In FLCS that Antena Antena and Range pot' are wired together with buttons due limitations of gameport (2 joystick with 2 axis and 2 buttons each), so the drivers "decode" Range input as digital axis.

F22 PRO "HOTAS use 2 analog axis in joystick, 1 in TQS for throttle axis and 1 reserved for RCS (rudder), so no spare axes.

For the same reason in PFCS the POV HAT is wired in analog axis input, divided by resistors in 4 bands, each one decode as button press by drivers - since the stick grip already use the 4 buttons available in gameport.

For today USB controllers just wire pot' in analog inputs.

Hey guys,
I have read this thread with eager anticipation as I'm a long time Thrustmaster owner/user (all the way back to the first WCS!).

I have had my TM FCLS/TQS shelved for a long time as I could find no way to update them so I could use them in a post XP world. I still have one set setup on an old XP machine for Falcon 4 that I rarely use any more. I started to Play Elite Dangerous and thought "boy, would it be nice to get my FLCS/TQS into the action, but, probably no such luck". I mentioned this on another simpit board I'm part of and someone (Geneb(F15SIM)) directed me to the MMJOY primary thread. That was 87 pages and way too long to try and read so I searched on TQS and found this thread as well as Tazz's thread.

I now have hope that I can get my FLCS/TQS and TM peddles converted to USB and usable in Elite. However, I'm lost on most of what you guys are talking about in these threads. I've never worked with the Arduino boards. I've done electronic repair on some things, built my own computers, done basic soldering, but i'm lost on how to interpret the schematics and diagrams. I hope you guys can help me find where to pick up the knowledge that I need. I know from reading the thread that the FLCS conversion is pretty straight forward Somewhere there's a diagram showing that I only need to connect 4 wires from the joystick handle onto the board. I know that I need resistors. I'll be reading the entire thread again, to try and get my questions lined up.

Kbird, what you have on Page one is a good starting point but I feel there is some basic understanding/knowledge that I'm missing. I don't get the "rows/columns" and why they are necessary or how they function(I think it has something to do with the resistors)...is that a logical design or a physical design.

I'm really looking to just do a basic conversion, no additional buttons. I'm thinking that I want to have the FLCS as a single dedicated unit and the TQS as a single unit. What do I do with the pedals? That has to be the simplest part since int's only a single axis and no buttons.

I'm thinking the card that I need is either the Micro or Micro pro. I know from reading that while the Leonardo will work, it's likely too big. I need some help in understanding what to order and what I need to get started.

Thx guys and great work...thanks for giving me hope that I can finally get my FLCS and TQS back again.

Hi Slarti ,

I am no Expert, but happy to help if I can , the Electronic Experts , are in the MMJoy thread , but I tried to consolidate some of that info in this thread , so it was easier to find.

Did you check out the MMJoy Wiki ? https://github.com/MMjoy/mmjoy_en/wiki

I slowly did my Conversion with the help from the guys on the MMjoy thread, we actually sound like we started in the same place/level of knowledge on this, I was trying to make a thread to put all the info I had found into one place. I now have a 2nd X-Fighter and FLCS and TQS to do a second conversion with , which I think I will leave pretty much Standard , though I may retain the FLCS Pots and use them in a similar fashion as the TQS's RNG and ANT Knobs , which I have trouble with due to a Hand Injury a few years ago and lose of feeling in my left Hand.

Whether you need a Button Matrix will depend on the number of digital inputs you need , you may not need a button Matrix at all if you buy 3 Micro's (or Pro Micro's) and can just connect each buttons directly, ( ie two wires per button) but it's a good idea to use the 1N4148 Diodes regardless , they aren't expensive so no reason not too , to stop possible "ghosting" of the button presses.

Are you getting the TLE-5010 Motion Sensors to replace the FLCS's Axis Pots? probably worth it , I ordered 2 pairs since I had to wait for them to arrive , and had thought I may use the extra 2 in the TQS and pedals but decided to save them for a 2nd Joystick Conversion.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TLE5010-digital-mode-magnetoresistive-angle-sensor/32634095245.html

All the Pots will need 3 wires going forward ie GND/PWR/DATA (aka Wiper) but the GND and PWR can be made "common" to them all , so there is only one wire to 5v on the Board for them all and each Pot Wiper wire goes to a dedicated Axis Pin, which are marked on the MMJoy Board Images (on the Wiki) as AI eg F4,F5,F6,F7. Most Pins are available as digital pins (marked BM) but if using the TLE-5050 some pins are reserved eg B6 for their use.

If you still have some old gameport cables the wires inside them can be reused to replace , lengthen etc existing ones , I redid many in the end as I found the original soldering to be not that great and the wires really thin and breakable. Old LPT Printer cables should work too or old Serial cables even.

you'll need some 6-10ft USB cables too with the appropriate end for the Board chosen and STD USB2 on the other end , or short ones that can be cut and spliced into the Original Gameport Cables which are nice to reuse since they have great strain relief on them where they go into the bases..

Heat shrink of varying sizes for protecting the solder joints ( and a heatgun ....I use my Painter's type variable heat gun and an adapter down to 3/8" (10mm)

an automatic wire stripper is really handy to have - one that can handle 20-30g wires ie electronics sizes , not Mains power gauges.....

A few tac switches to use as Reset buttons is likely a good idea , these can be mounted to perf-board but I used the smaller premade ProtoBoards available for few dollars.

Hope this helps....

KB.

Thanks Kbird. You've probably hit on a lot of my questions....
I'll go read the wiki as I had not read that yet.

"Whether you need a Button Matrix will depend on the number of digital inputs you need..." I have no idea what this means. I can tell you what I think I want. I want all the existing buttons and Axis in the FLCS to work. I'm fine with them being setup as a keyboard button. I don't know what the difference is in a joystick btw and digital input and an analog input.

I'm assuming the 3 micros would be so that each unit (RCS, TQS, FLCS) all had their own board...correct?

Any suggestions on where to get the 3 pro micros? This I think has to be my starting point. Decide on which board and then where to get it from.

Is it better to get the Pro Micro as opposed to the Micro?

I'll need help as to what is what on the board because again, I"m lost, but let me read the wiki first. I was able to follow some of the diagrams, but got lost often because I don't understand why a certain wire goes to a certain spot on the board. I tried to read up some on the Micro, but could not find anything on the pro micro.

.I'm thinking of converting to the motion sensors if that will provide a better steadier joystick. It will depend on how much work it is. If it's basic mechanical, I can do that.

I'll try and catgorize all my questions and put them in some type of logical order. It will proablaby be better discuss one unit at a time, i.e. start with the FLCS and go from there.

Thanks again for the help.

Slarti,

For FLCS you don't need "diode matrix" because the grip has inside a "Shift Register" PCB what make stick conversion very simple, basically fit inside the Arduino board and add the 3rd wire in pontentiometers.

So I suggest start KISS and convert only the stick to learn Arduino/MMjoy2 use, initially using their original potentiometers - wash then inside with Isopropyl Alcohol. After can replace with contact less sensor (TLE5010/11 or GVL223 MagREZ).

If use one Arduino board for joy and another Arduino for TQS easy and speed the conversion.

RCS pedal can use axis from joy Arduino (are 4 not used there), but a dedicate Arduino in pedal make then a standalone unity, and Arduinos are cheap.

TQS require major re-wire inside, and there you can use a "Shift Register" - need assemble PCB (layouts available) or use a "Diode Matrix".

This matrix can use a PCB - eg. breadboard or be a "cobweb" with diodes direct in button/switches pins - what is practical but make difficult "de-bug" a wrong connection.

Hi Slarti ,

Sokol1 pretty much knows all the ins and outs of Joystick Conversions as he has been doing them for years and has a ton of good info (eg above and in other posts,) as he is on many of the other Forums and helped me with my initial questions eg I didn't realise at 1st that with the TQS you basically gut all the existing electronics/pcb and rewire to some degree to make it Arduino compatible.

There were enough Axis Pins on the Leonardo ( Micro has the same I believe) to attach the Rudders to it, but if you may want to use them independently another Board isn't that expensive , I just went the Original way basically cos that's how they have always been. I used a gameport Cable and mounted male and female gameport connectors in the Pedals and TQS , (and wired the TQS one to the Arduino Pins,) so I could disassemble them and not use the pedals if I didn't want to or if I changed them in the future.

Where you buy stuff , depends on how impatient you are and your budget .....you can get Micros for <$5 on AliExpress or you can pay $10-12 and get them on Amazon or at a local electronics store for $20? is my guess. My 1st Micros took 5 months to arrive due to Customs, I had already thought them "lost" , so got and used the Leonardo's instead by then, the flip side was my TLE5010 Boards arrived in about 4 weeks. But I ended up buying an Original Arduino Leonardo locally ($25?) and used it for testing and setup etc while I waited for other stuff to arrive. I haven't ordered anything from China in the last 4-5 months so I am not aware of current shipping times but they were 30-60 days minimum and the Opiod Crisis has really slowed Customs down even more, at least here, so I tend to look for stuff "fulfilled by Amazon" these days , since those items are in Amazon's Warehouses already but People in the US seem to get stuff pretty quickly compared.

The Micro has a few more Pins available than the Pro Micro , either would work but it depends on how many buttons you need/want , as far as Axis's , either has plenty as the TQS and FLCS only have 2-3 each , even after rewiring the TQS RNG and ANT Pots. An important NOTE is you must remove the bare wire connecting the push switch and Pot in the RNG Knob and wire them separately. ALL POTS as mentioned need to be rewired with 3 wires.

The Wiki Board Images are helpful , so save them to your Computer as you need to know the MMjoy Labels and how they correspond to the Arduino Labels , both for Wiring and especially for programming later and setting up MMjoy.

You will need some kind of replacement button for the TQS Eraser Nub and push button as the Nub won't work with the Ardunio, I used the Hat switch out of the X-Fighter Stick I had , since it fit, and I used the white push button's wire to bring power up into the handle for the Pots.

I also moved the FLCS handle to the X-Fighter Base as it has a stiffer Gimbal and a Wider Base.

I used 74HC165 shift register (SR) Chips and ProtoBoard to make more buttons available eg a 12 pole Rotary switch but you may not need that if staying with the Original Buttons only.

These are some other Arduino PinOuts I found online for the Boards :

KB.

Sokol1,
thx for the help.
I agree completely with you. I will do the FLCS first to try and learn. From my reading I understood that the shift register was a great thing, but I thought that was only because it reduced the number of pins. Are you also saying that for the FLCS I don't need to add diodes since it has the Shift Registers?

Potentiometers: I agree here as well. I'll use the existing for now and convert to the motion sensors later. I may get the parts now, but that's work for later. I will get two or three Arduino boards.

Are the "rows and columns" referenced in the docs and other places in this thread the same as the "diode matrix"?

Kbird,
Thx for the info. After reading the thread I figured getting from China, while cheaper, was not an option as it would take too long, so I'll get it from Amazon. These are what I found. Would one be better than the other?

MICRO
3 pieces from Robotdyn. $19.49 Says "compatible with Arduino Micro and Leonardo: Robotdyn 3pcs Micro ATmega32U4

PRO MICRO
KOOKYE 3PCS Pro Micro ATmega32U4 $19.99 KOOKYE 3PCS Pro Micro ATmega32U4 5V...ardo Replace ATmega328 Arduino Pro Mini


What are the TLE5010 boards that you are referencing?

I'll be posting up later today as I have to leave for an appointment now, but I have questions on the pin layout reference that you sent. thx again guys.

Yes, the Shift Register circuit is already installed inside the FLCS grip, so you don't need do nothing there, just connect the 5 wires than came from grip in Arduino board.

Using Shift ReEgister PCB is not need use "Diode Matrix" or vice-versa.



Yes, "rows and "columns" are the two basic itens of a "Diode Matrix".



TLE5010 is a contactless angle sensor (originally for automotive industry), this linked board is this sensor assembled in a PCB ready to use in Arduino MMjoy2.
This Chinese seller send included the needed Neodimium magnets to fix joystick gimbal axes. This magnets movement create a reference for the sensor.

Yes SR's negate the use of Diodes.




Yes, Rows and Columns refer to a Diode Matrix but even buttons wired direct should use a Diode as best practice



You need the 5v/16mhz Version (Not the 3.3v) and the Black RobotDyn ones are the ones I eventually got from China via AliExpress that took 5 months, but they are well made and were recommended to me by Erichos on the main MMJoy Thread. A year ago they were not available on Amazon or fulfilled by them.....locally they are 3 times that price here ie 19.99 each, or double what you linked... the Kookye link doesn't work for me......

for boards and other components like resistors and diodes I have also used these places ( check you are on your country's page/currency US I assume?)

RobotShop https://www.robotshop.com/ca/
and
Universal Solder : https://universal-solder.com/



If you don't click on all the links provided (above) you'll never know.....

a couple of pics to help with the Handle Wiring , if you plan to use TLE 5010 Boards make note of the DATA-Any Pin note as the TLE and SR Board connections CAN NOT be grouped together on the same pin.

KB

I ordered the RobotDyn - 3 PCS - Micro ATmega32U4 (5V, 16MHz). So now comes some of the fun questions.

From what I've read in the thread and the comments you guys have helped with, the FLCS conversion will be comprised of the following physical steps.

Deconstruction:
A. desolder the pots from the existing FLCS board. (existing has 2 wires per each pot)
B. Desolder the 5 wires from the joystick handle from the existing FLCS board.

Reconstruction:
C. Solder the pots (now with 3 wires) to the Arduino board.
C.1. Comment: Based on the advice above, I will be able to use a single combined lead for eachPower (X pot and Y pot) and Grnd (X pot and Y pot). I'll hand draw something later tonight and upload it to mark where I "THINK" these should go.
C.2. Question: The "data" connection for each pot will need to go to the Analog/Axis connection which from the diagrams I have seen are indicated by a AI for Axis Internal. Is this correct?
C.2. Question: If the Axis Internal is for the joystick analog connection, what is the Axis External designation for?
D: Solder the 5 wires from the FLCS handle to the Arduino board
D.1. Question: SolderMOnkey had a diagram of where the 5 wires went on the Leonardo board. All connections , correction 4 of the 5 were in the 6pack of leads called ICSP. Is this the same for the Micro? If yes, the Micro board does not seem to have the labeling that the Leonardo has....This is from Page 3 of this thread:
(NOTE: I tried to insert / copy the image from the thread, but while I can save it locally, I can't seem to embed it...Sorry)
D.2.: Would these instructions from the quick SolderMonkey tutorial work for connections to the Micro board I have coming (his instructions were for attaching to the Micro Pro)?
Wires from the handle:
Green - Ground - to GND on the Arduino
Yellow - Shift Register MISO - to B3/14 on the Arduino
Orange - SPI Clock - to B1/15 on the Arduino
Red - Shift Register Output (CS) - to F7/A0 on the Arduino
Brown - +5v - to VCC on the Arduino
Wires from the pots:
Red - +5v - to VCC on Arduino Black - Ground - to GND on Arduino
Axis input wire from X pot to F4/A3 _____________________ (your colour used here)
Axis Input wire from Y pot to F5/A2 _____________________(your colour used here)

Thanks.

Correct, +5V and Gnd can be shared/chained between the two pot's, simplifying the connection in Arduino side.



Internal mean using Arduino ADC (analog to digital converter) that has 10 bits - 1024 "steeps" on axis of resolution.
External mean using a external ADC, e.g. MCP3208, that has 12 bits - 4096 "steeps" on axis of resolution.

For now use the KISS.



Solder is an option, - if you have good solder skill.

But instead solder wires direct in Arduino pins can solder this wires in PCI header connector female and just plug in Arduino pins.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-PCS-40-P...Female-Pin-Header-Strip-AD-/112176232585

This PCI header connector female match the pins bar used for Arduino. Can do the same with pot wires. This make the assemble more flexible.

But both method are OK.

I agree with Sokol1 about using the Pins and AFAIK they come with the RobotDyn Micros , you just have to solder them in. But you will need a bunch of Dupont Wire Jumpers , 30 cm Male to female work well as you can cut off the end you don't need ( the socket or Pin ) and extend existing wires with them etc. It makes it a easy to correct wiring mistakes or make changes in the future , for example when you get some TLE 5010 Boards.

these are Duponts but all my local stores have them too as does RobotShop , so you can add them to an order of 1N418 Diodes/Assortment of Resistors/Wire/LEDS/Heat Shrink etc if you don't already have them....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/120pcs-30cm-Male-to-Female-DuPont-Wire-Jumper-Cable-For-Arduino-Breadboard-New/112577900218?hash=item1a362a6eba:g:vTcAAOSwjghZycNS

It's pretty easy to make splitters for PWR or GND etc with these too.


The ICSP Header is the same on all boards , it just maybe orientated differently , the white Dot is Pin One , so just rotate the pic below , to figure out the other Pins , which can also be used eg VCC and GND as needed.

VIN in this case will be the same as VCC (5v+) as VIN = the Input Voltage and so in this case will be 5v , same as the PWR into the Board (from the USB Cable) so it can be used for example to Power the Handle which I did.

KB

Thanks Sokol1,
Kbird, did you see my post above?

No idea what you are asking?

BTW you need to "Use Full Editor" at the bottom of the reply window and use the Attachment Manager (bottom left under Post Options) to add pics and Files.

Hey KB,
Sorry about the above post, but somehow I missed your post from last night.

Also, I've been reading up a little bit. From what I've read that ICSP header is for programming the boot loader. Is this the only way to setup the FLCS or can you use other pins on the board. I know that there are multiple 5V power pins and ground pins on the board, which then leaves the Shift Register MISO connection and the SPI clock connection.

Do we have to connect the FLCS this way due to the fact that it has the Shift Registers in it, i.e. if we didn't use the shift registers and when with the diode matrix, would we then not need the SR MISO and SPI Clock connections?

Thx

Almost forgot. Got the three boards on Saturday. Disconnected the handle and pots connections from the FLCS circuit board today. Am debating whether I should wait and order the parts you're suggesting to use the pins for everthing or if I should just solder directly to the board.

Would it be better to wait to upload the MMJoy firmware after I have the pots connection made? Somewhere in this thread I remember KB saying that he had issues with something becasue there were not two AXIS connected and Windows requires to Axis connected.

Thx again for all the help guys!

And on a completely unrelated note...is there any way to setup my preferences so that I get an e-mail when someone replies to this thread? I thought I did that by saying yes to " Should anything added to your Follow Lists be emailed to you" but I'm still not receiving e-mails when someone adds to this thread.

Thx

Sounds like you haven't added this thread to your "Followed Lists" yet under "My Stuff" at the top.

KB.

Slarti said:

Hey KB
Sorry about the above post, but somehow I missed your post from last night.

Also, I've been reading up a little bit. From what I've read that ICSP header is for programming the boot loader. Is this the only way to setup the FLCS or can you use other pins on the board. I know that there are multiple 5V power pins and ground pins on the board, which then leaves the Shift Register MISO connection and the SPI clock connection.

Not only programming/ reinstalling the Ardunio BL ,you are unlikely to ever need to do that, (it is preloaded by RobotDyn) , but it is another reason to use Dupont Wires so you can easily do it if needed without desoldering. Loading the MMjoy Firmware is a different operation and does not need the ICSP header, only a usb cable and the Reset button on the Micro.

Do we have to connect the FLCS this way due to the fact that it has the Shift Registers in it, i.e. if we didn't use the shift registers and when with the diode matrix, would we then not need the SR MISO and SPI Clock connections?

Yes if you reuse the Handle's 3 SR's. No if you don't because each button would be wired direct to the Micro either with a Matrix or individually

Thx

Almost forgot. Got the three boards on Saturday. Disconnected the handle and pots connections from the FLCS circuit board today. Am debating whether I should wait and order the parts you're suggesting to use the pins for everthing or if I should just solder directly to the board.

Wow that was quick...life is great in the USA ............. the pins came with them, didn't they? most of the stuff like that I can get at my local Electronics shop , but of course they are retail and charge twice as much...at least...but I think 20 Duponts was $6 not $2 so the wait isn't worth it if coming from China

Would it be better to wait to upload the MMJoy firmware after I have the pots connection made? Somewhere in this thread I remember KB saying that he had issues with something because there were not two AXIS connected and Windows requires to Axis connected.

Use the 2016-8-18 Firmware , it is currently the one with the least Bugs although there was one newer (2016-18-11?), you can load it to the Micro anytime , if a single tap of the reset button does not work , try a double tap .....have Device Manager Open so you can see it change Ports ( to bootloader mode) and them quickly hit the upload Firmware button in MMjoy , as you only get 8 seconds. Windows requires a Joystick to have two axis so just assign any pin to the axis for X and Y temporarily or if you know you are using F4 and F5 just do that . I was not aware of that requirement when I 1st uploaded the MMJoy Firmware.

.
.
.





See bold answers above....

Russian FIRMWARE page but dates are easy to see....


FIRMWARE DOWNLOADS



KB.

KB,
Thx for the quick reply. I have ordered the DuPonts and will move forward once I get them....and Yea...Amazon is great here in the US. Very fortunate in that regard. It was much cheaper off of ebay, but I don't want to wait 1 to 2 months for the parts.

as for the thread, it was listed in my followed threads section, but when I went in to "edit followed threads" I saw that I didn't have immediate e-mail notification turned on. I don't know how I missed that.

Where are you located. I think that I read that Tazz is located in New Zealand if I remember correctly.

I think my next step while I'm waiting will be to build out the USB cord. I'm going to use the Keyboard cord as you suggested since it's got 5 wires in it and I'll also have the advantage of great strain relief. I've also ordered some perboard for mounting the new Arduino board in the joystick. I also ordered the automatic wire strippers.

Thx again.

You will no use the ICSP connection, but pins for connect FLCS grip on Arduino.

If don't use Shift Register will use other pins, defined to ROWS and COLUMNS, but for FLCS this is bad idea, because requires redone all internals connections of grip using 8x3 or 6x4 matrix (grip require 22 buttons), or will use more wires/connections than the actual 5 of Shift Register. A bad trade.



Load the MMJoy2 firmware first, in this way you assure that have a "joystick controller" ready before start connect axis and buttons.