LOL, I was in college when Wolf3D came out, and I have fond memories of LAN parties playing Doom and Heretic in my later years there.

We used to connect using dinosaurs to carry hand-written packets of 0's and 1's.



The Jedi Master

Heheh Jedi I think we lived through similar prehistoric LAN experiences in college lol.

Ice I'll have to give those standing VR games a try this weekend, I got my touch controllers a week ago but am moving houses so have barely had a chance to install the extra sensor and try them, just tried Google Earth VR and that is awesome!

I mainly got VR to use seated in cockpit sims (P3D, ED, racing sims) the standing VR games were not really something I was looking forward to but Google Earth VR standing up was really cool so I'm definitely interested to try more room space VR stuff.

Like I said, seated cockpit sims probably won't be the main use of VR for me at the moment, so the room-size capability of the Vive gives it the advantage.

I'll admit, I went Rift for seated cockpit sims first, then the design of the Touch controllers even though they sure took their sweet time releasing these things! At least these controllers are just as ergonomic as expected, and I get nice analog sticks instead of trackpads to move around with.

But I've also found that with two sensors in opposing corners like one would set up the Vive, there are imperfections to the tracking of the Touch controllers, particularly if I do things like hold them together like I would a rifle and wave them around where only one camera can see them instead of both. Occlusion is a problem.

The Vive may fare better, but I figure that it's more due to the arrangement of that "donut" on the end of each wand and its ability to see the projected lasers from all angles. Even then, it's still line-of-sight-based, so I still expect occlusion to be a problem in the same instances. At least Oculus gives you the option for more sensors should you need them.

Further testing will require someone to drop an extra $160 into my pocket so I can order two more sensors. (Yes, TWO more sensors. I have a feeling that in a 3-sensor setup, the corner without a sensor is going to suffer regardless.)

Assuming the Vive does have more reliable tracking, it would be the more cost-effective way to go - but that's a very big assumption on something I haven't tried. Rest assured that if I get to demo one, I'll scrutinize it just as hard as I do my Rift + Touch setup for tracking errors.

All in all, though, I'd probably prefer the Oculus Touch controller design, but with Valve Lighthouse tracking. Too bad one can't have both in the same package, though the next-gen SteamVR controllers look really promising.

How could I test this "occlusion" problem? The guy at the local Curry's is still there so I could go and have a test. I've already "tried" the Vive twice, once to see the screendoor effect and test out the fit, the second time to test out the "limits" of being able to move around.

Well, the easiest way to test is to hold the controllers close together, like you're bringing your hands together, perhaps wave 'em in front of each other while you've got your back turned to one Lighthouse station so only one of them can see the wands. Then you just watch to see if the tracking visibly bugs out on you. You'll know when it happens pretty easily, as it throws your aim completely off and breaks immersion.

You might also want to hold one controller in front of the other, as if you were holding a rifle, and see how reliably it tracks when only one Lighthouse station is in view of the wands' sensors, and for that matter, try picking up objects right off the floor.

Remember, occlusion is simply a matter of the sensors having their line-of-sight blocked off. The question is how easily that can be done in the course of normal gameplay.

By the way, I've done some further research on the Oculus forums, and some of the threads I've read suggest that the handoff between their sensor cameras isn't as smooth as it should be at the moment. I hope they fix that soon.

By contrast, the Vive's tracking has no real "handoff" to deal with because the HMD and controllers themselves are looking for the base stations' IR sweeps, which are identical as far as the IR photoreceptors are concerned.

Hmmm... on my two occassions I was able to test the Vive, the setup was with on sensor 45 degrees in front of me to my right and another 45 degrees behind me (225 degrees if front is 0 degrees) to my left, basically on opposing corners. I did play by bringing the "gun" up to sight it; maybe next time I'll turn my body 45 degrees and "hide" the "gun" in front of me so that only one sensor can see it. I have seen some "rifle" contraptions on eBay designed to take the Vive controllers, so that's an interesting mod.

So basically just try out the controllers while doing my best to obscure one of the sensors, swapping controllers between my hands, and making a "rifle" to see if there's any loss of tracking?

Yeah, try doing things like occluding one controller in front of the other and so forth in ways you might do during normal gameplay.

Also test the tracking near floor level; this is surprisingly critical given how often VR games will expect you to be able to pick up something off the floor, or to be able to aim around while you're crouching or even prone. (Yes, some Onward players actually do go prone if the space permits it.)

And in other news, I found out with a bit more sensor wrangling that a two-sensor Rift setup is indeed limited by camera distance before tracking starts to crap out on you. Guess I'll find out later how much additional sensors improve that.

No options to test drive yet.
But find this fascinating.

Fuzzy

Was able to give the Rift a go earlier today, but only for a short while. I'll be visiting the store again soon. My impressions: The touch controllers are cool but I couldn't test their accuracy. Their demo has me flinging fireballs so the "accuracy" was all about my hand movement rather than "precision aiming" with a gun like I did with the Vive controllers and Brookhaven Experiment. I asked the guy if he had that game so I can demo it on the Rift... nope and he can't install it because "he's not allowed to." Weaksauce on the excuses.

I do like the fact that the controllers can sense whether I'm holding it or not and being able to "point" was cool. The vibration feedback was nice too, but didn't have enough for me to really tell if it made a good difference.

The headset wasn't what I expected though. I had my glasses on and it was difficult getting the Rift on with my glasses on my head. I had to play WITHOUT my glasses. The weird thing was that the whole experience was then out of focus, like I needed my glasses. But I'm short-sighted; I figured with the screen just a few inches from my face, I should have no problems but I did and the whole experience wasn't enjoyable. The demo guy said I had to find a "sweet spot" and move the headset up/down to find a "focus point" but that made absolutely no sense whatsoever. Another issue with the headset was comfort; the Vive felt more snug. Third issue was the nosegap. I didn't have the issue with the Vive or if I did, I never noticed it. With the Rift, it was there straight away, very noticeable without even trying.

Earphones -- not impressed by it as well... maybe the guy just didn't have his volume turned up or what, but I had a better experience with the "razer" headphones on the Vive demo.


I'll have to give the Rift another try with my contacts on; luckily, in that store, ther Rift and the Vive have demo booths close together. The Vive has "room-space" allocated to it while the Rift only has a small 3ft-by-3ft corner. I guess that's saying something.

I'm fortunate enough to use contact lenses, otherwise the Rift would be a real pain. They don't even provide an alternate facial interface to use if you have glasses like the Vive does, and the Vive also has a hidden eye-to-lens distance adjustment that you can fiddle with by pulling out the knobs on the side that seem to hold the straps in place.

The fact that the Rift's out of focus as a result isn't too surprising when it's set up for infinity focus, much like real life. It's just too bad they didn't go the extra mile with that distance adjustment, seeing as the Gear VR allows this and I can use that comfortably even without my contacts, so long as I move the focus dial all the way in the other direction. (For the record, I'm -4.00 nearsighted.)

I actually find the default supraaural Rift headphones uncomfortably loud at anything more than 20% volume in most cases, but I'm also not using it in the middle of a noisy store, which would ruthlessly reveal the lack of isolation they have compared to the IEMs you get with the Vive. In any case, they're removable should you wish to use your own headphones, but that also entails an inconvenient two-cable setup when one cable can already be irksome enough for room-scale usage.

Regarding focusing on the Rift, there's a dedicated screen for that within the menu you get by hitting the Oculus button on the right Touch controller (or the Xbox Guide button with a gamepad). It'll show a green crosshair with multiple horizontal and vertical lines alongside your current FOV, and it really helps with dialing in your view just right.

The reason they advise shifting the whole headset up or down to get the focus correct has to do with its peculiar "hybrid Fresnel" lenses; they're actually thicker toward the top than the bottom, and changing your eye level across its irregular surface helps you get into that sweet spot.

The nosegap is indeed noticeable, and jarringly so compared to my Gear VR. However, I've come to rely on it somewhat as a view to the outside world, since the Rift lacks a passthrough camera like both the Gear VR and Vive. If anything, I actually wish the nose gap was a bit wider around the base of the facial interface, as it keeps hitting the sides of my nostrils when not sitting just right - something that has never happened with the Gear VR, and which can be distracting enough for me to start fidgeting with the Rift's fit. This thing really needs more facial interface options, and yes, the whole plastic frame that the foam's attached to just pulls out of the main HMD, allowing for replacement.

Also, I can tell that you were playing The Unspoken if you were flinging fireballs as the default Anarchist class. That won't be as rough a test of the tracking capabilities as it would be if you were playing the Kineticist class, where the main offensive spell is more point-and-shoot like a gun; then again, if you wanted gunplay, you probably would've played Dead and Buried instead. That game's a real test for tracking low and close to the floor, since you'll be ducking behind cover a lot.

Fit-wise, that's heavily YMMV on both headsets, I'm sure, depending on how you've got the straps set up. What I really want to know is if the Vive is really as distractingly front-heavy as some users claim it is, since the Rift is remarkably light and well-balanced. I'm sure the rigid straps that cup the base of the wearer's skull help a lot with that.

It's a shame that Oculus isn't showing off what their three-sensor room-scale setup can do; it leads to a lot of perceived disadvantages and unfair comparisons, and in my experience, even your typical Oculus Touch-exclusive title benefits a lot by having a 6ftx6ft or greater space.

However, that third camera is pretty much mandatory if these videos are any indication:

One of the reasons I went with the Vive was being aware it was more suitable for using with glasses. That said I still prefer to use it with contacts, even just for the sake of putting on and off.

I remember reading the optics of the Rift focus at something like 1.2-1.3m. Not quite infinity but obviously enough to mean short-sighted people can't manage without correction. Had no idea the Gear VR was adjustable in that respect.

Interesting reading.

Hard to fathom why they have not provided an easy-to-use "focus adjustment" on a several hundred dollar premium visual device -- or an easy to use solution for "eyeglass wearers". Heck, many of us have eyes that don't focus perfectly.

Thanks for the info, NamelessPFG!

I was able to demo both the Vive and the Rift yesterday while wearing contact lenses and I had my son demo both as well wearing his glasses. I figured out that "focus" problem on the Rift and it was indeed just moving the headset up/down to find a sweet spot. I could move the headset down a centimeter or so and it would get blurry, then up again and things would be clear. My son had the same experience. Whatever the cause may be, it's annoying and it's not present on the Vive or if it is, we've never encountered it.

I was also able to confirm the nosegap issue with the Rift. When I tried the Vive, I also noticed a nosegap but it was much smaller and I really had to focus to see it and it was hard to see out of it. The Rift, on the other hand, had a gap that was plain to see, and was so prominent I could use it to orient myself how far away I was from the wall.

I'm not sure if it's the demo guys just being unfamiliar with their demo gear, but the Rift seemed to be funny on my head whereas the Vive was a more snug and comfy fit. Maybe the facepads had something to do with it as well?

As for display tracking, the Rift setup had two sensors facing me and my movement in comparison to the "person's" movement in-game in the Unspoken wasn't very good. I turned around and "cuddled" the touch controllers and I got a warning on the screen about tracking. In comparison, when I demo'd the Vive, I could face one sensor, have my back fully to the other, cuddle the controllers in front of me, and the tracking remains constant. I also tried to "pick up" something off the floor and still good. I tried "The Lab" and went for the archery bit and moving around my "tower" felt very accurate and natural and when I "look over" the edge to aim at an enemy, the resulting movement I "see" from the movement I physically make is very accurate which helps just pull me in immersion-wise.

I was able to demo the Zombie Training game on the Vive and realized that the Vive controllers could vibrate a bit as well (can this be adjusted in settings somewhere??) so my only real issue with the Vive controllers is the fact that the "handle" buttons are a bit too far around for my hand to trigger comfortably; I find I have to adjust my grip slightly in order to access these buttons.

ps. Nameless, the Rift demo PC only had 4 games I could try... the fireball-slinging one, the drawing one, a wall-climbing one, and a basketball one. No guns or anything, and when asked if they could download the Brookhaven experiment so I can compare apples-to-apples, I was told they aren't allowed to do so. Same excuse when I ask the Vive guy about downloading Elite Dangerous or DCS.

Well, boxing day brought about another £100 discount on the Vive so I absolutely had no choice but to get it... then spent a load of money on Steam to grab some games! Perfect timing with the Steam sales as well!

Picked up:
theBlu
Vanishing Realms
Fruit Ninja VR
The Lab (free)
The Brookhaven Experiment
Virtual Desktop
Tilt Brush
Space Pirate Trainer

I should also have Zombie Training Simulator and The Gallery - Episode 1: Call of the Starseed once I figure out how to claim these games from Vive. I already have Elite Dangerous, DCS, Falcon 4 BMS, and Project Cars, but these games need my simpit to work properly and at the moment, I've just set up the Vive in the living room.

Again, the Vive continues to impress. The nosegap is a very small issue, I have to concentrate and squint to see it. If I have both eyes open and I'm looking at the "screen," I have absolutely no idea it's there at all. The tracking for the controllers is very precise and it's difficult to get them to go wonky. I've had a good go at The Brookhaven Experiement and it is quite a fun game; I never understood all the statements about "sweating into the face foam" of the Vive, but after an extended play session, I totally get it. I'm also not sure whether it's the room or my PC or just because I am up and about and doing a physical activity, but I get warm pretty quick when playing. I normally have a few layers on to be comfortably warm at home, but when playing, my attire is just a shirt and shorts and I'm good.

My eldest son has had a few demos with the Rift and Vive when we were deciding which one to get but my youngest hasn't had a go at all, some sort of "minimum age" requirement to demo the things. I wonder if this has any health reasons? Or just "we can't trust expensive hardware to such youngsters"?? Anyway, I let my little one have a go with The Lab and played a few games (Slingshot, Longbow, Xortex); he loved it. He even tried the mountain experience in Postcards and tried to dangle his feet off the edge of the cliffs. Watching him experience the VR in wonder makes the purchase worth it. So did watching the wife scream her head off in The Brookhaven Experiment

Congrats on picking up the Vive.

I've read that VR goggles shouldn't be used for extended periods by those under the age of 13, although I wonder if the PSVR will change the common thinking on that, but when my 9 and 12 year olds use VR I try to keep it to a few minutes at a time just in case.

Hehehe... thanks! I'm just glad it went on sale; I'd have gotten it even if it WASN'T on sale but at least I was able to put that £100 (or part of it) into games.

My boys don't really play for very long; my little one just plays some of the shooter games (Space Pirate, Longbow, etc.) or Fruit Ninja and that's it.

Just tried Google Earth VR.



One thing I don't understand though... it renders my area VERY well; the hospital I work at is frickin' awesome; I can even tell cars from pickups from buses on some places... it renders the nearby city very well too, and the university located there looks spot on... but when I go to the nearby airport, it's flat as a pancake. Why? What causes some places to render and not others? Okay, maybe my area is a bit obscure... but why will it render my neighborhood but not the airport? I went and decided to check out the pyramids.... and while the landscape changes elevations a bit, the pyramids are not rendered at all. WHY??? It can render my local hospital with impressive accuracy but it won't render the pyramids? I went to the Statue of Liberty in New York and that was rendered quite well, so why some places and not others?

Yeah I think somehow it mixes the satellite data with streetview data, maybe the hospital didn't allow the google streetview car to come by?

The area I currently live is has the 3D render data, but where I am moving it's more rural and so most of the buildings only show as 2D but even the it's a blast to view it in VR and with the human scale option on.

This has been one of my favorite VR apps, and there's not even an official Oculus support yet, I'm using it with the Fakevive hack to make it see the Oculus Touch controllers as Vive controllers.

Oh no, the hopsital is rendered properly. It's the more "popular" sites like Giza that I'm wondering why it's not been rendered properly. Also not sure about the need for the google streetview car; it renders parts of the hospital that are not accessible on street view and when visiting London, you can get "inside" some buildings that should not be viewable from the street. As for the local airport, it is accessible via steetview as well so why is it not rendered??