an SDK with access to internal references that modders can extend through code and provide custom avionics & features (for those that wanted to).


an investment from whom.. you? i mean it has happened before, First Eagles was commissioned work right? will you do it then?
also, ppl are still flying mig alley after all these years. Mig alley is wasted potential too, i mean it was also a great sim. Can someone invest a bit to make a mig alley 2.0?
how about jane's f-15/-18? EA kept the source code for like a decade and it never went far from the initial release except TSH's efforts afaik exe hex editing. i hear the SC was finally possessed by a 3rd party.. can some investments be made to that potential?
and how about EECH/AH it seems a few attempts were made to produce a dedicated helo sim but they've not been successful. but what's not great with a helo sim loaded with dynamic campaign, i'm sure it just needs a facelift?
how's about...

we have dozens of sims just lying there await. SF is still new and is still owned by TK. many of the others are not. you want to make an investment, there's more demanding contenders. I don't see ppl complaining over and over, again and again to the extent that we have here, on those wasted potential.

-> therefore, the problem with SF is something else, is my conclusion. namely, my current reckon, TK and his PR/people skills, his handling of the relationship with the modders. and not his work.

The modders are upset and they have a right to be - think i'm getting it from Stary and his modder's point of view. however YOU ppl, the average users, do not. what have you contributed of value to the community, like say Stary and his cockpits, so that the discontinuation of the SF series would do you a disservice? ...but you are just riding the complain train powered by the modders.



as for your "ideal" flight sim, get to any flight sim forum and open a wishlist thread, they are a dime a dozenhundred. people literally want EVERYTHING. i only have one suggestion to these: the Matrix.

Last edited by Schwalbe; 01/01/17 07:10 AM.
#4325103 - 01/01/17 02:29 PM Re: Is PC game Thirdwire history? [Re: SHar82]  
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OK might have been a bit harsh with words:X and it's the New Year and all.. But, my point is this and nothing else, and feel this needs to be said: i don't think TK deserve this.

them thoughts began to form during making the korea mod i think, mostly data stuff, flight models damage models campaign functions etc. iirc TK has a aeronautical engineering degree or something similar so the FM is entirely his work plus the campaign engine and all others. Sometime along the way i got baffled by all them functions in the data and got on the thirdwire bbs in slim hope to find what they mean. But there is TK, taking the time to explain all these functions on the forum in minute detail. TW is a one man team, the code is his property, and he is.. painstakingly.. supporting community modding to such a degree. to me this is a miracle by itself.

I think many ppl in the SF community took this for granted. But if you look around, such a feat is rare. Most small sim studios do not support modding and these stuff like FM, basic game functions are hard coded and locked. Just pop into any titles that is currently selling. I have. Generally they feel modding is a threat to future business. And honestly they're not wrong. That's why developer modding support is rare and far between, let alone small studios that make titles for niche markets.

So TK took the liberal direction, did the hard work for it - just head down into the TW bbs and see for yourself, not the forum politics stuff but the hard evidence themselves - yet the community left behind now wants to stone him and his legacy to death... man. He is basically on our side it is like killing one of the good guys. It's not fair. And I feel by doing this, the modding community is fundamentally contradicting and denying itself. 'tis a very sad affair.

Furthermore, what does this say to future small studios that make sim titles? After seeing something like this do they still feel more inclined to take the direction of community modding? sigh.

Last edited by Schwalbe; 01/01/17 03:14 PM.
#4325237 - 01/02/17 07:03 AM Re: Is PC game Thirdwire history? [Re: SHar82]  
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Yeah mate a bit harsh I will say, but it's new year so Happy New Year!!

TK does not deserve what? We're not attacking TK, simply trying to get more of his products, even nowadays new users go to CombatAce asking what they need to buy in order to run the CA ods, so modders are helping TW selling products. Not everyone has to be a modder in order to help the game grow. I try to help in forums as much as I can, and now starting to mod a terrain in order to add something from my own. BUT...

As I see the situation, we have a problem that I will try to explain here with small tale:

Dad (TK himself) bring us, the kids (all users of his SIMS) to the local WW2 aviation airfield once, (read here European Air War), it was so fun! So immersive, that people still go there after 18 years! Dad is a very dedicated man, he like aviation and we like his products! We're proud of him, as he is one of us! Then he said us that we will go to Disneyland, we all boarded the car and make a 2000 miles drive having lot of fun during the way, several titles, the move to 2nd generation, mods, campaigns, the mission editor, etc... It was amazing, we asked things, he answered, we made mods, asked If we are already there... Then the car broke while we are arriving to Disneyland (see SF2:NA release and poor sales as TK said), we are just at the doors of a fully developed lite sim spanning from WW1 to 2020 and beyond, but we're just outside Disneyland doors, we can see the park but we cannot move inside, dad was so upset that the car broke that locked us inside it, he will not bring us to the park, or tell us how to get there, so we're just sitting there talking about the trip without the oportunity to move it further and enter the park.

That's how I see it.

I'm really thankful to TK, and all his works, I still enjoy EAW from time to time and play SF2 titles daily!! since the day the original title arrived to my home, but we have the right to ask for more content, or the code If that allow for better avionics, or solved bugs, I understand TK decisions, but just don't share them. We have the same right to ask for a new title, new expansion or the source code, as he has the right to say no or just ignore us.

Just my 2 cents. Thanks.

Last edited by Stratos; 01/02/17 07:07 AM. Reason: Added ome ideas.

-Sir in case of retreat, were we have to retreat??
-To the Graveyard!!

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