Demo'd the thing on the local Curry's outlet yesterday and while I've successfully managed to convince myself not to get one, it's getting harder and harder now. First, there was a "sale" in which I could've bought the Vive and have it come out of my salary on a monthly thing. Next, there's this sale which returns it to pre-Brexit prices (around £650-660). I always promised myself to skip the 1st gen and just buy when the 2nd gen comes out....

When I tried it yesterday, it was comfortable and the fit was perfect. I was expecting some problems with the nose area and having light seep through, but there was nothing. I **DID** notice the screendoor effect straight away, but then I learned to focus "further out" and I did not notice it much after that. The picture was still grainy but acceptable. I demo'd the Brookhaven Experiment and while I'm no good with shooter games, I thoroughly enjoyed this. It was like Time Crisis, but better. I know I can't use the Vive with BMS, and I'm not interested enough in DCS to be using it there, but I know I can use it with Elite Dangerous and maybe even XP10/XP11....

Good thing the demo dude wasn't at the stall when I dropped by again today. I wanted to try out the edge sensors or whatever they're called and how the front camera was supposed to stop me from walking into things. I need to research when the 2nd gen is supposed to come out; I need strength to continue resisting.... HELP!!!!

It doesn't help at all that the wife keeps asking "shall we go 'round and get it then?"

If its any "help", I made myself the similar promise. I DEFINITELY don't want to see even a "slightly grainy" picture for the price being asked. I want perfection -- and am willing to wait until it arrives.

At that, I may settle for something with less features -- but not less picture quality. Basically, I want 1440p equivalent per eye (I may have to wait a while -- a long while).

But, have fun with whatever you wind up with. Its neat that your wife approves

See, that's the thing. I noticed the screendoor effect straight away, but then it was never an issue after that. Just like having bezels on a 3-screen setup. Sure, they're there, but once you start playing, you don't notice them or work around them.

I wish this thing isn't in the state it's in now. Maybe more lag. Or less accurate controls. But no. Tracking was precise, the hand controllers were excellent... if I'm to fault anything, it's just really the lower resolutions. I wish it was more expensive, or that I have a weaker PC setup. Then I'll have more reasons to say no. The wife's approval doesn't help the dilemma at all!

It's probably a physiological thing. Depending on your eyes, you may have difficulty focusing on what's supposed to be "out there" if there is something your eyes perceive as closer in the way.

Some people look through a dirty window and see the outside looking a bit fuzzy.
Others will only be able to see the dirt and will be literally unable to focus on what is beyond.

It's not a choice, it's a manifestation of how their eyes work.



The Jedi Master

The only thing I'd say is that many people I know rate the Vive as more of a gimmick or tech demonstrator. For anyone that primarily uses a seated position for the games the majority of people seem to rate the Oculus for a bigger sweet spot and much more comfortable to wear.

I'd strongly recommend trying DCS out with an Oculus......definitely a game changer. I can't use a normal monitor now as it feels like a game again instead of being sat in the cockpit.

Well, I don't think there's an Oculus for demo nearby.

One thing about the Vive, or VR as they are now... I have to consider that I won't be getting them for simming. At least not primarily so. I'll probably try the Vive in BMS and DCS, just to see how they work, but even if it worked in BMS, I don't think I can abandon my touchscreen setup just yet. So it'll be primarily for playing VR games.

As for the Vive being a gimmick, well, it's very good at doing what it does. I was seriously impressed by the controllers. Rift doesn't have that (yet), so I can't see how "gimmick or tech demo" is a negative.

As mentioned, VR is definitely a game changer for seated simulations like flight sims (DCS/P3D/XP10, EliteDangerous) and racing sims (AC, iRacing, pCARS), once you experience those in VR it's hard to go back to 2D. Now that I've driven the virtual Nordschleife in VR with all the altitude and cambered corners which makes it such a legend in real life, it's hard to go back to driving the "flat" 2D version in sims that don't support VR.

I definitely can notice the grain but just like when my motorcycle helmet visor gets squished bug marks on a long ride, at first you notice it but your brain eventually tunes it out... the main part where you notice it is when you try to read detailed stuff at distance, sort of like when we all had 800x600 monitors, you have to wait until the bogey gets closer to make them out or to read writing on signs etc.

The Rift Touch controllers come out next week by the way (12/6):
https://www.amazon.com/Oculus-Touch-Pc/dp/B01BHMS88A

Well, Rift + Controllers = more expensive than the Vive, right?

As for seated simulations, I don't contest that VR makes it more awesome. However, for combat flight sims especially like BMS where a lot of time is spent on "cockpit work," I simply cannot go back to mouse-clicking. Until there's a way to interact with switches WITHOUT having to keep your head steady and clicking on it with the mouse (or pointer), I'll stick to my touchscreens.

My flight sim career has slowly declined over the years which is a shame as it was my first love. I've tried several times to get back into it recently.I even bought a new TrackIR 5 a few months ago and was on the verge of buying a new Thrustmaster HOTAS (the T16000m FCS).

I did consider a Rift for simming for the 'ultimate immersion' factor but for the same reasons you state Ice,I'm reluctant to make such an investment. I would need to try one out and not just for 5 mins either.

One thing that occurs to me.With my TrackIR I can check my six etc by using small head movements but with VR am I going to have to turn my head right around to do the same?

My neighbour has a Vive and he did say I could try it but he doesn't play flight sims and that's what I need to play to determine if it's for me.Such decisions...

Does your neighbor mind if I try out his Vive?

Firstly, I would expect "check six" in VR would really be you twisting around to check your six. It is a 1:1 movement, unlike TIR which amplifies your head movement so that 30-40 degrees of actual head movement equals around 160-170 degrees of in-game head movement.

Second, aside from having to do "cockpit work," there's also the nature of scribbled-down notes on a kneepad. If we could have a "mixed reality" that incorporates the game world but can also display your physical pit in that game world, that would be me running to buy a VR headset.

Here in the US, they are the same price:

Vive (includes controllers) = $799

Rift $599 (includes XB1 controller) + Rift Touch Controllers $200 = $799

For seated sims (flight and racing) you don't even need the Touch controllers, so in that case the Rift is the cheaper option.

Well, with the Rift controllers out, it seems that it's now possible to make a comparison.... Some people say the Rift is the winner, but I can't see why this is so simply because the Vive is optimized for moving about in a room; the Rift can do so but is less capable than the Vive. For simmers and car sim racers, I can see how this is a moot point; heck, they didn't have to wait for the rift controllers anyway. But to "share the awesomeness" of VR, the room-scale games is the best way to do so, right?

You should try both and decide which one meets your needs better.

For me the benefit of Oculus was lower entry fee and better optimized for sims like FSX/P3D/X-Plane where framerate might be a problem thanks to the ASW feature:
https://developer3.oculus.com/documentation/pcsdk/latest/concepts/asynchronous-spacewarp/

Vive had the controllers and the room presence as the benefits.

Now Oculus also has the controllers and room presense and Vive is working on an ASW like feature.

I'm glad that they are competing with each other and pushing the envelope, VR as a whole benefits that way, as a simmer I wish I could play everything via VR now, it's hard to go back to 2D.

Interesting.

ASW?

As for the ability to work in a room, IIRC, the Rift with two sensors is inferior to the Vive with two sensors. While I appreciate the idea of the Rift being better for flight sims, I would not expect that to be the primary or even majority of the use for VR, at least in my household. I play too much BMS and need my touchscreens, so the Vive will be for room-based games and maybe the occasional foray into Elite Dangerous. I also have pCars but not set up my pit for driving yet.

Antisubmarine warfare, of course!
Not sure VR would make staring at sonar screens better, though...



The Jedi Master

Are you speaking from experience on the Vive versus Oculus and room presence or from reading internet fanboys defend their purchase decisions online?

From my reading they are pretty on par if the sensors are mounted at the same place... and there's always the options to add more sensors for those that have room size issues.


Personally I own an Oculus now but I just care about best bang for the buck and might go Vive or even some as of yet unknown headset for next gen if it kicks butt, so not really picking sides.

If you have the Vive and pCARS, definitely give it a try, I think once you try a racing sim in VR and experience the corner elevations and banking, especially at tracks like Nordscheife or Spa or Brands Hatch, it's really hard to go back to flat 2D racing after that... I think VR has ruined RaceRoomRacingExperience for me which was a favorite but has no VR, thankfully I have pCars, AssettoCorsa, Dirt, iRacing which do support it

The Vive has had asynchronous reprojection, which is the same thing, since late October. It required nvidia hardware at the time, and possibly Windows 10. Dunno if either case has changed.

Yeah that was my point, Vive came out with great controllers and Oculus had to match it, then Oculus came out with great software to handle low framerate motion sickness and Vive matched it... win win and makes both systems great for everyone, despite what the fanboys from either side would want people to believe about their purchase choice being better.

I have tried the Vive but not the Oculus. As for the room experience, I am speaking from reviews. While you are correct that there is the option to add more sensors, that simply raises the Rift's price tag to get to the performance that the Vive already has out-of-the-box.

Unless I am grossly mistaken, the impression I get from reviews is that the Rift and Vive are roughly on-par with regards to display, some prefer one over the other. The touch controllers are roughly on-par as well; namely they are both excellent. The advantage of the Vive over the Rift is the room-size tracking; the Rift can do it with the two sensors.... but not as good as the Vive. You'd need 3 or more for the Rift. Am I mistaken here? Is there an advantage that the Rift has that I'm not aware of? I know of the Rift's earphones but that's not a factor for me as I already have headphones that I use for gaming.



I'm not much of a first-person or twitch shooter, I used to play CS when I was in High School and a few years afterwards but I'm not really a fan of it now. I do like arcade shooters like Time Crisis.... and playing The Brookhaven Experiment blew my mind away, for the game itself, the controller accuraccy, and the comfort and "natural" feel of the headset. This is funny as I've seen videos of the game and I've seen videos of people playing the game, but they do nothing in comparison to actually playing the game myself.