So it's time. I haven't built a box since about 2008, but built several before then. I want a new system and was going to take the easy route and get a custom built but the prices are just loopy. For what I can probably buy for about US $1500 it would cost double that to buy pre-built. So let's build a box!
Because of that long interval since my last build, I really am not up on the latest hardware. So I am looking for opinions and advice, anything goes. Had a quick bash about Newegg and came up with the following rough build.
-- COOLER MASTER RC-912-KKN1 HAF 912 Chassis $79
-- ASUS Z170 PRO GAMING LGA 1151 Intel Z170 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.1 USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard $150
-- CORSAIR Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 2666 (PC4 21300) Desktop Memory Model CMK16GX4M2A2666C16 $79
-- CORSAIR RMx Series RM750X 750W 80 PLUS GOLD Haswell Ready Full Modular ATX12V & EPS12V SLI and Crossfire Ready Power Supply $119 updated
-- ASUS DVD-Writer 24X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 8X DVD+R DL 24X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 24X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM Black SATA $28
-- Samsung S27E650D 27" LED LCD Monitor - 16:9 - 4 ms $275 updated
Total as shown, $1707 updated
My specific early questions are
-- What is the proper power supply for this sort of box? I listed a 700w but is that enough or too much?
-- Help me with the CPU. There are so many and I want to future proof as much as I can, but without paying the premium for the latest.
-- Yes, I listed 2 hard drives, an SSD and a platter drive both 1TB. I know common wisdom is a small 250 SSD or so for the OS, with the storage on a mechanical drive. But my current system has a 1 TB SSD and I've liked it so thought of doing it again. Please list you reasons why if you argue against this setup.
-- Do CPU's still come with heatsinks and fans? If not which would you recommend so I can add one to the list.
That's a start (what did I forget?). Help me build a good gaming box please.
Edit: This is what I went with in the end
-- i7 6700K Skylake -- Asus Z170 mainboard -- 16 gigs o' RAM -- EVGA 750w power supply -- 500 GB Samsung SSD -- 2TB Seagate mechanical -- Asus GTX 1070 8GB -- Win 10
Last edited by DBond; 03/17/1705:21 PM.
No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
I'm in the same boat, but waiting until next February when the AMD FX (Zen core) CPU's come out. I did buy an RX 480 recently. It's a good performer but your GTX 1060 will be even better, although more expensive.
Check out some power supply calculators to determine your PSU needs. Here is one but there are others. http://powersupplycalculator.net/
Allen
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Ohio USA
The following assumes that "money matters" and you are looking for "bang for buck". Since your prices seem high, I assume you are in Canada. If not (say for example you are in NJ), you should be able to get some things cheaper than shown.
For a gamer, the GPU and CPU are virtually "everything" in a game. Moreover, the GPU is most important. Your monitor is important, but you've picked a good form factor.
So, pinch pennies wherever you can -- and try to get yourself up to a GTX 1070 (I notice one for $510ca at Newegg.ca -- I have not researched it further). Its only $390 US.
Based on my many builds with SSD, you could "get by just fine" with a 240GB Samsung 850EVO SSD for around $133ca -- thus saving ~$130ca. You could probably even get by with 128GB -- just use it for OS and other "office/home" software. Almost no games need SSD. The one or two you might find that do could go on the 120GB. Caution, try not to fill the SSD much past 50 percent -- though 80 percent will work okay. There is an AData 240GB for $80ca at Newegg. Or pick a lower capacity version of your Crucial 1TB unit and save $$. US prices are cheaper. Put the savings toward the 1070.
WD Blue is slow. You should be able to get a full speed Seagate for about the same $ (I did not check the Ca price). WD has the reputation -- and charges for it. But, I find Seagate just as good -- but cheaper.
Right now, the new 16nm and 14nm GPUs are overpriced -- particularly the high end Nvidia ones (they currently have no competition). My RX480 plays everything I play on Ultimate settings (0AA) -- but, those are selling for too much too. When AMD releases its Vega GPU line in early 2017 (not that far off), prices will drop on everything. Or there very likely may be big sales on Black Friday -- may have to look hourly and jump on the good one.
Also, early next year AMD releases Zen 14nm CPUs. That will cause some serious CPU price competition.
All in all, I'm waiting for Zen and Vega to do my major upgrade -- been playing virtually the same system for years.
Just opinions for what they may (or may not) be worth
The 6700K/6600K CPUs do not come with a stock cooler. I have a 6600K with a Noctua NH-D15 cooler and for the performance and price, it's hard to beat.
I don't see why you'd need a 1TB SSD, unless you're playing with FSX and insist on putting everything on the SSD. I don't play FSX so I'm not sure if it benefits from SSDs, but just making an example. For most games, you can install them on a HDD and use Steam Tool to transfer games from HDD to SSD and vice versa.
I would recommend TWO SSDs though... one for OS and one for gaming.
I wonder why get a 1060? Why not 1070 or 1080? IMHO, seems silly going for a cutting-edge CPU and then going for a lower-end GPU.... unless this machine is not for gaming. Personally, I went with a 6600K CPU but a 980Ti GPU as most games use GPU more than CPU.
I'm also not too sure about ViewSonic as a monitor brand, so unless you have previous experience with it....
I posted a few thoughts on Nixer's thread so I'll just point you to that for now.
Thanks for the replies. I am in the US, New Jersey. The prices I quoted were from Newegg today. Do they seem high? I've always used Newegg and found their prices competitive, but I don't want to pay more than I need to , though it is convenient placing a single order. I don't need to pinch pennies on this one (the divorce was a few years ago lol), just looking for good bang for the buck.
Ice, see I didn't even realize that the CPU I selected was cutting edge. I've always built my systems on the tech that just got surpassed, so that I had good stuff, but not the absolute latest as I saw that as best bang for the buck. But it does make sense to go with a top CPU in this box, and I can upgrade the video card through a couple of generations.
As for the video card, I could certainly go better, but again I didn't realize I had selected one that was significantly worse than the 1070. Is it?
What monitor manufacturer would you recommend?
Thanks Allen for the feedback. I will take your recommendation on the Seagate. Hard drives are cheap these days so I'd really like to get a good performer. I will also go with a 1070 since you guys seem to be in agreement.
What about the memory? I see there are many different DDR4 types, so I chose one in the middle (2666). Anything I should consider here? Memory is cheap these days as well, so no problem going with something better if I'll notice a difference. Any thoughts on the mainboard?
No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
Allen
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Newegg is good. I use either Newegg or Amazon for everything. Newegg mostly for computer stuff -- but, I check the price at Amazon. I wondered about "me" after writing the note -- regarding Canada -- sorry.
If money is less of an object -- then, by all means, look for something that will "hold you" for a couple generations of games. A fast Intel processor and 1070 are the best (disregarding cost) long term "today" -- and that from an AMD fan
Once one has the GPU and CPU, the rest has minimal effect (if any) on Framerates (you will never "see" it with your unaided eyes). So, your memory seems fine. And, you could buy a bigger SSD if money is not an issue (SSD gives noticeably faster load/save times, but rarely matters during game play). Some brands of SSD are more reliable than others -- Samsung is a good one in my experience -- but not the only one. I still think 240GB or thereabouts is the "sweet spot". I have larger myself. But, now that I do, I see I don't need that size. Still, if money is available -- why not
The 1070 is much better than the 1060. The 1060 (and RX480) represent a very strong "minimum" solution for a serious gamer -- and their performance is so close you could not tell them apart with your "eyes" (1060 wins some, RX480 wins some). I will be replacing/upgrading my RX480 when the AMD Vega series is released. If you like Nvidia, get the 1070 now.
The Monitor is something you "SEE" with your eyes constantly. Since the monitor is the bridge between your eyes and the game, I want a really good one, personally. The one I picked has turned out excellent. It costs more, but one can really "see" the difference. Mine is a 2K (1440p) 32 inch. "high contrast" monitor that has great off axis viewing. The keys for me are size, resolution, 100 percent color gamut, true black level (3000:1 native contrast or better), and off axis performance. There have been remarkably few monitors (one here and there) that meet my standard. Mine is in my signature. Samsung SD850. Amazon and Newegg has them for $398 today.
If it fits on your desk, I highly recommend it -- a monitor lasts for a decade or more -- out lasts multiple GPUs -- so get a good one that does "everything" -- is my approach. We have two SD850 in the house (mine, my wife's). Amazon has the best description:
16GB of memory is "right". I am not an Intel expert to know about the mainboard. Just know ASUS makes good ones (I buy ASUS or GigaByte mainboards almost every time).
"Best bang for buck" usually means overclocking IME. Do you plan to do this? To give you an example, a 6600K costs almost £100 less than the 6700K, but with a good cooler and decent OC, I can push my 6600K to 4.4GHz which is faster than a stock 6700K. From forum posts, it seems like the 6700K can do 4.9GHz on the really good ones, or around 4.6 for most people or 4.7 or 4.8 when pushing it really hard (watercooled setups). So my 4.4GHz on a 6600K isn't too bad at all! Note: this was when I was doing research last December 2015 so the numbers may have shifted a bit now.
As for CPU vs. GPU, yes... my priorities are actually PSU (coz it powers everything!) then CPU/mobo then GPU. So yeah, get a good CPU because that will dictate the motherboard you will need and to a certain extent (maybe not so much now with DDR4 getting more mainstream) the type of RAM you will get. GPU upgrades later on is an easy affair of unplugging the old one the putting in the new one.
For the monitor, I have good experience with AOC and iiyama and tend to go that way. But do your own research and see what's good for you. As Allen says, this is what you see everyday so make sure you're happy with it. One caveat though --- the type of monitor may influence your GPU choice. A 1060 may be able to drive a 1920x1080 res monitor but if you want higher res like Allen's 2K setup or if you're planning to do multi-monitor setups, then the 1060 might suddenly struggle with pushing all those pixels.
For RAM, stay away from the exotic ones. They give less return for your investment. How do you tell the "exotic ones?" You'll notice a sudden jump in price considering they're all the same kit (2x8GB sticks).
I have used GSkill memory for my last 2 builds and it's good stuff. Check whatever you choose on Asus website for your board to make sure it's compatible.
GSkill has a Ram calculator thing on their website which tells you also.
NewEgg has a power supply calculator right on their site.
I used an Asus Z170 board in mine I built last week. Here's the link.
I went for the cheaper -E model I think because it had less DOA comments in the reviews..not sure.
Spend some time reading the reviews, you'll learn alot.
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I'm not going to wait for next year when the new AMD tech is released, even if it would benefit me with lower costs or better performance. I need a rig for this winter! I don't know if any of you ever hung out at Frugal's World back in the day? We had a member called Smeghead. He often posted threads about building a new box, but he always seemed to be waiting for the next big thing right around the corner. And of course once that was here, the next, next big thing was right around the corner and as a result he never seemed to pull the trigger. I dubbed this particular affliction Smegliosis.
Thanks Nixer, did you opt for any network solution other than what was on the mainboard? Any pros or cons you can think of for the board?
Allen, no worries, I like Canada. I mean, who doesn't like Canada?
I'm still undecided on the hard drive setup. I'm quite partial to SSDs. One game I play alot is Europa Universalis, and in ironman mode, which means an auto-save every month of game time. Over the course of a full game that's 4524 autosaves. Even if the SSD only saved me 3 seconds each save, that's 226 minutes of not waiting for it to save. That's worth it right there innit?
I also know from my current PC that 1 TB just isn't enough. But two 1TB SSDs are costly. Gonna have to kick this around some more.
No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
Allen
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Ohio USA
Originally Posted By: DBond
..Allen, no worries, I like Canada. I mean, who doesn't like Canada?...
Yes, even my response was not well stated -- as it could seem like I had a problem with Canada. No, I just meant my response to you was less beneficial because I was thinking Canada prices.
As for Canada itself, for the record, I want to "flush" any thought that my statement was anti-Canada. Actually, I literally sometimes daydream that our countries could merge to our mutual benefit. Canada has a lot to like -- I have visited there and I could live there.
Meantime, neat thought about waiting for the next big thing. In my case, my machine "as is" does it all with "room to spare". Nothing I could buy today would make an improvement for me. So, I wait and hope the "next big thing" will actually justify its purchase. Being an AMD fan, I patiently wait for the next AMD big thing
Well, for what it's worth I detected no anti-Canada sentiment, as if that were even possible. They gave us ice hockey, Shania Twain and Molson, so who wouldn't like Canadians?
Allen you mentioned the form factor. Looking at a different video card it appears these 1070s are quite large. the case I listed is Mid-size ATX/MATX. There will be no clearance issues for the video card?
No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
Allen
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I measured one of my "small" HTPC builds -- in the smallest normal looking case I found at the time (but a good case). One could not fit an ATX board into my case.
A 10" card could squeeze in. A 9.5" or smaller card would be "easy" to install. Your ATX case may actually have more room. Naturally, I can't tell "from here".
Nice thing about the new generation is that cards can be smaller -- yet still powerful.
At Newegg, I quickly found three 1070 at 9.5" and less -- I did not search exhaustively. All were near $400 plus or minus.
I'm still undecided on the hard drive setup. I'm quite partial to SSDs. One game I play alot is Europa Universalis, and in ironman mode, which means an auto-save every month of game time. Over the course of a full game that's 4524 autosaves. Even if the SSD only saved me 3 seconds each save, that's 226 minutes of not waiting for it to save. That's worth it right there innit?
I also know from my current PC that 1 TB just isn't enough. But two 1TB SSDs are costly. Gonna have to kick this around some more.
How big is the EU install? How big is the EU folder with mods and save files?
IMHO, best bet is a 128GB or 256GB SSD for OS and a few select programs like Photoshop, then a second 256GB or 500GB SSD for games that are "time-sensitive." For me, that's usually my flight sim games and then games I'm currently playing like War Thunder, The Witcher 3, Deus Ex, and Shadows of Mordor. Then get a 1TB or higher HDD and short-stroke it, put secondary "time-sensitive" games on the fast bit (for me, Combat Mission games, Civ 5, Tropico, and so on) and the rest of your stuff/games/documents/movies on the slower bit.
Out of curiosity, what's in your 1TB SSD? I have a feeling your documents/pictures/movies are all in that 1TB SSD and that's why you think 1TB "is not enough"....
The z-170 board is fine so far. If you are using alot of sata, plug a couple in before you seat your vid card or it will block a couple of sata ports. Get a few extra sata cables.
The board can use a m2 superfast sata drive, I didn't know enough about it so I didn't go that route. Looks like RAID on crack speedwise.
BTW I am pushing 2560x1440 no problem with my 950 GTX. Also running a second 24 inch at 1920x1080. Smooth as silk. Only game I have tried is eve online. Everything maxed and getting a ridiculous good framerate, smooth as silk.
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Prices seem inflated right now probably because of the imminent holiday sales just around the corner. Personally I would wait another month or two for some nice deals to start showing up.
A 500GB SSD should be plenty for your games, and maybe get an additional ~120gb for your OS and any apps/programs you use frequently. I use a 256gb ssd for all my games, and as long as I don't try to DL my complete Steam library, I usually have space to spare (I only have the time to steadily play 4-5 games anyways). I also use a 120gb for my OS, programs, and pagefile.
A 600w GOLD (or higher) rated PSU should be plenty for that system, depending of course how many peripherals you want plugged in. If modularity isn't an issue, you can save a few more $$ buying an un-modular or semi-modular PSU
I would also recommend at least a 7500RPM HDD even if you don't use it for games; they're just more responsive and less wait times for about the same price.
If you don't plan to ever OC that CPU, save some money by choosing a non-K version and even a cheaper MB
How big is the EU install? How big is the EU folder with mods and save files?
Out of curiosity, what's in your 1TB SSD? I have a feeling your documents/pictures/movies are all in that 1TB SSD and that's why you think 1TB "is not enough"....
EU IV itself isn't all that big, but I noticed that the save folder was over 3 gigs. This system has no videos or pics, it's just a gaming system. Turns out the hard drive's not a TB, but 960 MB and I have 120 GB still free. Still, that's 80% of a terabyte, so I will get something more than a TB for the new box.
Thanks JJJ, I don't have any designs on overclocking, at least not any time soon. This CPU should be plenty fast for the forseeable future. Thanks for the tip. Which boards do you recommend?
Allen, thanks very much for the advice. Of course you can't know if it would fit for certain, I should have worded it differently. Thanks for the info. The one now listed is 9.5". I see this card is available in STRIX and GAMING versions. What does this mean? Should I care? Looks like additional cooling perhaps?
Looking for recommendations for a compatible heatsink/fan and thermal compound.
I also need an OS. Thinking Win 7 64 bit, but any compelling reasons to go with Win 10 in this box?
Original post updated with changes and new prices
Last edited by DBond; 09/26/1603:04 PM.
No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
Allen
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Win 7 is no longer well supported by Microsoft or all folks who manufacture stuff for Windows PCs. Windows 10 is excellent -- both in performance and interface. Has no downsides unless one has older hardware or software that is unsupported. However, most don't have stuff in that category. We have one of our several in-house computers (all home made) running W8 because W10 does not support Windows Media Center for TV tuning. The others (even old ones) have all been upgraded to W10.
Here is a card that is by a good name and is the right size. And is just over $400 today. Other than that, I have not checked the card in detail (i.e. read reviews etc).
It is common to throw on better fans and big names and charge bigger money -- for very small increases in performance -- nearly always invisible to unaided eyes. I notice the STRIX GAMING tags are on cards that have 3 fans and are "too long".
Merely check the clock rates. If two cards of the same type (e.g. 1070) are within 10 percent of each other, its arguable that the difference is inconsequential in actual use. Consider, its more than the GPU that determines final frame rate. Faster clocks do not add proportionally more FPS in many applications. However, many of us pay more just for the fun of it
Thanks Allen. That just so happens to be the same card I listed. So that seems to be fate.
Win 10 eh? Why do I feel dirty? Probably will be fine. And it's a little cheaper too.
I will probably change out the case. I liked the looks of that one, but it's sold from an overseas partner and I don't need the hassle if there's a reason to RMA it.
No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
EU IV itself isn't all that big, but I noticed that the save folder was over 3 gigs. This system has no videos or pics, it's just a gaming system. Turns out the hard drive's not a TB, but 960 MB and I have 120 GB still free. Still, that's 80% of a terabyte, so I will get something more than a TB for the new box.
Still doesn't explain the need for a 1TB SSD. There is no way I would recommend a 1TB SSD. A 250GB Samsung 850 EVO goes for around £88, a 500GB version is £145, and a 1TB one goes for £288. I would buy two 250GB SSDs (£176) and get a 2TB HDD for £65 and still end up cheaper than a 1TB SSD.
One thing to remember... not everything benefits from an SSD so if you insist on putting stuff on an SSD that doesn't NEED to be on an SSD, you're just wasting money.
Originally Posted By: DBond
I see this card is available in STRIX and GAMING versions. What does this mean? Should I care? Looks like additional cooling perhaps?
These are usually OC'ed versions or stuff with custom fan/heat sink designs or both. Personally, I go for a dual- or triple-fan system just because it's easier to keep a GPU cool with 2 or 3 smaller fans than with 1 bigger fan.... plus it's also much more quiet with smaller fans.
I've got a 250GB M.2 SSD for OS and apps plus a 1TB one for games. There might not be FPS benefits for games but those that stream from disk are less likely to stutter and of course loading times are reduced. Then there's the fact that SSDs are silent, smaller, cooler and consume less power than HDDs.
Whether all that is worth the (admittedly substantial) premium is a personal choice, but I certainly don't feel like I've wasted money.
