I for one, found this a very interesting link. Some of it was new to me.

WWI Historical Facts

Shooting down MvR: "Credit is officially given to Canadian fighter pilot Captain Arthur Roy Brown, but some eyewitness accounts and modern forensics dispute that claim."

"Some." Is that Canadian for "every"?

#6. The Wipers Times is a decent flick...caught it on Netflix recently.

Modern theory due to the angle of the bullet etc tend to credit an Australian machine gun team. It is also reckoned that the powers that be would prefer him to be shot down by a zobbit even if he was a Canadian. Being shot down by an Ozzie Sergeant was not good for the newspapers.

Regarding the death of Richtofen I think modern concensus is that Popkin (Aussie machine gunner) got the kill.

I was more impressed that the Wipers news paper could publish such ibformation in a time when such content would normally be supressed by the brass.

For me, until they prove Manfred didn't roll, yaw or manoeuvre the aircraft for a moment as he was hit we'll never know if the bullet was from the ground or not? It's easy to roll even slightly and change angles of bullet entry. The Aussie ground gunner is the most likely, but it is not 100% proven.

He DID maneuver when hit--by the ground fire. Every eyewitness talked about.

Brown attacked once and then flew away, never to return; MvR kept flying. I opine MvR likely never even knew Brown was there, based on the angle of Brown's attack and that MvR did *nothing*--he just kept flying after May. Didn't disengage, didn't evade, didn't pursue Brown. Nothing. The other two instances of MvR being shot down (March and July 1917) he immediately disengaged when he realized he was being attacked (March) or wounded (July). He didn't just do nothing and carry on a pursuit. And for those who believe that on 21 April MvR was "suffereing the effects of his head wound" nine months earlier and this "caused" him to continue the pursuit of May, you need to read my recent books.

But, succinctly: Brown attacked from MvR's left. The bullet's entrance wound, regardless of wound path, was on MvR's right. Case closed on Brown's involvement.

This is the first time I've heard that term. What is a "zobbit"?


edit - Well, I found this explanation online:

Zobbit probably comes from the arabic dhaabit (dh is "voiced" th, as in "then") meaning officer. Could have become current in inter-war Mesopotamia, where many RAF were stationed.

I learn something new every day.

I believe it was originally RN slang, like a lot of RAF slang. I first heard it from matelots on 360 Squadron which was a combined RAF/RN electronic jamming squadron at RAF Cottesmore. This was in 1968. Often shortened to 'zobs'. Denigatory of course which is why it was so popular among us erks. RAF slang was an art form in itself, though not normally as shown by the Monty Python skit

Every ground trade had its name from 'plumber' for Armaments to 'rigger' for, er riggers actually Airframes. I was a 'greaser' or 'oiler' from the fact that old engines were very oily. The latest slang for my trade is 'sooty' but that was after my time.

The funniest job description was a 'poodle pusher' - take a guess at that one!

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Jim, I haven't heard that term since my time in the USAF over in England back in the mid-1970s, and it was applied to our own SP canine handlers as well as yours. As for zobbit and/or zob, it was definitely in use when I was there.

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