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#4327038 - 01/09/17 12:29 AM Re: BEWARE buying the MIG-21 [Re: leaf_on_the_wind]  
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sobe Offline
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To all:
I agree that the activation issue is very annoying and why it is not fixed in all this time is beyond my understanding. However, this module only costs $60 or less and the benefits (fun) of flying the Mig 21 out way this issue. What is more annoying to me is that updates to the Mig 21 fix one thing and break other things.

I am a little hesitant about also buying the Viggen, but assuming no new activation issues arise from users who buy this module, I will support Leatherneck and buy it and just hope for the best. I would rather have Leatherneck around than not around.


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#4327099 - 01/09/17 08:15 AM Re: BEWARE buying the MIG-21 [Re: leaf_on_the_wind]  
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leaf_on_the_wind Offline
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I too am hesitant buying the viggen

Mainly because I point blank refuse to buy any more half finished modules

Saying NO to pre-order, when they have something finished that is releatively major bug free would be
a starting point to think about purchasing it

Also having a working activation system (everyone else can seem to get it right? why can't these guys
even acknowledge that there is a n issue with their system?)



Ferengi Rule of acquisition #1 Once you have their money ... never give it back.

#4327177 - 01/09/17 02:32 PM Re: BEWARE buying the MIG-21 [Re: paleohayduke]  
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Originally Posted By: paleohayduke
I've been getting worried about this myself... Getting towards the end of my # of activations.

Dackard already said there is no need to worry
Originally Posted By: Dackard
We readily replace your replenish keys with no questions asked.


Originally Posted By: leafonthewind
Also having a working activation system (everyone else can seem to get it right? why can't these guys
even acknowledge that there is a n issue with their system?)

1) They're not the only one, I've personally had these issues with BST modules, and never with LN's.

2) They have acknowledged it, both in this very thread and on the ED boards: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=136153

3) I find it rather weird that you don't contact the company you have a problem with, but open this thread instead.

#4327181 - 01/09/17 02:44 PM Re: BEWARE buying the MIG-21 [Re: Vaderini]  
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Originally Posted By: Vaderini
..
3) I find it rather weird that you don't contact the company you have a problem with, but open this thread instead.

The censorship you're longing for is right here: https://forums.eagle.ru/
At SimHQ we tend to give eachothers a heads-up on bad experiences without getting silenced.

#4327211 - 01/09/17 03:50 PM Re: BEWARE buying the MIG-21 [Re: leaf_on_the_wind]  
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It takes literally a minute to send an e-mail to Dackard and copy-paste a code from your clipboard. The energy taken to make an issue out of nothing that can be solved within 60 seconds, is just ridiculous.
This guy browses the internet for people that have problems with his products and says that all problems can be solved with a simple e-mail. What more can he do? What more can you want? Him coming to your house and type the key in personally?


I you want to hunt people down with pitch forks, you can apply for a moderator job right here: https://forums.eagle.ru/

#4327212 - 01/09/17 04:00 PM Re: BEWARE buying the MIG-21 [Re: Vaderini]  
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Originally Posted By: Vaderini
..What more can you want?..

Well, for a starter, since you ask, an activation sensity on par with all other modules not having any problems at all?

What makes you think I want to hunt down people with a pitch fork?
Do you think you overreact reading others posts?
Not used to having other opinons around but only happy faces like on that other forum?

#4327219 - 01/09/17 04:13 PM Re: BEWARE buying the MIG-21 [Re: theOden]  
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Vaderini Offline
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Originally Posted By: theOden
Well, for a starter, since you ask, an activation sensity on par with all other modules not having any problems at all?

I've had more problems with BST keys then my LN key. I also remember the 109K and Ultimate Argument campaign had key issues in december 2015...Not to mention the VEAO Hawk....


Quote:
What makes you think I want to hunt down people with a pitch fork?
Do you think you overreact reading others posts?

Because you single out a developer that you can't be singled out.


On the contrary, LN's forthcomingness with their customer support is unique within DCS, and customer support in general. And again, you're ignoring the point: The entire 'problem' is solvable in 60 SECONDS

You're the one that is overreacting, not me.

Quote:
Not used to having other opinons around but only happy faces like on that other forum?

The definition of an opinion is that it is inconclusive, what I've typed is fact. smile

Last edited by Vaderini; 01/09/17 04:14 PM.
#4327252 - 01/09/17 05:30 PM Re: BEWARE buying the MIG-21 [Re: Vaderini]  
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Originally Posted By: Vaderini
And again, you're ignoring the point: The entire 'problem' is solvable in 60 SECONDS


So you're saying...no matter what time of day or night...if you email them for an activation you will get a response in 60 seconds?

Regardless of what that answer is...this is a perfect example of someone so deep in their argument they can't step back and see how ridiculous it is. To have to email a developer and basically ask for "permission" to fly the module you purchased is not how it should be...period.

This has been going on for a long time. They should just fix the problem instead of having a dev on call 24/7 to hand out activations to a problem they created.


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#4327254 - 01/09/17 05:33 PM Re: BEWARE buying the MIG-21 [Re: Vaderini]  
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Originally Posted By: Vaderini
It takes literally a minute to send an e-mail to Dackard and copy-paste a code from your clipboard. The energy taken to make an issue out of nothing that can be solved within 60 seconds, is just ridiculous.
This guy browses the internet for people that have problems with his products and says that all problems can be solved with a simple e-mail. What more can he do? What more can you want? Him coming to your house and type the key in personally?


I you want to hunt people down with pitch forks, you can apply for a moderator job right here: https://forums.eagle.ru/


I cannot tell if you are serious or just tarded

Simple solution would be for them to fix what ever is wrong with their activation system none of the other
modules activation systems are so twitchy/flawed



Ferengi Rule of acquisition #1 Once you have their money ... never give it back.

#4327266 - 01/09/17 05:55 PM Re: BEWARE buying the MIG-21 [Re: Vaderini]  
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Originally Posted By: Vaderini
The entire 'problem' is solvable in 60 SECONDS

Sorry, but the PROBLEM is not solved. Sure, the workaround to the PROBLEM may be easy, but the PROBLEM still exists. "Fixed" and "workaround" are two different things.


- Ice
#4327287 - 01/09/17 06:36 PM Re: BEWARE buying the MIG-21 [Re: leaf_on_the_wind]  
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No, that is not a 'simple solution'.

You have no idea what StarForce is or how software development works.

Starforce is not "their" activation system to fix, nor to adapt, nor to modify.

StarForce is a continuously updated third party DRM tool from a Russian developer that checks multiple times after a program is started if a piece of software is validly licensed. The exact way they do this is not public, but we do know that they not only assign a specific computer ID based on BIOS information and registry keys, but also check the module DLL's while the program is running.

Some info from when VEAO's Starforce was on the fritz:
Originally Posted By: ells228
Its essentially starforce thinking that we're trying to hack the aircraft dll's because of the constant communication between the ASM and EFM interface.

Why aren't other modules affected by this communication?

Originally Posted By: ells228

You can't simply flick a switch and it works.
The coders have to try things to see what happens, which they have been doing. The discussion is about what they've been trying with a solid direction going forward.
No point wasting weeks on something that won't work.

Yes it is unique.
There are two ways for the ASM and EFM to communicate; use default data the sim gives us or calculate accurate data like true air speed etc.
We calculate all EFM to ASM functions dynamically and don't use default sim data.
This gives a more accurate data exchange therefore a more accurate flight model.
But doing that has obviously caused SF to have a hissy fit, nothing we could have predicted.

Why it affects some and not others we don't know.
That's why we asked for your feedback on systems and software.

Both main programmers are here in the UK for the show hence the discussion.


The starforce implementation and constant the fact that the modules are never finished updating, is the reason why pretty much EVERY developer, not just LN, has trouble with the system.

1) Okay, so why does DCS still use Starforce?
Try to find a pirated version of DCS. Not succesful? Yeah, that's because it doesn't exist. It's not perfect, but no piracy is a strong incentive for a company to proceed with finicky software. To overcome a lot of the issues, ED has taken over as much registration and activition tasks from the end consumer as possible with the Module Manager and profile key binds, but again: it still isn't perfect.

2) Why doesn't LN change it's implementation of Starforce?
They have chosen a certain implementation because it worked during testing. After completion, it's damned hard to change something that hard coded without breaking something else or the working of the entire module for everyone. So what they did is changed some tweakable aspects of the DRM, and ease the pain of as many customers as possible.

3) Why is LN the only one with this issue?
They're not, it's a DCS-wide issue with all devs (inlcuding ED) suffering. There is just no way to actively test all BIOS systems, settings and options for all PC's ever made. Even settings within Windows themselves have led to Starforce problems for the end users (and the reason why some people need to format their HDD after buying their first modules, it's just a very aggressive DRM)

And by the way, I've seen that you not only started this thread, but have been whining and failing for a good year already. Perhaps it is time to take responsibility for yourself, e-mail Dackard to ask for a new key or just continue life since with all this laziness and bullsht on your end you don't do yourself nor anyone else any favors.


@Ice: Problem: My key acts funny. Solution: 60 seconds and you get a new key within 48 hours, no questions asked.

Again, what do YOU suggest? WHAT do they have to do?

Don't you think that if it was solvable, they wouldn't have done it already? Wouldn't that just save a godamount of time and stress for them? If your key fails multiple times in a row, you need to sent an e-mail for a new key and with 24-48 hours you receive your new key.

Last edited by Vaderini; 01/09/17 06:44 PM.
#4327293 - 01/09/17 06:51 PM Re: BEWARE buying the MIG-21 [Re: leaf_on_the_wind]  
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I got it and find it a fun plane to fly. Like everything in DCS it is not working correctly like training programs and such

#4327294 - 01/09/17 06:51 PM Re: BEWARE buying the MIG-21 [Re: leaf_on_the_wind]  
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Vaderini, I take it you work in software then ?

So there is no solution that LN can find , check

You suggest a work around and call it a solution, check

Question if everyone suffers from this issue, how come only the MIG-21 keeps screwing up its activation status ?

"We calculate all EFM to ASM functions dynamically and don't use default sim data."
So they made a design decision that has left the MIG-21 with this problem ?



Ferengi Rule of acquisition #1 Once you have their money ... never give it back.

#4327301 - 01/09/17 07:05 PM Re: BEWARE buying the MIG-21 [Re: leaf_on_the_wind]  
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Vaderini Offline
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*sigh* I give up

#4327303 - 01/09/17 07:14 PM Re: BEWARE buying the MIG-21 [Re: Vaderini]  
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Originally Posted By: Vaderini
No, that is not a 'simple solution'.

You have no idea what StarForce is or how software development works.

Starforce is not "their" activation system to fix, nor to adapt, nor to modify.

We do NOT need to know how StarForce works. We do NOT need to know how it's the greatest thing ever since sliced bread. We do NOT need to know how many virgins have to be sacrificed on a daily/weekly/monthly basis for it to continue working.

Fact is that the MiG-21 module has this problem CONSTANTLY.
Fact is that while other modules may have this problem too, it's occassional and rare enough not to be a worry.
Why is one DRM working fine (say 90% working) for most modules but is abysmally broken (say 20% working) on this module?


Originally Posted By: Vaderini
@Ice: Problem: My key acts funny. Solution: 60 seconds and you get a new key within 48 hours, no questions asked.

1. Is it ONE key per request? Or do they give you the full 10 keys per request? Heck, while this issue is ongoing, why not just give everyone who owns the module 1,000 keys?
2. It is a workaround. Problem still persists. If your car was running funny, but all you had to do was pump the clutch 3x and it'll run fine for the next few miles before needing the "workaround," would you be happy? Or would you get your car fixed as soon as possible?


Originally Posted By: Vaderini
Again, what do YOU suggest? WHAT do they have to do?

Fix it.


Originally Posted By: Vaderini
Don't you think that if it was solvable, they wouldn't have done it already? Wouldn't that just save a godamount of time and stress for them? If your key fails multiple times in a row, you need to sent an e-mail for a new key and with 24-48 hours you receive your new key.

Maybe it's solvable, they've not just gotten around to it? You talk as if they've set a team on this issue that have been working 24/7 since the issue arose and thus far have not found a solution. I doubt this is the case, more likely they've looked at it, classed it as a low priority issue, and dealt with other things.

Again, while a workaround exists, there should be NO NEED for the workaround. Having to send an email to ask for new keys, while a low-effort exercise, is something a legit owner of the module SHOULD NOT have to do.

You harp about piracy, but at this point, it's really only the legit customers that get the bother.


- Ice
#4327371 - 01/09/17 09:39 PM Re: BEWARE buying the MIG-21 [Re: leaf_on_the_wind]  
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It's really a simple question:

Is the use of Starforce costing them more sales than the ones they would lose to piracy with a less aggressive system?

Obviously, they think the answer is no.
However, it's hard to prove a negative. Just because X number of people say they would've bought it without but refuse to buy it as is does not prove they would have done so.
Likewise, they cannot prove how many people would've pirated the software that have chosen to purchase instead. Would some people who have not bought them pirated it if they could? Certainly, but how many? Would some who did buy have chosen not to pay? Certainly, but how many?

We can't prove it one way or another, only use similar cases as data to make the decision. At this point, I think it safe to say ED isn't giving up on SF anytime soon.




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#4327373 - 01/09/17 09:46 PM Re: BEWARE buying the MIG-21 [Re: Vaderini]  
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Originally Posted By: Vaderini
On the contrary, LN's forthcomingness with their customer support is unique within DCS, and customer support in general. And again, you're ignoring the point: The entire 'problem' is solvable in 60 SECONDS


Yet some people have had to wait 3-4 days to get their email returned.

Don't get me wrong, it's good that Cobra will respond in this manner but it really shouldn't be on him to have to provide a 'fix' like this. Customers should also not have to wait to be able to play the module they have already paid for.



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#4327453 - 01/10/17 01:28 AM Re: BEWARE buying the MIG-21 [Re: leaf_on_the_wind]  
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I wonder how many people with activation problems still have them after installing on a reformatted computer or if they were buy first install it today? I'm not trying to blame anyone who has an older install which spanned the change of activation methods (I am in that group) for not reformatting or buying so early. However I did have an activation problem where basically the old-way and new-way kept fighting each other. It took a very specific and delicate registry entry manual edit to fix. I would wager $5 that those that are having activation issues like I was are those whose install spanned the change of activation method like mine did.

Other keys were stored in HKCU\Software\Eagle Dynamics
But I think this used to be HKLM instead of HKCU
The new LNS location is HKLM\Software\Leatherneck Simulations\

Interesting enough not all 3rd parties have left the Eagle Dynamics folder. E.g. my M2000C and HAWK keys are in with the 1st party ones.

Taking inventory of my registry entries not all keys have the same features. A lot of them are very plain having only the folder Keys\License0.

Others have more "intrigue" to them. Black Shark has Keys\Settings\Protection\Gui and HAWK has Keys\Settings\Binding\Hardware\AutoActivation. UH1H has this Settings\Binding\AutoActivation as well. For some reason my Warhog has License0 and License1 along with the settings/binding/hardware/autoactivation part.

I'm curious:
1. Do people with problems have a MiG-21 entry in their Eagle Dynamics section.
2. Have a complex or simple registry layout in their registry folder for MiG-21 (I have simple).


I also found I have several keys in HKEY_USERS\S-1-5....long string of numbers\Software\Eagle Dynamics\... It seems a carbon copy of my HKCU arrangement.

I take note that LNS is unique in using the HKLM part of the registry instead of HKCU.

#4327491 - 01/10/17 03:53 AM Re: BEWARE buying the MIG-21 [Re: leaf_on_the_wind]  
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What a great multirole aircraft this is. Sure, the activation issue.... I have not lost access to it. But it does require you to activate it once in a while. I still would not give up this aircraft for anything.


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#4327655 - 01/10/17 06:15 PM Re: BEWARE buying the MIG-21 [Re: Frederf]  
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Originally Posted By: Frederf

I'm curious:
1. Do people with problems have a MiG-21 entry in their Eagle Dynamics section.
2. Have a complex or simple registry layout in their registry folder for MiG-21 (I have simple).


Be curious NO MORE

1. HKCU\Software\Eagle Dynamics
Nope no MIG-21 Entry or Leatherneck Simulations within that branch
it is located
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Leatherneck Simulations\DCS:MiG-21 BiS

2. What do you mean exactly ????
Can you define what simple is?



Ferengi Rule of acquisition #1 Once you have their money ... never give it back.

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