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#4295443 - 09/12/16 10:41 AM Rudder pedals help  
Joined: Nov 2009
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Flit Offline
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Flit  Offline
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Auckland
I want to make myself a set of rudder pedals with toe brakes, but I face the problem of being clueless. duh ha ha - sorry. Before I even think about cutting or drawing I need to know what the electronic aspect will be. I have done much searching and reading and I am much confused. I think I have the basic idea, but need some reassurance/correction/direction.

Perhaps someone would be kind enough to read the conclusions/questions I have come to so far as listed below and respond accordingly.

1) I don't want to butcher some old USB device for circuitry and pots. I've explored that idea and it doesn't appeal. I'd like to put some new bits in. I haven't decided whether to use a sliding or rotary pot yet, but, what specs would I use? A google of potentiometers gives a vast array of confusing specs. Could someone suggest some suitable specs for pots to suit a toe brake and/or a rudder? What amps or ohms or mph should I be looking at?

2) Circuitry - I read someone had used an Arduino Uno. Will this suffice for 3 pots? I see one for sale here on our local net purchase site. Is this what I want? Do I need to modify it? Am I way off the mark? http://www.trademe.co.nz/electronics-pho...-1158778956.htm

3) I understand that having wired it all up I then need to program it. This is perhaps the most confusing aspect for me. Is there where some study of MMJoy's program is required? Is there not a prewritten code for 1 rudder pot and 2 brake pots out there that I can scavenge?

Many thanks in advance for any tips/pointers.

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#4295471 - 09/12/16 12:50 PM Re: Rudder pedals help [Re: Flit]  
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WileECoyote Offline
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1) You can either use pots (say, 100 kilo ohm lineal ones) or better yet hall effect sensors.

2) The Uno can be made to work but it's a pain in the butt as it's not designed to do that. Get the Arduino Leonardo or Micro whose chips can be flashed with new HID descriptors. You can also use a Teensy which is also compatible with Arduino so it's super easy to use.

3) Probably but I wouldn't know. In any case the programming aspect of it is really easy, with or with out MMJoy. I'd say your biggest problem will be understanding the hardware and how to hook things up and that sort of thing, the code it self would be quite simple for a device like this.

Edit: Now that I think about it, there were Loe Bodnar boards... I never used them but they looked like a good choice too.

Last edited by WileECoyote; 09/12/16 12:53 PM.

When you're feeling sad, just remember that somewhere in the world, there's someone pushing a door that says "pull".
#4295473 - 09/12/16 12:57 PM Re: Rudder pedals help [Re: Flit]  
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AndyB Offline
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Ayrshire, Scotland
Hi,

Normally the pots in joysticks, rudder pedals etc are 100K value. They must be LINEAR taper (you can get log and lin type pots).

For the electronics I'd suggest this:

http://www.leobodnar.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=94&products_id=204

The board plugs in with a USB cable and is detected by Windows.

There is a row of pins on the board 3 pins wide. One is +5v, one is voltage back to the board and the other is ground. You connect the three tags on the pot to one set of pins and that should show up in windows as an axis. No programming required.

NOTE: make sure you connect the tags on the pots to the correct pins on the board (there is a diagram on Leo's site).

Cheers,

Andy


Andy's simpit: http://www.simpit.me.uk
#4295542 - 09/12/16 03:52 PM Re: Rudder pedals help [Re: Flit]  
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Sokol1 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Flit
I want to make myself a set of rudder pedals with toe brakes,


"Easy task" - if you are able (and have skill and tools) to make a good mechanic parts, the old "Baloo Pedals" are a good base to start, improve then with bearings, better center system.

Electronics today is cheap and accessibly, plenty of options, plenty of help in Internet. For example, can buy:

BU0836A controller - 36$.

DSD controller = 39.75$ (free worldwide shipping).

Or, get a Arduino PRO Micro/Teensy - ~20$ or Chinese clone for 5$, load MMjoy2 firmware. Topic about there.

All will be a PnP game controller using Windows HID drivers, no 3rd party drivers needed.

Potentiomters for USB controllers could be 1 to 100k - better use between 10 and 50k, the best compromise between noise generation and and electric consumption.

But, you need 30 to 60 degrees electric travel potentiometer, or will need use gears/pulleys or loose resolution.
Good luck looking for them in electronics stores.

BTW - Potentiometer wear with use and cause "noise" - spikes in axis response.
You can use good quality ones, that will cost more that the next option:

DIY HALL sensor - tricky to "tune" the center position. But easy with assembled like pot' ones:

http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?mpart=6127V1A60L.5&vendor=987

Or "Magnetic Resistence" sensor, like the Troll mentioned TLE5010/11 - they need a small PCB.
This kind of sensor are standard in the "Next Gen" pedals now available: Baur, MFG, SLaw, VKB.

Quote:
3) I understand that having wired it all up I then need to program it. This is perhaps the most confusing aspect for me. Is there where some study of MMJoy's program is required? Is there not a prewritten code for 1 rudder pot and 2 brake pots out there that I can scavenge?


You don't need "program it" - the programming is done by Mega_MOZG, nor deal with sketch codes. This is need for "Arduino Start Kits" like in your link, what is for the guys that want learn programming Arduino's, you dont need this.

What you need do is load the MMJoy2 firmware in Arduino PRO micro, what is like record a file in a DVD in Windows, or upgrade Warthog, or VKB Mamba, Gladiator firmware.
Don't require extra hardware, use the connection of USB cable.

The advantage of MMjoy2 firmware is their flexibility, you can set the device name, VID/PID, number of axis, axis names, axis resolution, filter, axis curves and more.

If you find a "prewritten" code will be limited to what their author think is good.

If you want add CAM center in your pedal PM me I "translated" a Russian document about the basics. "Joystick CAM for Dummies". smile

#4295548 - 09/12/16 04:12 PM Re: Rudder pedals help [Re: Flit]  
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Sokol1 Offline
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Sokol1  Offline
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Pedal design.

For reference VKB made available the drawings of their first pedal - the Mk.I (~2004), with "pincer center" - like Baloo, Saitek's, early Slaw pedals.

~

http://ftp.vkb-sim.pro/Drawings/Pedals/

Baloo


Baloo is a simple to make pedal - the foot rest can be done in other material than metal.
Be reducing the parallel bars length - adding a "T" for foot rest support like in MFG pedals, or the above VKB Mk.I - you increase pot/HALL reading angle for the same back and forth foot movement.

Drawings: http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/fo...ull=1#post49230

And take ideas from the "PRO's" creations: wink

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3977757/all/Slaw_VS._Milan_the_battle_of_t
http://avia-sim.ru/forum/files/pedals_76_235.jpg
http://avia-sim.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=909
http://simhq.com/forum/files/usergals/2013/06/full-35288-60352-imag0347.jpg




#4295947 - 09/13/16 05:57 PM Re: Rudder pedals help [Re: Flit]  
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Flit Offline
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Flit  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 86
Auckland
Gents, thank you so much for your time.

I have read you all carefully, and it seems a hall sensor may well be a better option in the long run. Once rigged and plugged to a suited joystick usb PCB, will a hall sensor alter the ease of a simple PnP as mentioned above?

I have not made any decisions as per design yet, only that I am leaning toward something where the user rests heels on the floor.

#4295971 - 09/13/16 07:18 PM Re: Rudder pedals help [Re: Flit]  
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Sokol1 Offline
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Sokol1  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Flit
Once rigged and plugged to a suited joystick usb PCB, will a hall sensor alter the ease of a simple PnP as mentioned above?


In the same way you plug and calibrate a potentiometer you do with HALL sensor.

Or Magnetic Resistence (TLE5011) - this only require more wires for plug, 6 instead 3 of the previous because work in digital mode - sending binary code for controller. Pot and HALL work in analog mode, sending voltage variation.

Quote:
I have not made any decisions as per design yet, only that I am leaning toward something where the user rests heels on the floor.


I think this design result less tireless in long use than "floating" foots pedals. smile



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