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#4292079 - 08/31/16 10:24 AM Glad I was a modern infantry man or The awesome power of artillery  
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DukeIronHand Offline
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High over the Front
Did 8 years in the USMC infantry and I am pretty familiar with artillery effects. Had it land close by, shot over my head, and trained with "Creeping Barrages" - first used on a large scale in WW1 btw - but mercifully have never been a direct target...or someone was a poor shot if they tried.

The effect of arty is quite awesome even at a distance. Hard to describe - you kinda have to be there.

I watch little TV but occasionally see what's on if I have a cup 'o tea and happened on a show about the Battle of Verdun in 1916 on the Military Channel. I knew artillery was the major killer in most wars but seeing it used here was...impressive?

During the show they showed some obviously period footage (though unknown if actually at Verdun) of a hill being pounded by arty in broad daylight. Film quality was very good. The cameraman was pretty close and the shelling quite accurate. The hill, not all that big, was being hit by impacts about every 1/2 second for the approx. 20 seconds of film. You could almost see, or perhaps feel, the whole damn thing being churned up and leveled. Obviously as a former grunt I pictured myself being on that hill and I didn't think much of my odds! No wonder the lists of the "Missing" is so large.

It was also mentioned that in some areas of Verdun the ground level is/was 21 feet lower after the war then before it.

It reminded me of why again opposing infantry during the war would curse mightily if a Art Obs aircraft was buzzing over their heads. Ain't like the movies! And why two seaters were such a high value target for the opposing Air Force and, really, what the whole war in the air was about...and that is the missions of pilot and observer.

#4292088 - 08/31/16 10:55 AM Re: Glad I was a modern infantry man or The awesome power of artillery [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Hasse Offline
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Artillery fire caused something like 70% of all casualties in both world wars. So the phrase "artillery conquers, infantry occupies" is firmly based in fact!

As a former gunner in heavy artillery, I can say that it's a very impressive experience to fire the guns. Normally, long range gunners don't even get to see in real time the damage their shells cause, but during training we also spent time with arty spotters and could observe just how devastating even short barrages could be.

Obviously modern artillery fire is even more lethal and accurate than in the Great War days, thanks to improved ammunition types and fire control and communication systems. Still, many of those methods trace their origins to the work done by gunners and observers in the First World War.


"Upon my word I've had as much excitement on a car as in the air, especially since the R.F.C. have had women drivers."

James McCudden, Five Years in the Royal Flying Corps
#4292097 - 08/31/16 11:05 AM Re: Glad I was a modern infantry man or The awesome power of artillery [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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I've been reading my way through the war, having just finished a book on Verdun and about halfway through Peter Hart's new one on the Somme.

The thing that amazes me, and I'm not sure we could duplicate today, is the size and the density of those WWI barrages. The lethality and accuracy of modern artillery is certainly worlds ahead of those back in the day. But for sheer size of shell and number of guns in some of those battles, it must have been like nothing seen before, and maybe not since.

Not to mention that the barrages sometimes lasted for days. How everyone didn't come unglued in those trenches and dugouts is beyond me.

#4292099 - 08/31/16 11:10 AM Re: Glad I was a modern infantry man or The awesome power of artillery [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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If you think that is impressive, you need to read about what the Soviets did against the Germans during WW2 on the Eastern Front. In some battles they almost lined up the artillery hub to hub to pound a way open on the German Front.


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#4292114 - 08/31/16 12:16 PM Re: Glad I was a modern infantry man or The awesome power of artillery [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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High over the Front
Someone posted a stat here once not too long ago (and I think it was reference the 100th anniversary of the start of Verdun) of some incredible figure of "number of shell impacts vs size of the battlefield" and, IIRC, the incredible numbers were like 10 shells hit (fired) per square meter of the Verdun battlefield. Amazing...

And, as pointed out above, modern arty tech is very impressive, but the idea that WW1 weapons were "archaic" is a serious misnomer. In regards to the artillery (and most of the other weapons) it was quite technical and sophisticated even by modern standards. The main difference being ultimate efficiency due to the, then, poor communication available.

#4292118 - 08/31/16 12:43 PM Re: Glad I was a modern infantry man or The awesome power of artillery [Re: Panama Red]  
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Originally Posted By: Panama Red
If you think that is impressive, you need to read about what the Soviets did against the Germans during WW2 on the Eastern Front. In some battles they almost lined up the artillery hub to hub to pound a way open on the German Front.

My grandfather was in Ukrainian infantry during WW2, he mentioned how impressive and scary it was to hear and see all those shells flying and exploding.

#4292123 - 08/31/16 12:47 PM Re: Glad I was a modern infantry man or The awesome power of artillery [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Hasse Offline
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One thing to note is that you actually require fewer guns to do the same job if you can make sure that their fire is accurate enough. In WW1 days, they needed more guns per square meter to achieve that result.

However, as Duke pointed out above, the weapon systems that were used in the Great War were indeed deadly. A heavy arty shell killed people just as easily back then as it does now. Perhaps the biggest weakness of WW1 armies in the field was their lack of reliable and easily transportable communication systems. That's one of the most important explanations for why offensives that started well enough usually bogged down pretty soon after the troops had advanced beyond their well-prepared initial positions into enemy territory. Communications broke down all too easily, and effective cooperation between infantry and artillery, which was absolutely necessary for all sustained breakthroughs, then become very difficult or even completely impossible.


"Upon my word I've had as much excitement on a car as in the air, especially since the R.F.C. have had women drivers."

James McCudden, Five Years in the Royal Flying Corps
#4292127 - 08/31/16 01:00 PM Re: Glad I was a modern infantry man or The awesome power of artillery [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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High over the Front
Good point Hasse about the ultimate limits of offensive territorial gains back then against even semi-organized and/or entrenched opposition.
And a point often overlooked.

#4292437 - 09/01/16 08:47 AM Re: Glad I was a modern infantry man or The awesome power of artillery [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Deadly stuff... However, MLRS... pretty deadly too


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