Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#4323608 - 12/27/16 10:00 AM What OBD will offer in WW2 sim?  
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 592
JimBobb Offline
Member
JimBobb  Offline
Member

Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 592
Now that Team Fusion is making new official content for il-2, what OBD will offer ?

#4323610 - 12/27/16 10:31 AM Re: What OBD will offer in WW2 sim? [Re: JimBobb]  
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 199
Dark_Canuck Offline
Member
Dark_Canuck  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 199
Canada
I imagine an immersive single player experience that is miles ahead of anything currently on the market.


I picked IL2 CLOD up during the sale a few days ago and was once again reminded of how lucky I am that a game like WOFF exists for the Single Player enthuiasts like me.

#4323648 - 12/27/16 01:29 PM Re: What OBD will offer in WW2 sim? [Re: JimBobb]  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,059
Hellshade Offline
Hellshade
Hellshade  Offline
Hellshade
Senior Member

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,059
Florida
One could argue that since IL-2 1946 is out, what is Team Fusion going to offer besides more eye candy with significantly less content. And yet, I think TF will do fine and so will OBD. It's the biggest air war in world history so there's plenty of room for more than a few WWII flight sims. Personally, I'm looking forward to the attention to historical detail and incredible support that OBD has to offer.


Flying Wings Over Flanders Fields Ultimate Edition 4.x
videos at www.youtube.com/hellshade68

System Specs
Click to reveal.. (warning)
Intel i7 6700K OC 4.6 Ghz
Corsair Hydro H60 Liquid Cooler
16 GB Corsair Dominator Platinum DDR4 RAM
2 x EVO 850 1TB SSD Drives (OS & Games)
1 Intel 240GB SSD drive (Scratch drive for videos)
MSI Z170 GAMER M7 Motherboard
EVGA GTX 1080 Founders Edition
Corsair CX850M Power Supply
Acer XB280HK 27" G-SYNC Monitor
Corsair RGB STRAFE MX Silent Keyboard
Windows 10 Home 64 bit

#4323726 - 12/27/16 05:24 PM Re: What OBD will offer in WW2 sim? [Re: Dark_Canuck]  
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,397
Bucksnort Offline
Member
Bucksnort  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,397
USA
Originally Posted By: Dark_Canuck
I imagine an immersive single player experience that is miles ahead of anything currently on the market.

^ This.

And I'm not sure if you have WOFF UE, but it has reached the point of an art form. Its just simply amazing. WOFF UE has better "atmosphere" and is more "alive" than any other flight sim ever created, IMO, civilian or military.

Plus I agree with Hellshade. There is plenty of room for more than one WWII combat flight sim, just like its fun to read more than one book about WWI or WWII aviation.

And from a competitive stand point, OBD excels at something every other publisher seems to avoid: a single player Campaign with a capital "C"

We haven't seen that since IL-2 1946, and WOFF UE blows away 1946 on graphics, so I would think OBD has very good prospects for success with a WWII combat flight sim. And IL-2 1946 has always had good enough graphics that it has never really been replaced by its successors, so the next WWII combat flight sim with modern graphics that shows up with the first significant campaign system since 1946 (like OBD is capable of creating) should do well.

Edit:
Forgot to mention AI. No other combat flight sim has anything close to the enemy AI that WOFF UE has, and in my opinion that statement now includes the AI from BOB II: Wings of Victory (which many simmers regard as the best AI ever created for a combat flight sim). I think WOFF UE is even better.

Last edited by Bucksnort; 12/27/16 05:45 PM.

Dogfighting is what you do "after" you drop your bombs and blow something up!
Can you say "JABO!" thumbsup
#4323727 - 12/27/16 05:33 PM Re: What OBD will offer in WW2 sim? [Re: JimBobb]  
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 181
Buff1 Offline
Member
Buff1  Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 181
Northern New Hampshire, USA
For me, as someone who has long been keeping his IL2 '46 upgraded and updated with the massive modding available, I can say with perhaps more than passing knowledge of IL2 '46, that for all its truly massive amount of planes, skins, maps, options, bells and whistles, it quickly feels stale. Great, but stale... if that makes any sense. There is literally no 'randomness' to the entire package. One flight feels just like every other flight. One fight feels like every other fight. The AI is so simple that even an average sim pilot can become an ace in 2 or 3 missions. Fun perhaps for a novice or occasional player, but not what is needed to satisfy a serious enthusiast for extended periods. It is only the love of the planes and the era that keep me involved.

To me, this is the greatest weakness of so many otherwise excellent 'simulations'... Developers simulate the planes, flight models, weaponry and markings with fantastic exactness. They have graphics and eye candy that captivate you to the enth degree. And that is where the developers stop 'developing'. They are too content with the 'look' and 'technical' aspects of the product. I think the newest iterations of IL2, Battle of Stalingrad and Battle of Moscow are perhaps the greatest examples of what I'm saying. The flight models and planes are incredible. The graphics and scenery stunning. The overall look and feel of the product is mind bending. Yet the total package is about as exciting as solitary confinement!

I think it all comes back to 'randomness' of the action and the critical need for very wide 'variation' of AI activity and skill. PC's and devlopers are on a very high par and together can simulate just about any aspect of armed combat. However, those developers are, with a few notable exceptions such as WOFF, ignoring the aspect of that combat that maintains a long term, high interest level of their customers. The aspect of constant challenge. Or I should say their discerning customers... And therein lies the root issue of sim gaming. To be financially atractive to investors, the games must have significant profit potential through large market share. Joe Average arcade style gamer has no interest in a game for any longer than it takes until the next game hits the market. What are your peers playing and talking about today? Long term playability is not required in mass market products. However, in the gaming world of the serious simmer, this is unaccptable... Or at least should be! The serious simmer knows the difference between an AI that has two defensive and two offensive manuvers which uses them without consideration for the situation or a well crafted AI that challenges the player to not make mistakes or suffer the consequenses. The latter are few and far between.

So again, 'randomness' and 'variation' should be the goal of the serious niche market game developers. Entire flight sim product concepts should be based around the idea that every flight should be somehow varied from the last one. The mission itself can be the same, but some differences must be incorporated... Altitude of the opponents or the direction they approach from. How many opponents are in the sky or when they go on the attack. These may seem like small things, but they are both realistic historically and they provide the gamer with the kind of experience he should have to maintain a long term interest in the product.

The ability to create great looking planes, skins and terrain are now well within reach of the game developers. These parts of the game can now be taken for granted. Design the game and its envirions, the WAY it plays and a very strong AI BEFORE you create the the planes, eye candy and all the parts that merely execute the quality of the less visible, but even more important internal game play and historical immersion.

Rick W

Last edited by Buff1; 12/27/16 06:39 PM.
#4323730 - 12/27/16 05:43 PM Re: What OBD will offer in WW2 sim? [Re: JimBobb]  
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,334
ArisFuser Offline
Member
ArisFuser  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,334
Some VERY interesting points in this thread. Now Il2 BOS and CLOD TF are in the business what will oBD offer? Easy, WOFF UE in the WW2...that means,...well, may the best combat flight sim be in the making as we write wink ?

#4323782 - 12/27/16 07:01 PM Re: What OBD will offer in WW2 sim? [Re: JimBobb]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,209
lederhosen Offline
Member
lederhosen  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,209
Germany
I think it comes down to easy mission building capability with online or coop.
IL246 was/is by far the best for this. And again, its a pitty that its program wasn't seriously used for something like WOFF.


make mistakes and learn from them

I5 4440 3.1Ghz, Asrock B85m Pro3, Gtx 1060 3GB
#4323800 - 12/27/16 07:35 PM Re: What OBD will offer in WW2 sim? [Re: JimBobb]  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,059
Hellshade Offline
Hellshade
Hellshade  Offline
Hellshade
Senior Member

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,059
Florida
Buff and Buck make some wonderful points about the AI. I have said from way back in the first WOFF Beta that the AI alone is worth the price of admission and I still feel that is true. I think too many sims today focus on better graphics shaders and AI feels almost like it was just an afterthought. For me personally, pretty but boring rapidly becomes just "pretty boring." Without white knuckle air combat, it just gets too repetitive and predictable for me.

What I find really interesting is you never know when things will suddenly get even better in WOFF UE. AnKor recently released his gravity effects pilot point of view mod and it has the most wonderful impact on combat, bringing the challenge level up again because aiming is now much more difficult. I expect WOTR to have even greater improvements - and I certainly look forward to having those improvements ported back into WOFF UE.

My credit card is locked and loaded for both sims.


Flying Wings Over Flanders Fields Ultimate Edition 4.x
videos at www.youtube.com/hellshade68

System Specs
Click to reveal.. (warning)
Intel i7 6700K OC 4.6 Ghz
Corsair Hydro H60 Liquid Cooler
16 GB Corsair Dominator Platinum DDR4 RAM
2 x EVO 850 1TB SSD Drives (OS & Games)
1 Intel 240GB SSD drive (Scratch drive for videos)
MSI Z170 GAMER M7 Motherboard
EVGA GTX 1080 Founders Edition
Corsair CX850M Power Supply
Acer XB280HK 27" G-SYNC Monitor
Corsair RGB STRAFE MX Silent Keyboard
Windows 10 Home 64 bit

#4323978 - 12/28/16 03:10 PM Re: What OBD will offer in WW2 sim? [Re: JimBobb]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,708
Hasse Offline
Member
Hasse  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,708
Two things: 1) immersive and historically accurate single player career mode, 2) excellent AI.

Both are seriously lacking in practically every other combat flight sim currently available.


"Upon my word I've had as much excitement on a car as in the air, especially since the R.F.C. have had women drivers."

James McCudden, Five Years in the Royal Flying Corps
#4324015 - 12/28/16 05:24 PM Re: What OBD will offer in WW2 sim? [Re: JimBobb]  
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 17
Manu Offline
Junior Member
Manu  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 17
Bayern
I think BoX and CloD/T are no direct competitors. Those are pure multiplayer sims, not worth an hour to play in single player.
WotR will be a proper SP flight simulation with no real competitors in that niche.

For me as a mostly MP focused player, the most important is the scale. I love multiplayer coop campaigns like SeoW, SoW, Operation Red Flag, and how they are called in various sims..but they all have one huge shortcoming - they can't show aerial (or ground) warfare in proper scale. Sims like BoS or RoF go on their knees when they have to show more then 20 tanks or 12 bombers at once..they mostly look like vast empty landscapes...so there's never a real feel of really being there..
No Sim out there can't/couldn't show a huge formation of B17 escorted by some Lightnings or Mustangs...
That's what i am hoping for in WotR. Now i don't expect a proper scale armada of B17 (500 or more), but i hope for some boxes - maybe 30 bombers or so - i can slice through with my 190 while being hunted by Mustangs. That's what i dream about since flight sims are there.

#4324034 - 12/28/16 06:27 PM Re: What OBD will offer in WW2 sim? [Re: JimBobb]  
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,879
Trooper117 Offline
Hotshot
Trooper117  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,879
UK
We had all better be prepared for the many 'Experten' that will migrate to the forum with their usual demands about fm's etc.
The gentlemanly discussions we usually have from our WWI visitors here will be nothing compared with the gnashing of teeth that seem to abound in all WWII aviation forums, lol!

#4324039 - 12/28/16 06:44 PM Re: What OBD will offer in WW2 sim? [Re: Trooper117]  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,059
Hellshade Offline
Hellshade
Hellshade  Offline
Hellshade
Senior Member

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,059
Florida
Originally Posted By: Trooper117
We had all better be prepared for the many 'Experten' that will migrate to the forum with their usual demands about fm's etc.
The gentlemanly discussions we usually have from our WWI visitors here will be nothing compared with the gnashing of teeth that seem to abound in all WWII aviation forums, lol!


My personal observations (being wholly unscientific) have led to the theory that 95% of the angst and gnashing of teeth comes from competitive multiplayer people who are getting their arses whooped on-line and since it can't possibly be their piloting or shooting skills, it must be the fault of the FM. For that reason alone, I doubt there will be near the FM debates that other sims experience as WOTR will be single player goodness only.


Flying Wings Over Flanders Fields Ultimate Edition 4.x
videos at www.youtube.com/hellshade68

System Specs
Click to reveal.. (warning)
Intel i7 6700K OC 4.6 Ghz
Corsair Hydro H60 Liquid Cooler
16 GB Corsair Dominator Platinum DDR4 RAM
2 x EVO 850 1TB SSD Drives (OS & Games)
1 Intel 240GB SSD drive (Scratch drive for videos)
MSI Z170 GAMER M7 Motherboard
EVGA GTX 1080 Founders Edition
Corsair CX850M Power Supply
Acer XB280HK 27" G-SYNC Monitor
Corsair RGB STRAFE MX Silent Keyboard
Windows 10 Home 64 bit

#4324469 - 12/30/16 02:54 AM Re: What OBD will offer in WW2 sim? [Re: Hasse]  
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 127
Blackard Offline
Member
Blackard  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 127
Originally Posted By: Hasse
Two things: 1) immersive and historically accurate single player career mode, 2) excellent AI.

Both are seriously lacking in practically every other combat flight sim currently available.



Well, I don't say much on forums, but I've been flying since RB1 (I may post more on this one because I've discovered intelligent life here!)


In my humble opinion, Yes, and Yes.


Don't get me wrong, the graphics are amazing (even the clouds), but those two mentioned items in a WWII single player SIM?

It is what I loved about RB. I still have my original long book (Like 215 pages of history and immersion...and I still miss it), and now I have that, superb AI, and graphics.

I also love that I can raise up or dumb down the game depending on my desire for play. Most times I just want to get out there, X12 and fight, but when I have time there is that one pilot and full blown realism (which I suck at btw).

All in all, just cut and paste this game into a WWII sim I think.

#4324478 - 12/30/16 03:20 AM Re: What OBD will offer in WW2 sim? [Re: Trooper117]  
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 127
Blackard Offline
Member
Blackard  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 127
Originally Posted By: Trooper117
We had all better be prepared for the many 'Experten' that will migrate to the forum with their usual demands about fm's etc.
The gentlemanly discussions we usually have from our WWI visitors here will be nothing compared with the gnashing of teeth that seem to abound in all WWII aviation forums, lol!


Well, I've also been playing MMORPGs since before Everquest (was always a guild tank so you can imagine how I fly, or how many enemy rudders I've eaten).

The similarity is akin to those games, where there are those that enjoy what the game has to offer and those that know better then, well, everyone, how to build a game. Everything becomes the developers fault (sort of like the guy that continually buys new golf clubs thinking they will un-suck him)

In the beginning there is actual discussion, enjoyment, appreciation, but as the game grows, the boards tend to devolve into whining, arguments, as the "experts" emerge with all the reasons that the "game is failing".

I scratch my head a lot. I mean, we've gone from "Pong" to this. I've waited a lifetime for it. Most of these games are amazing creations, and this one is sort of the pinnacle, yet there are so many that can't seem to realize that, and rather than enjoy what is offered, rage about every little thing.

I'd love to see this in a WWII sim, but what you mention here is the reason that I usually just read but do not participate on game forums, or just stick to my guild forums.

I tend to think that its a dogfight between instant gratification and maturity.

#4324539 - 12/30/16 11:12 AM Re: What OBD will offer in WW2 sim? [Re: JimBobb]  
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,879
Trooper117 Offline
Hotshot
Trooper117  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,879
UK
Don't get me wrong though, there are some great guys on the WWII forums that I visit, and many are very knowledgeable and have a good attitude when putting forward points of view, or some constructive criticism.
There are however many that can't do that without resorting to personal attacks, or simply appear to turn up just to get a thread locked... it's sad that they resort to those methods frown

#4324544 - 12/30/16 11:33 AM Re: What OBD will offer in WW2 sim? [Re: JimBobb]  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 5,909
Sandbagger Offline
Hotshot
Sandbagger  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 5,909
Coningsby, Lincs, UK
Rest assured guys, Winder, Polovski and me all moderate this forum and that doesn't include the 'admins', who regularly scan the pages.

If a separate OBD forum was to be set up for the next creation, it would be moderated to the same level.


RAF (27 years)
Aerospace Technical Author/Editor (20 years)

Mikes WW1 Aircraft Models
http://igavh2.xara.hosting

Alienware Aurora R5
Windows 10 64 bit
Intel i7-6700K 4.2Ghz (liquid cooled)
Two GTX 1080 Foundations in SLI (8 Gig each)
32 Gig DDR4 2133Mhz
1TB SSD boot drive - 1TB SATA storage drive
5.1 Surround Sound
34" Dell Ultra Sharp U3415W (3440x 2440)
CH Pro-Pedals, Stick and Throttle
TrackIR-5 Pro
#4324546 - 12/30/16 11:39 AM Re: What OBD will offer in WW2 sim? [Re: JimBobb]  
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,800
dutch Offline
Member
dutch  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,800
EURO-zone
If OBD stay away from free to try or free to use, then we also be free from negative, bashing and lunatics, like we did saw on the Rof forum. This kind of give a way does only bring in members who will spoil it for serieus buyers and actual members are leaving.

#4325119 - 01/01/17 04:30 PM Re: What OBD will offer in WW2 sim? [Re: Trooper117]  
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 127
Blackard Offline
Member
Blackard  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 127
Originally Posted By: Trooper117
Don't get me wrong though, there are some great guys on the WWII forums that I visit, and many are very knowledgeable and have a good attitude when putting forward points of view, or some constructive criticism.
There are however many that can't do that without resorting to personal attacks, or simply appear to turn up just to get a thread locked... it's sad that they resort to those methods frown


I hear ya, and agree.

#4325673 - 01/03/17 09:12 PM Re: What OBD will offer in WW2 sim? [Re: JimBobb]  
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,916
carrick58 Offline
Senior Member
carrick58  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,916
reading

I would hope for: Flying Tigers or Burma theater ( Brits) or Guadalcanal ( The Catus A.F. ). North Africa theater. ? A real Big Idea would be a career as a Japanese Pilot from China- The Pacific. However, Whatever OBD decides on. I have my Credit Card Locked and loaded.

pilot

#4325701 - 01/03/17 11:06 PM Re: What OBD will offer in WW2 sim? [Re: JimBobb]  
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,420
Banjoman Offline
Member
Banjoman  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,420
Antigua, Guatemala
Carrick58, I think they are pretty settled on the Western Front.


Member and provider of banjo music for the Illustrious BOC
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Polovski 

Quick Search
Recent Articles
Support SimHQ

If you shop on Amazon use this Amazon link to support SimHQ
.
Social


Recent Topics
CRPGs
by DBond. 07/22/19 03:19 PM
Well Godzilla KOTM didn't do so well:
by NickM. 07/22/19 01:27 PM
New scam
by KraziKanuK. 07/22/19 06:25 AM
Flight yoke question
by SpongeBob55. 07/21/19 09:17 PM
When Not To Use The Video Chat Cat Filter
by Arthonon. 07/21/19 08:28 PM
HBO’s «Chernobyl»
by semmern. 07/20/19 06:15 PM
Spacesuit Article
by Rick_Rawlings. 07/19/19 09:31 PM
Storm Area 51
by Chaz. 07/19/19 08:20 PM
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0