Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Hop To
Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4
#4367332 - 07/03/17 07:14 PM Re: VR Support [Re: Stickshaker]  
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 182
Stickshaker Offline
Member
Stickshaker  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 182
Netherlands
Hello Runzel,
I am very glad for you. It must be breathtaking to fly over the trenches in VR.
Unfortunately I have a Rift. If you know a way to make your solution work in the Rift, please let us know. FlyingMonkey already pointed at the differences between the Rift and the Vive.
Would there be software to make the Rift think it is a Vive?
Best regards,
Stickshaker

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4367337 - 07/03/17 07:45 PM Re: VR Support [Re: Stickshaker]  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,043
Steve_F Online cool
Senior Member
Steve_F  Online Cool
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,043
London, England
StickShaker
Vorpx does the same thing for the Rift.
I tried Vorpx on my DK2 last year and managed to get 2D working in VR with using Opentrack for head tracking.

Open track was a bit hit and miss for me with the need to centre often. Which also was quite nauseating. Add to that the lack of 3D and I soon binned it.

But it seems some progress is being made here and we may have an agreeable setup for RoF, especially if we can get 3D implemented with TriDef or ReShade

#4367344 - 07/03/17 08:19 PM Re: VR Support [Re: Stickshaker]  
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 10
Runzel Offline
Junior Member
Runzel  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 10
Originally Posted by Stickshaker
Hello Runzel,
I am very glad for you. It must be breathtaking to fly over the trenches in VR.
Unfortunately I have a Rift. If you know a way to make your solution work in the Rift, please let us know. FlyingMonkey already pointed at the differences between the Rift and the Vive.
Would there be software to make the Rift think it is a Vive?
Best regards,
Stickshaker


Hello Stickshaker,

As far as i know you can use Bigscreen beta and opentrack with the Rift too (Both is free. So you can simply try without worries).
My solution is not a big deal and easily achieved with the Rift as well i guess. You will just need different settings for the Rift. I am sure you can figure something out.
I posted it on the ROF discussion board

https://riseofflight.com/forum/topic/50785-rof-vive-you-got-try/

The thread i posted on the ROF board is not 100 % up to date.
I recently managed to get even better results when i fake that i rotate my 3 screens 90 degree to the side, then enable Nvidia surround, then start Bigscreen to emulate the 3 rotated screens into 1 giant (not rotated) screen.

Fake rotate means i just click in the menu that i want to rotate them, so everything is displayed on its side. I dont rotate the screens in real. You can use Monitor Profile Switcher for that. Then it is just a button press to rotate them or to set it back to default.

Now in cockpit view i have nearly no distortion to the sides. Before that, the view was kind of warped (everything seemed bigger) far left and right. And perfect view over the cockpit into the sky. FOV got a massive boost.
It is simply a huge screen that is bent around me and i got super accurate headtracking. It is however NOT VR. But still it is by far the best experience i ever got with ROF. But that is just me. Others tend to disagree on that matter. Try for yourself!

#4367373 - 07/04/17 03:19 AM Re: VR Support [Re: Stickshaker]  
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 553
FlyingMonkey Offline
Member
FlyingMonkey  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 553
Down under in Adelaide
Displaying ROF on a virtual screen in VR is definitely something I'll use for the time being. I had decent results doing that with WOFF and using BigScreen. The case of WOFF I also got Tridef 3D to work, so the screen is in 3D.

My issue with ROF is that on Bigscreen head tracking looks smooth and responsive enough, but if you look well enough you might see that there is a tiny bit of lag and that there is a tiny bit of stutter - now if you use Vorpx to wrap the image around you whole view this is enough to make the whole experience uncomfortable. I'm planning to give a go at another method, which is Reshade + stereo3D and distortion shaders, then displayed straight to HMD using steamVR non direct mode. In theory this might work better as long as I can keep 90fps going (async timewarp won't help here because openTrack has the head tracking working at the same fps as the game), which might be a bit of a challenge.

I'll post an update here when I test that. Meanwhile I also have detailed everything I tested so far in a thread called "WOFF and Reshade" in the WOFF forum. The more it goes and the more I'm convinced it will be worth developing something specific to connect RoF/WOFF to openVR, but that's not something I can start working on for a few months.

#4367395 - 07/04/17 11:37 AM Re: VR Support [Re: Stickshaker]  
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 10
Runzel Offline
Junior Member
Runzel  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 10
I got it working in 3d using Reshade and the SuperDepth3d.fx shader, just like Flying Monkey explains in the WOFF forum.
In Bigscreen i enable Side by Side 3d and it is good to go.

However the result is lacking.
The performance drops to 50 fps and the headtracking does indeed stutter. And there is nearly no advantage in playing with the 3d setup. All the edges look rougher, reading text is more difficult and the gain in depth perception is minimal. It is like the fake 3d used in televisons. It gives a slight impression of depth, but comes with the disadvantage of loosing image quality. I havent tried different settings, so maybe there is room for improvement.

But for the time being i will stick with the Bigscreen, Opentrack, 2d-setting. With that setup i do not experience stutter or anything laggy with the headtracking as far as i can tell.

#4367464 - 07/04/17 05:47 PM Re: VR Support [Re: Stickshaker]  
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 182
Stickshaker Offline
Member
Stickshaker  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 182
Netherlands
Hello Runzel and FlyingMonkey,
Thank you so much for all this advice! There is light at the end of the tunnel. I am certainly going to try this all out! It may not be perfect but I can live with the image not being 3D. I will let you know the results but it may take a while due to my unfamiliarity with the software that you mention.
Best regards,
Stickshaker

#4367703 - 07/06/17 03:42 AM Re: VR Support [Re: Stickshaker]  
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 553
FlyingMonkey Offline
Member
FlyingMonkey  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 553
Down under in Adelaide
Thanks for info Runzel. The depth3D shaders can yield very different results depending on the game - for some the rendition of depth will be really good and for others it won't look good or will have many artefacts. If (but that's a big if) I could get a 2D view wrapping around the whole hmd view with smooth fps and head tracking, I'd be happy enough. But as you found out, we're more likely to see sub 90fps framerates, and even if we could achieve a 90fps average, occasional drops will feel like nasty stuttering without the help of some timewarp. And that's where the current method fails ulitmately: it ties the head tracking to the game render, while in fact we'd want that tied to the timewarp framerate so that it stays at 90fps. Opentrack won't give us that option because it emulates trackIR. So it's definitely back to square 1 for me: what I really would like is a directX9 to 11 conversion followed by a connection of the view port to openVR - then I can use native openVR functions to create a duplicate and stereo 3D port and move it according to head tracking data, and all of that with native openVR timewarp. For that RoF is a bit easier to work with that WOFF because it's already dx9, while WOFF is dx8. Many people have done the process of hooking to dx9 games to convert the directX calls to 11, I've got sample code doing that, so in theory it should be easier. I'll be optimistic and plan to slowly restart reading and tinkering around this concept in the next month or so, but it will go super slow for a while.

Meanwhile at least I know how to enjoy RoF and WOFF on BigScreen - for WOFF I have a good sense of 3D using Tridef3D but it's got a few artefacts and glitches which hopefully can be fixed. I think that's what I"ll play if I ever actually get some spare time (and I'd also like to enjoy a bit of true VR with IL2 BOS, Prepar3d and XP11).

#4367723 - 07/06/17 11:34 AM Re: VR Support [Re: Stickshaker]  
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 10
Runzel Offline
Junior Member
Runzel  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 10
Heads up!

Today i tried TriDef VR with IMPRESSIVE results.

I think it is in an early stage and on the homepage it says you need some MSI equipment (Mainboard or GPU) to use it before it is made publicly available.
Well, i got an MSI Mainboard, so i figured what the heck, lets give it a shot! There is a 90 day trial.

The software also uses a virtual desktop just like bigscreen does.
It is really simple to use. Do you want this game in 3d? --> Yes please --> Yiippieyeah!
You just select your game, click it to be in 3d, and there you go. One slider to adjust how much depth you want and another slider to get your eyes focused.

Holy cow! So good!

Constant 90 fps (It gives information about fps for the "headset" and for the "game". I think when the headset would stutter it decreases fps from the game which is displayed on your monitor to keep it smooth in VR. If that makes sense?).
Headtracking (Opentrack) - smooth
Depth perception - wonderful
Reading text in game or cockpit instruments - No problem!
Screen adjustment - as big as you like, as bent as you like, as close as you like. You can figuratively wrap it 360 degree around you.

In game the first enemy encounter was surprising ... like "What?! I hit that?", because 9 out of 10 times i would have missed that shot. I really think the 3d helps to estimate speed and distance.
If you got the chance, try it!

The 2d screen in 3d is do- and playable. Let's hope someone succeeds making it an open source solution. Because TriDef VR does come with a cost. And not only that. You dont purchase the product, you rent a license to use it for 3, 6 or 12 month.
I really dislike the "rent this software" approach. But so far TriDefVR seems to be the only product who offers an easy to use solution for VR in Rise Of Flight.

Last edited by Runzel; 07/06/17 11:36 AM.
#4367853 - 07/07/17 03:04 AM Re: VR Support [Re: Stickshaker]  
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 553
FlyingMonkey Offline
Member
FlyingMonkey  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 553
Down under in Adelaide
Nice, thanks for the heads up. I own Tridef 3D but not their VR version (and no MSI hardware in my computer right now - if I remember rightly they will sell it for all in september though). It's still only a big virtual screen though, not a proper wrapped around VR view (ie the same thing as native VR in IL2 BOS or DCS), so while that's a great addition for the moment, the issue of finding a way to get our WW1 in proper VR remains.

#4367866 - 07/07/17 06:57 AM Re: VR Support [Re: Stickshaker]  
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 10
Runzel Offline
Junior Member
Runzel  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 10
Yes, according to their FAQ they will release it in september.

While it is true that TriDefVR uses a virtual screen, the experienced 3d differs somewhat from what i have seen so far or would have expected to be possible on a virtual screen.
The objects do not only have depth, but they seem to stick out and i got the same thoughts as in other native VR games: "That radiator control, if i reached out with my hand, i could totally touch that"-feeling.
And what they really nailed there is the text readability with supersampling. Not in DCS nor in BOS did i feel so comfortable reading mission objectives or looking at my map.

But of course, when you look straight up or down, past the virtual screen, you notice that you are in some kind of virtual space.
And another thing is when you turn your head 180° and more, you see where the screens left and right arm connects behind you. There the games image has a jump. On the one end of the VR-screen you would see the fin of your plane, but a few centimeters past that point you see for example the wing. Maybe it is possible to make the transition between images better when i find the perfect setting for opentrack.

So still plenty of room for improvement and i keep my fingers crossed proper VR will be possible in ROF.

#4368143 - 07/09/17 10:13 AM Re: VR Support [Re: Stickshaker]  
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 182
Stickshaker Offline
Member
Stickshaker  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 182
Netherlands
Great find, Runzel! I saw on the website that RoF is one of the supported games of TriDef VR, so I am going to try it out once I am sure my computer can handle it. WOFF does not seem to be supported. I am still hoping for ‘true’ WWI VR one day but as an intermediate step this seems quite promising.
Best regards,
Stickshaker

#4368527 - 07/11/17 01:38 AM Re: VR Support [Re: Stickshaker]  
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 553
FlyingMonkey Offline
Member
FlyingMonkey  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 553
Down under in Adelaide
WOFF is not listed but it's likely that it will work. RIght now WOFF UE works alright using the "generic" profile in Tridef 3D, and I would be surprised if that didn't mean that it also works in the same way in the VR version of Tridef. But note that when I say "alright", it's because there are a few glitches (ie some struts look glitchy, some parts of some planes in the front part of the cockpit seemed to be missing - there might be a way to improve that though).

#4368566 - 07/11/17 08:47 AM Re: VR Support [Re: Runzel]  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,043
Steve_F Online cool
Senior Member
Steve_F  Online Cool
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,043
London, England
Thanks for the update Runzel.
I saw Tridef had gone back into VR with the MSI tie up.
Luckily I do have MSI hardware, so will have to give it a try.

Sounds promising. After trying out DCS in VR, all that was missing in RoF was the 3D

#4368598 - 07/11/17 12:52 PM Re: VR Support [Re: FlyingMonkey]  
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 193
SacaSoh Offline
Member
SacaSoh  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 193
Brasil
Originally Posted by FlyingMonkey
WOFF is not listed but it's likely that it will work. RIght now WOFF UE works alright using the "generic" profile in Tridef 3D, and I would be surprised if that didn't mean that it also works in the same way in the VR version of Tridef. But note that when I say "alright", it's because there are a few glitches (ie some struts look glitchy, some parts of some planes in the front part of the cockpit seemed to be missing - there might be a way to improve that though).


Do you think WOFF UE is "playable" with these glitches? I've sold my trackir 5 the day my Oculus arrived, and I dearly miss playing WOFF, but can't without the trackir lol.
If only WOFF and Falcon BMS were VR...

#4368641 - 07/11/17 04:45 PM Re: VR Support [Re: Steve_F]  
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 10
Runzel Offline
Junior Member
Runzel  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 10
Originally Posted by Steve_F
Thanks for the update Runzel.
I saw Tridef had gone back into VR with the MSI tie up.
Luckily I do have MSI hardware, so will have to give it a try.

Sounds promising. After trying out DCS in VR, all that was missing in RoF was the 3D


Hello Steve smile

I hope you enjoy it as much as i do. I got totally hooked .. thinking about campaigns, planes, tweaking settings, new hardware to buy ... like every free minute now. The addiction is real!

A little advice about improving TriDef VR.
When you start the software and got your profile you will see the 2 sliders to increase depth and to get your eyes focused. I thought these are the only settings, but there is a lot more!

Press "0" on your number keypad. 8,4,6,2, is to navigate. "5" is select. "0" is go back.
There you enable 3d and individual focus.
Now you can give a value between 0 to 100 for objects far away and the same for objects very close.
(I got distant objects somewhere between 90 and 100, Close objects at about 20)
When you close one eye you will see how the image makes little jumps from left to right for each value increase or decrease. With this method you can align the picture to the distance between your eyes and the distance to your VR headset screen.

Put your plane on the runway, take a look outside your cockpit, so you see your cockpit up close and lots of ground near and far away. Pause it, so you can turn your head but the image remains stable.
Now tweak the settings till everything is sharp. no matter where you look and what you focus. Every bump on the ground should be aligned. From 1 meter up to the trees 500 meter away. No double images.
This should further help to improve immersion. I have no problem now spotting enemy planes and can identify them usually pretty quick.

I never had TrackIR, so i cant really compare. But from the 3 monitors I used to play with to the virtual 3d screen. It is is a huge jump forward.

Hope it helps.

P.S. Only thing that bothers me is Alt tabbing outside of ROF sometimes crashes TriDef VR (PWCG is a bit of a gamble to use).

#4368655 - 07/11/17 06:12 PM Re: VR Support [Re: Stickshaker]  
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 182
Stickshaker Offline
Member
Stickshaker  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 182
Netherlands
Thanks for the useful tips, Runzel! I do have MSi hardware but it is a year old, so it didn’t come with the software. I’ll have to wait until September. Or until there is another solution. But from what you write it’ll be worth the wait.
Best regards,
Stickshaker

#4368689 - 07/11/17 08:45 PM Re: VR Support [Re: Stickshaker]  
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 10
Runzel Offline
Junior Member
Runzel  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 10
@ Stickshaker

My MSI hardware is also one year old.
I think the software doesnt come with a new product. You can download it either way and it activates if it finds MSI components in your rig. I dont know how old they should be.

Did you run the MSI "Check Hardware" tool?
You find it here:
https://www.tridef.com/cart/pages.php?pageid=25

I just ran this tool and it said: "Congratulations! MSI product was found. You qualify for the software." or something like that.

#4368940 - 07/13/17 03:34 AM Re: VR Support [Re: SacaSoh]  
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 553
FlyingMonkey Offline
Member
FlyingMonkey  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 553
Down under in Adelaide
Originally Posted by SacaSoh
Originally Posted by FlyingMonkey
WOFF is not listed but it's likely that it will work. RIght now WOFF UE works alright using the "generic" profile in Tridef 3D, and I would be surprised if that didn't mean that it also works in the same way in the VR version of Tridef. But note that when I say "alright", it's because there are a few glitches (ie some struts look glitchy, some parts of some planes in the front part of the cockpit seemed to be missing - there might be a way to improve that though).


Do you think WOFF UE is "playable" with these glitches? I've sold my trackir 5 the day my Oculus arrived, and I dearly miss playing WOFF, but can't without the trackir lol.
If only WOFF and Falcon BMS were VR...


Not entirely sure as I only made a couple of quick tests with one aircraft (the N17 I think). Things might be worse or better depending on the plane, and there might be way to fine tune the Tridef profile to improve these issues. Not really possible for me to test more these days as our baby girl is proving very clingy currently. I'm lucky if I get to have 15 min on my own at my desk (or in VR).

I had the same sort of motivation as you to make WOFF or ROF work: I still have my trackIR, but in fact all my flight gear is in our guest/VR room now, where I've got sort of modular cockpit with a chair, a stick stand and an old PC case with throttle, mini keyboard and trim wheel stuck to it, and it's not possible or convenient to drag all that stuff back to the study where the monitor actually is (I've got the computer and VR stuff in VR room, then 10m usb and HDMI cables connecting to the study where I do my traditional on monitor gaming, coding and general computer usage. So just having WOFF on a big VR screen and relying on the Vive tracking is now my only way to play WOFF and ROF. But I won't be satisfied until I give a serious go at coding proper VR for one of these games - at least I've got currently more time to read when I'm stuck with the baby in my arms, so I'm currently reading a lot of stuff about implementing VR and having a look at others code to do that for non VR games.

#4368953 - 07/13/17 10:15 AM Re: VR Support [Re: Stickshaker]  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,043
Steve_F Online cool
Senior Member
Steve_F  Online Cool
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,043
London, England
OK on the back of this thread and the fact that BoS works so well in VR, I have decided not to connect up my DK2 to test this stuff out and have pulled the trigger on a CV1.
A decision made even easier by the fact that there is a CV1 sale on right now. £399 with touch controllers and 7 games package smile
Found it too hard to resist. Buy button was like a magnet to me finger

#4369055 - 07/13/17 07:39 PM Re: VR Support [Re: Stickshaker]  
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 10
Runzel Offline
Junior Member
Runzel  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 10
biggrin I know that feeling.

They call it "Summer of Rift". Looks like they took the gloves off and battle the competition hard with a bargain price.
Good for the customers for sure.

I hope headtracking with the CV1 works good with opentrack. I cant tell, cause i got the Vive.

Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  Avimimus, RacerGT, Wklink 

Quick Search
Recent Articles
Support SimHQ

If you shop on Amazon use this Amazon link to support SimHQ
.
Social


Recent Topics
Missile Launch T minus 60 minutes - VAFB
by Azshal. 09/24/17 04:26 AM
Are you Larry David, or the "Pig Parker"?
by Li'lJugs. 09/22/17 02:32 PM
Wings Over Dallas Oct 7-8
by Bill_Grant. 09/21/17 06:38 PM
Aviation comedy gold
by LB4LB. 09/21/17 04:02 PM
The Punisher - Netflix
by Chaz. 09/20/17 08:14 PM
New 2.35:1 Screen and 3D theater ;)
by The Nephilim. 09/20/17 12:42 AM
Russian Helicopter fires on spectators.
by Bill_Grant. 09/19/17 06:56 PM
IJN Mogami poem
by Fungezap. 09/19/17 05:17 PM
Copyright 1997-2016, SimHQ Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0