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#4283974 - 08/02/16 07:37 AM Win10 slow to boot?  
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It takes my PC ages now to boot, and my OS is on a SSD drive.

Yesterday, I also noticed that when I ask the PC to shutdown, it keeps on restarting. Trying out one of the solutions posted online, I nearly lost my mind when Win10 made a new profile for me and I lost access to my documents and files that I keep on the desktop. Luckily, a registry restore both fixed the restart problem and returned my profile.... but now I lost my second SSD where my games are. Windows 10 does not see it, BIOS does not see it.... but it was all working fine the other day.

So much hassle and Win10 isn't even a week old yet on my gaming PC. Maybe time to roll back to Win7.... if nothing but for the quicker boot times. Anyone else noticed this slow boot time?


- Ice
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#4283977 - 08/02/16 08:08 AM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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Nope,mine boots in a few seconds (MSI Fastboot) but I do have an M.2 Sata. If the BIOS doesn't see the drive that must be a hardware issue,not a Win 10 issue?

Was this a clean install of 10 Ice?

Last edited by Chucky; 08/02/16 08:09 AM.

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#4283980 - 08/02/16 08:22 AM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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Win10 is supposedly the fastest booting OS ever, I hear claims of 3 seconds.

If it increased your boot times then something went wrong.

#4284024 - 08/02/16 01:28 PM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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Time for a clean install (which is what you should have planned for anyway).

What is the difference between "Windows 10 hassle" and any other OS upgrade hassle?


Last edited by Bib4Tuna; 08/02/16 01:31 PM.
#4284026 - 08/02/16 01:32 PM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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Yeah, I've not experienced that. Win 10 definitely starts faster for me than 7 did.
I did notice an increase in boot times when I upgraded my PC, paradoxically. However, that's more about POST time than Windows. For whatever reason, my old Sandy Bridge board would POST and start to boot within about 3 seconds of power up. My Skylake board waits a good 10+ seconds after I press the button before I hear the beep and the video comes on. Same for restarts, slower than the Sandy Bridge for the "not actually booting" part. frown





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#4284067 - 08/02/16 04:36 PM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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Nope, definitely boots way, way slower! I'm hesitant to make a clean Win10 install for fear of losing my Win7 key.

Also, my SSD was seen by the OS yesterday, everything working fine. It's when I started "fixing" it that things went haywire. BIOS definitely does not see my Samsung SSD but my Cruicial M4 is there and so is my Samsung HDD. I can't crack open the case just yet because I'm on night shifts and I don't have the time and effort to do this. I can't seem to find a solution to this problem online; most problems are regarding installing a new SSD or their first SSD. My problem is that my PC sees one SSD but not the other, and neither SSDs are "new."

I know a lot of people speak highly of Win10 despite the original misgivings and I'm willing to give it an honest try, but I just don't want to lose my Win7 key.


- Ice
#4284068 - 08/02/16 04:40 PM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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Have you tried to run SFC /Scannow on an elevated Command Prompt?


If your Windows 10 Key is retail you will NEVER lose it. You just cannot install Windows 7 while you have an activated Windows 10 with that license.

Last edited by Bib4Tuna; 08/02/16 04:41 PM.
#4284071 - 08/02/16 05:00 PM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: Bib4Tuna]  
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Originally Posted By: Bib4Tuna
Have you tried to run SFC /Scannow on an elevated Command Prompt?

If your Windows 10 Key is retail you will NEVER lose it. You just cannot install Windows 7 while you have an activated Windows 10 with that license.


I'm doing that now, thanks. Never thought of doing that as I've never had this problem before.

As for the Win10 key, I know that once "registered," I can roll back to Win7 and I can upgrade to Win10 anytime in the future provided my HW stays the same (or at least the motherboard). However, I only have a month to decide whether to stay with Win10 or roll back... if I understand it correctly, after that month is up, I cannot go back to Win7 as my key is now tied to Win10 and Win10 only. Am I mistaken? Can I "roll back" to Win7 3-4 months from now, even if that "roll back" is a clean Win7 install?

EDIT: Nope, no integrity violations according to the scan. Rebooted the PC and still no SSD. I'm hoping this update would fix any problems otherwise I'm really going to be pissed....

Last edited by - Ice; 08/02/16 05:05 PM.

- Ice
#4284073 - 08/02/16 05:06 PM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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Originally Posted By: - Ice
Originally Posted By: Bib4Tuna
Have you tried to run SFC /Scannow on an elevated Command Prompt?

If your Windows 10 Key is retail you will NEVER lose it. You just cannot install Windows 7 while you have an activated Windows 10 with that license.


I'm doing that now, thanks. Never thought of doing that as I've never had this problem before.

As for the Win10 key, I know that once "registered," I can roll back to Win7 and I can upgrade to Win10 anytime in the future provided my HW stays the same (or at least the motherboard). However, I only have a month to decide whether to stay with Win10 or roll back... if I understand it correctly, after that month is up, I cannot go back to Win7 as my key is now tied to Win10 and Win10 only. Am I mistaken? Can I "roll back" to Win7 3-4 months from now, even if that "roll back" is a clean Win7 install?


That is not correct. The 30 days have nothing to do with the license.

If you keep your Windows.old directory after the update, then you have 30 days to run a rollback on the upgrade and go back to Windows 7. After 30 days, Windows 10 deletes the Windows.old folder to make space, and you cannot longer rollback the upgrade.

If you do a clean install or delete the Windows.old directory, then the 30 day thing does no longer apply.

Your Windows 7 key license is still valid, and you could do a clean install of Windows 7 anytime (until MS changes its mind) in cases where the Windows.old folder is not available. The only requisite is that the Windows 10 install you made with that license is no longer active.

Last edited by Bib4Tuna; 08/02/16 05:07 PM.
#4284074 - 08/02/16 05:07 PM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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Ah sweet! Any chance you can link me to where it says that in the MS website? I plan to make a screenshot of it. biggrin


- Ice
#4284078 - 08/02/16 05:12 PM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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#4284079 - 08/02/16 05:15 PM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/inst...-or-windows-8.1

I just found out that after July 29th, the rollback option is now 10 days.

Still, all else above applies. Your Win7 (or Win8.1) license will still be valid.

#4284086 - 08/02/16 05:44 PM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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Hmmm... I just noticed that System Restore is disabled in my PC... weird. Also, "Reset this PC" means it'll be like doing a clean install, only that my files won't be touched.... but I'll still need to re-install everything else (Adobe, MS Office, games, etc.) so that's not an option right now.

I guess seeing as it's August and my last cleanup was last December 2015, might be time for a clean wipe again. I was hoping to avoid this until next year.


- Ice
#4284088 - 08/02/16 05:48 PM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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Originally Posted By: - Ice
Hmmm... I just noticed that System Restore is disabled in my PC... weird.


Maybe related to the SSD not being visible? Was that SSD your boot drive before? Maybe the Windows.old folder was created there?


Also, Windows would not cause the BIOS to stop seeing your SSD. I suggest you check for BIOS update and make sure your BOOT order and drive priority is correct.

#4284092 - 08/02/16 05:57 PM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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No, the Crucial M4 is the OS SSD, the Samsung is the Games SSD and that's what's missing.

Boot order is correct, obviously AHCI is on as the Crucial M4 is recognized.


- Ice
#4284244 - 08/03/16 09:36 AM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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have you tried plugging the Samsung into another sata port ( on my old p67 board had 1 of the sata 3 ports die which gave the same as you are have ,plunged into another port and it worked fine)


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#4284288 - 08/03/16 01:07 PM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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Testing another SATA port is a good idea.


I would also download a Linux portable distro and burn a bootable disc or thumb drive, then boot with that and check your disk accessibility. I recently had a suspected HD on a new machine that was failing to boot a Windows install after a few hours. I used Linux from a thumb drive to run diagnostics on the disc, and confirmed it had physical damage.

I recommend the Linux Mint installer - it will create the bootable media and it is easy to use for Windows users -\\

https://www.linuxmint.com/download.php

https://www.linuxmint.com/edition.php?id=217


Last edited by Bib4Tuna; 08/03/16 01:23 PM.
#4284403 - 08/03/16 06:03 PM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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Hmmm... if my SATA port went kaput, won't that be grounds for a refund/replacement? This is a new motherboard, only got it last December.

I do hope it's the SATA and not the SSD though.


- Ice
#4284770 - 08/04/16 05:58 PM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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Getting ready for a clean install. I've decided to go back to Win7. Maybe give Win10 another year or two to mature before going back. I remember when Win7 was coming out, there was overwhelming positive reviews about it (or the RC) that I did not think twice about getting Win7. This does not seem to be the case with Win10, with people clearly divided between staying with Win7/8/8.1 vs. those that say Win10 has been smooth sailing for them despite what others say.

I have one other PC on Win10 and both laptops are on Win10 so I'll be having my fair share of troubleshooting the damn thing. I just don't want the hassle with my gaming PC. Already on two occasions now, the PC would re-boot despite being told to shut down. On my desktop, there are a few "$xxxxx" folders that are "hidden" but I see them because I've set it that way. Almost every folder has a desktop.ini file. I can't upgrade to the "Anniversary Edition" because it doesn't show up as an upgrade option... just Windows Defender virus definitions all the time. I just can't be bothered with learning this new OS at this time. I just need to get back to gaming, and I'll be looking at Win10 again later on when stuff has been sorted out.


- Ice
#4284821 - 08/04/16 08:00 PM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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Windows 7 is a great operating system, and you are all right and all going back to it.


Just want to say that Windows 10 IS a mature Operating System. It has been out for 2 years (one as a release candidate).

Everyone had a chance to test it and provide feedback. There has never been a more "crowd developed" OS.

Problems always happen with software, by many reasons. Before Windows 10, people still had issues with Windows 7. You just happen not to have them, like I do not have issues with Windows 10 now.


Last edited by Bib4Tuna; 08/04/16 08:01 PM.
#4284841 - 08/04/16 09:27 PM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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Okay, so Win10 has been out for 2 years now, 1 year as RC, 1 year (last year) as start of free upgrade. That makes it even worse.

There is still a great divide between users, at least those that I can see in terms of gaming. That was not the case when Win7 transitioned from RC to proper release, again, at least those that I saw in terms of gaming. IIRC, Win7 was "so good" that people gave it glowing reviews off of the Win7 RC and even people who were still on WinXP were saying that was their next OS. I'm not seeing that in Win10.

Win7 may have issues that have not affected me, or I'm just lucky enough to have issues with Win10... twice just this evening, I shut down the computer only to have it restart on me. I have to hold down the power button to turn it off properly. Never had that problem with Win7, and even as an ignorant computer user, I should NOT have that problem with a "mature" OS. Also, this was the main issue I had earlier that I was looking to "fix," which ended up me losing my Gaming SSD. Not only did the "fix" not fix it, it made my situation worse.

Maybe it's not fair of me to compare an "upgraded" OS install (Win10 was installed on top of Win7) to a clean Win7 install, but then this boils down to whether I should waste more time "testing" Win10. Making me have to open up my PC and do all this work does not put this OS on my good books. Making me have to clean install an OS 8 months after I just did that does not put this OS on my good books. /end rant/


- Ice
#4284868 - 08/04/16 11:55 PM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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Originally Posted By: - Ice
Nope, definitely boots way, way slower! I'm hesitant to make a clean Win10 install for fear of losing my Win7 key...


W10 was the fastest for me of all Windows OS (by a little bit) -- after install on a clean drive. However, I now have so much stuff on my main system, boot still takes quite a while.

I had your fear when moving W10 from an SSD to a hard drive on one of my computers -- just yesterday. Originally, the computer was W8 that got the free W10 upgrade.

I Googled. I read that W10 is different. When you upgraded from W7 or W8, it kept a record of your hardware (somewhere on Earth). If you do a clean install, it merely checks to see if your hardware is already registered. That registration happens automatically, they said. Its user friendly. They said that minor hardware mods would not eliminate the valid registration. A major mod may invalidate -- but, that can be fixed with a phone call (I've made the call a couple times with W7 systems).

So, since I still had Windows 10 on the SSD and in a system image (as a fall back I could just reconnect the SSD), I disconnected the SSD and did a clean W10 install on the HD. I happened to use a fresh copy of Windows 10 on a USB Flash Drive. It went without a hitch. I was never asked for authorization. I checked the new Windows 10 install status. It said the install was "authorized".

Today, it updated to the Anniversary Edition.

Having said all that, I don't know enough to guarantee anything. I'll just say I personally am no longer worried about a clean W10 install on a machine that's been running authorized W10.

For what its worth.


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#4284896 - 08/05/16 02:16 AM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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Thanks for your input Allen! Yes, the reason I jumped on Win10 was to "secure" my copy of Win10 before the "free upgrade" window went out. I guess that is done now and I can safely return to Win7 knowing I can install Win10 in the future.

I need to ask this to all who have chosen to stay with Win10.... what does Win10 have that made you choose it over Win7/8/8.1? Sure, it may be the latest OS, some may even argue it's as-good-as-or-better-than Win7, so if that's your argument, I guess you are also willing to "learn" the new Win10 UI. But what reasons do other people have?


- Ice
#4284904 - 08/05/16 03:00 AM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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I was "thrusted" into Windows 10 more than wanting to adopt it. My plan last year was to upgrade after the Anniversary update. Then, one week before the free offer started, my Mobo died, so I decided it was time for a new build. I had only an upgrade disk from Win 7 at hand, and did not wanted to spend a lot on the new build. So I installed from scratch and logged in with a Microsoft Insider account. Eventually got a proper license, and the rest is history.

Now I have 2 desktops, one laptop, and one Surface Pro tablet from work, all on Windows 10.

Notice I never upgraded from 7 to 10. all my machines are clean installed. I restored my non Steam games from backup, and reading here and there in the message boards, got them all running. All Steam games work so far, some even better than before. Have yet to find one that runs worse.

I would not list the UI as a big hurdle to get into the OS. You change it, even with the native options to look just like (or as close as possible) to Windows 7. Yes, you have to learn your way around it a little, like any new OS. I don't use Cortana or Store Apps. You can have some control of the Privacy settings, but honestly, MS is not getting any more than Google or Apple are getting. All the old stuff from 7 is still there, you just need to learn how to find it. File management is much better.



One small feature I love, is that you can sync your machines with your account, so if you change machines, your desktop changes move with you.

But under the hood, this is where this OS shines - With proper drivers, W10 manages your hardware better than W7. Better Bus and memory management. My CPU runs even cooler under 10. And not that big of a deal, but it does boot much faster. I really like the security options.

No one believes this, but I swear it is true - of my 4 machines, one of them which has been running since last year with W10, I had 0 BSODs from the OS. I've had the computer lock up a couple of times while learning to configure older games, but I can easily recover every time.

I dunno if anyone else did, but I remember when 7 came out, and there were a few PC enthusiast magazines still around, and I bought a couple of thick special issues telling all the "tips and tricks" of Windows 7. Now with the internet search, is much faster and easier to learn it. You just Google for"how do I ________ in W10?" and there you go.

We use W7 on staff machines at work, and as long as I am the SA, that is not going to change. it is a good enough OS and we have no need to upgrade. But when I get home, I am happier to be using Windows 10.

Last edited by Bib4Tuna; 08/05/16 03:05 AM.
#4284916 - 08/05/16 04:12 AM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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The fun and games continue. I tried booting from my original Win7 disk.... it would start up, "load" the files, then I get stuck in the "starting Windows" screen. 10 minutes and no progress. Hmmm... Disk must be scratched... nope. Maybe it's deteriorated. Downloaded a Win7 SP1 ISO from the Windows website, burned it onto a new DVD, had the program verify the disc before ejecting, all good. Same problem. Maybe Win10 is blocking my mojo, so I roll back to Win7. Ah, how I miss that startup screen, which is funny since it has only been around a week. Startup again.... and same problem as above.

As I type this, my PC's been "starting Windows" for 15 minutes now. Fun times.


- Ice
#4284919 - 08/05/16 04:19 AM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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I remember something like that happening with my last OS disk install.

With the ISO you downloaded, use this to create a bootable thumb drive and try again: https://rufus.akeo.ie/

#4284920 - 08/05/16 04:33 AM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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Yeah, that's my next step. I stopped using the Win7 disc after posting and tried the Win10 disc I used to update my laptops.... more than 10 minutes of the rotating circles and no joy at all. Is my DVD drive busted? I would not think so because I just burned the Win10 disc last week and also burned the Win7 disc just now.


- Ice
#4284928 - 08/05/16 06:58 AM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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For reference, how long should it take to boot from USB? I configured my BIOS to look for the USB drive and I'm now booting from USB and I know for sure that the USB port and USB drive are working because I used these to copy-paste from PC-to-USB-drive to copy the files from one computer to another. However, it's been 10 minutes now and still stuck at the twirling circles screen. I've put the "Anniversary Edition" Win10 copy in the USB drive.


- Ice
#4284941 - 08/05/16 08:26 AM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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22 minutes from Boot to being able to pick install language. Great!

What I'm wondering now is if this is an OS problem or am I having issues with my motherboard?


- Ice
#4284943 - 08/05/16 08:37 AM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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Is the Samsung drive that was giving problems still connected ? if so try unplugging it and try again with just the one drive connected,if the
Samsung is failing it can slow the whole system down to a crawl.


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#4284947 - 08/05/16 08:47 AM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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I've gotta be honest Ice,this sounds like you have more problems than just an errant O/S.


EV's are the Devils matchbox.
#4285004 - 08/05/16 01:18 PM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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Entil'zha
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Yeah, super long boot times usually indicate a hardware problem. First disconnect everything you don't need, strip it down to mobo, CPU, RAM, video, single drive, and mouse/kb. If it still does it, you know it's one of those parts. If it doesn't, add them back one at a time.




The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#4285050 - 08/05/16 02:20 PM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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Well, the reason I initially suspected OS was because this all started with the Win10 install. I've tried to avoid opening up my case as I'd need to pull the desk away from the wall, undo all the wire tidying that I've done, etc. but I guess no avoiding it now. 3x tried to install now but keep getting error code 0x8007025D.

Fun times. mycomputer


- Ice
#4285084 - 08/05/16 04:06 PM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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Sorry to hear about your problems Ice and I really hope you haven't lost any data and can get it back! Just read on a Swedish forum that one guy says he lost all data on a 8TB HDD after the update - WOW! If this is what really happend it's a prime example why force fed updates is a really really bad idea and MS have shot themselves in the foot big time!

Unfortunatly it seems he's not alone (first link is to Swedish forum so may not be so usefull just wanted to include it for reference)....

http://www.sweclockers.com/forum/trad/14...e-raderade-data

http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/08/windows-10-anniversary-update-delete-partition

http://www.tenforums.com/windows-10-news...html#post758451

Really hope you can get it sorted and/or have a full backup, if not I would be more than pissed!

PS: Not using W10 myself - and very happy I stayed on W7 - so didn't dig deep into above threads and hopefully someone found a solution.

Last edited by KeyCat; 08/05/16 04:51 PM.

>> It's all about teamwork! <<
#4285129 - 08/05/16 06:14 PM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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Okay, opened up the PC, disconnected the HDD and second SSD, and the PC works like normal now. Maybe 2 minutes or so from pressing the On switch and being able to install something. Since I'm in the "testing" mode anyway, I decided to clean install Win10. So far, so good. Quick boot times. I've not really timed my old Win7 boot time, but Win10 is right there or maybe even quicker.... but then again, I'm comparing a 8-month old Win7 boot time to a fresh-install Win10. Still, it was way quicker than before, so I'm happy.

I start updating stuff, and then realize that I'm still stuck on the pre-Anniversary edition Win10.... no amount of "Windows Update" checks will install it. Read online, found an online "forced" update, but get a 0x80070057 error. I just typed that error number from memory too, I've been seeing it a lot! So forced updates won't work, went online again to find a solution, regedit fixes won't work and for some reason, I can't do the gpedit.msc fixes people keep talking about. My computer does not recognize the "gpedit.msc" command. So now I'm downloading an Anniversary Update ISO, I'll burn that to disc, then re-wipe my SSD drive again.

I did say fun and games, didn't I?

mycomputer


- Ice
#4285131 - 08/05/16 06:17 PM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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Glad to hear you didn't loose any data.


>> It's all about teamwork! <<
#4285139 - 08/05/16 06:31 PM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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Not from the OS SSD, no. Plus I "relocated" my Docs/Downloads/etc. to the HDD anyway. I'm not sure about the Games SSD, I've not tried to access it again yet, but if I did lose data there, it'll be save games or game installs which is no biggie and would be a perfect reason for me to replay the game! biggrin


- Ice
#4285166 - 08/05/16 07:55 PM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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Well, it's official. My Samsung 840 SSD is dead. Kaput. Annoyingly, it only survived 3 years and 4 months.... guess how long the standard warranty is? 3 years. So is this how SSDs die? They just stop working? IIRC, HDDs would show a little erratic behavior first before dying.

I'll try to ring up Samsung tomorrow anyway, see if there's anything they can do for me.

What peeves me more though is that my OS SSD, a Crucial M4, is almost a year older than the Samsung and is still going. Really disappointed with Samsung, which is a pity as my HDD is a Samsung Spinpoint F3 that is 6 years old and also the reason I bought a Samsung SSD in the first place. Anyone got any SSD recommendations?

I'm currently looking for ways to salvage this; fingers crossed I can secure-erase it and still use it.


- Ice
#4285172 - 08/05/16 08:15 PM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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Anything with electronic components can just drop dead for sure.... power surge (often happens when turning ON), heat, bad solderings, connector issues due to corrosion (SP?), mechanical force to components/PCB, bad luck but in your case I would not totally coun't it out yet and try to get the data back. Why? A SSD's wear and tear don't make it just die it's progressive, and due to the above cases with lost data in conjunction with the W10 update.

Just trying to help wink

Last edited by KeyCat; 08/05/16 08:18 PM.

>> It's all about teamwork! <<
#4285182 - 08/05/16 08:35 PM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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SSD's do die all of a sudden. There is no degradation of the solid staty parts. In a mechanical HD, you get magnetic degradation, head wear, mechanical failure. All those can show over time.

And SSD is similar to a flash dive in this respect. You are saving states on silicon. The controller can fry, the silicon chip has a limited amount of read and writes over time until it just cannot keep a charge enough to keep the data.

Would installing an OS on a different drive prompt it to die? It is unlikely, but not impossible.

Something similar happened when I tried to install an older GPU card I had stored in perfect condition a year ago on a new machine. Plug it in, boot, all is working. Install drivers, reboot....card dies.

Last edited by Bib4Tuna; 08/05/16 08:37 PM.
#4285185 - 08/05/16 08:37 PM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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I'm not finding anything regarding getting anything back from the SSD. BIOS does not see it, Windows does not see it, and I just installed Magician and that's no good either. I'm guessing the BIOS/OS is TRYING to locate it.... startups with the SSD plugged in takes 8-10 minutes so something is happening somewhere. I just can't figure out how to access/salvage the SSD.

Pity as most reviews point that Samsung SSDs are really good and I'm quite annoyed that the 840 series (non-Pro) only have 3 years warranty while the newer ones go up to 5 years.


- Ice
#4285190 - 08/05/16 09:00 PM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: Bib4Tuna]  
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Originally Posted By: Bib4Tuna
SSD's do die all of a sudden. There is no degradation of the solid staty parts.


I'm not trying to get the last word but I know exactly the "health" of my Samsung 950 PRO M.2 256 GB SSD by using Samsung Magician software included with the SSD. It show exactly how many bytes I've written to the SSD as well as other S.M.A.R.T data and there is a max mumber of bytes u can write - thats degradation but as I said any electronics can drop dead due to many reasons.

As far as I know you this relates to writing to the SSD, you should always be able to read back the data even if you surpassed number of writes. However as I said anything with electronics can drop dead anytime but it seems very strange it correlates with Ice W10 update.

So in short, I disagree with ya... but damn Bruce Springsteen is good (listening to Ghost of Tom Joad) smile

Last edited by KeyCat; 08/05/16 10:23 PM.

>> It's all about teamwork! <<
#4285210 - 08/05/16 10:22 PM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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Basically, it shouldn't have died from "natural causes" just yet. It's my gaming drive so very little gets written on it after the initial install. I'm guessing some freak electrical accident must've been the cause. I **HAD** been binge-watching The Flash after all. biggrin I'm starting to get worried about my Cruicial M4 now though. I had always operated under the idea that even with their "shorter lifespans," the average user should see a good 5+ years of service out of these things.



- Ice
#4285228 - 08/05/16 10:36 PM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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In my opinion no.

Here is the info for my Samsung 950 Pro and I guess your Samsung was pretty close to this specs....

Quote:
When it comes to endurance, the 950 PRO, built on the V-NAND technology, is designed to handle up
to 400 terabytes written
(TBW) or to guarantee 5-year limited warranty, whichever comes first.
Ensure endurance and reliability for maximum use


Checking my stats in Samsung Magician I've written 0.5 TB after 6+ months use as an W7 OS disk. Thats very long time until I hit 400 TB writes to my SSD. I will be dead and 6 feet under before that happens copter

Now he plays "Johnny 99" and are equally good! Sorry for rum induced influenses - but damn he is good biggrin

Last edited by KeyCat; 08/05/16 11:30 PM.

>> It's all about teamwork! <<
#4285257 - 08/06/16 12:03 AM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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Well, according to the warranty website, the smallest TBW is 35 for a 128GB 750 SSD. That's 11TBW per year over the 3 year warranty period. On a 128GB SSD. That's like filling the SSD then emptying it 88x per year for 3 years. Even for a gaming SSD, I'm quite sure I've not done that much to it.

Now I need to decide what the replacement SSD will be. It'll most likely be another Samsung as they seem to be the leader in this field, maybe an 850 EVO or 850 PRO, 256GB. I'd like the 5-year warranty this time (10-year for PRO).


- Ice
#4285333 - 08/06/16 11:16 AM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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Given the title of this thread, I timed my system startup with a stopwatch, for what its worth. My system drive is a 500GB SSD. CPU is 8 core FX9590 at 4.7 to 5.0GHz.

I pressed the Computer main power button and pressed the stopwatch start button.

Motherboard BIOS POST: 33 seconds -- lots of hard drives and stuff on my machine. At this point, the Windows 10 software begins Windows Startup activity.

Windows Asks for Password: 45 seconds -- that's 12 additional seconds to above.

At Desktop Ready to Use: 49 seconds -- an additional 4 seconds. A couple programs continue initiating for a few seconds. But, with 8 cores, I can do stuff at this point.

So, all in all, Windows 10 took up 16 seconds. My BIOS and Motherboard took up 33 seconds.

To put it in perspective, I timed Steam startup (Steam on an HD) -- 44 seconds -- now, that's slow smile

With a clean system, things are noticeably faster. But, I have a lot of stuff. These waits are only "once a day" so, they are very acceptable to me.

Historically, SSDs have high failure rates compared to good Hard Drives. However, we use Samsung SSDs as main system drives in our several computers and have not yet had a failure. A couple machines get used constantly all day -- the others only do "spot duty".



Sapphire Pulse RX7900XTX, 3 monitors = 23P (1080p) + SAMSUNG 32" Odyssey Neo G7 1000R curve (4K/2160p) + 23P (1080p), AMD R9-7950X (ARCTIC Liquid Freezer II 420), 64GB RAM@6.0GHz, Gigabyte X670E AORUS MASTER MB, (4x M.2 SSD + 2xSSD + 2xHD) = ~52TB storage, EVGA 1600W PSU, Phanteks Enthoo Pro Full Tower, ASUS RT-AX89X 6000Mbps WiFi router, VKB Gladiator WW2 Stick, Pedals, G.Skill RGB KB, AORUS Thunder M7 Mouse, W11 Pro
#4285350 - 08/06/16 01:44 PM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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Thanks Allen! Given the title of this thread, Win10 now boots up "acceptably" now. Not bothered to time it but like I said, it's more or less the same as my Win7 boot. My damaged SSD was indeed the culprit. frown

Can you tell me what Seagate SSDs you are using exactly? I am also thinking, are the speed differences between various SSD types really noticeable in real-world applications? Do I spend the extra money for a 256GB 850 Pro (Read 550MB/s, Write 520MB/s, 100k/90k IOPS) or should I settle for the cheaper 250GB 850 Evo (Read 540MB/s, Write 520MB/s, 97k/88k IOPS)? Will I really miss that 3k/2k IOPS difference for a £36 price difference? Or for £10 more, I could up my capacity to a 480GB SanDisk SSD PLUS (Read 480MB/s, Write 400MB/s) or a 480GB SanDisk Z410 (Read 535MB/s, Write 445MB/s, 35k/69k IOPS)... Capacity is a big thing; I can install more games on it, but I'm not really sure how the difference in MB/s or IOPS affects real-world use.


- Ice
#4285388 - 08/06/16 04:44 PM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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I posted Seagate SSD in ERROR. I use Seagate HD and Samsung SSD. Sorry. I had Seagate on my mind for another reason.

We have mostly 120GB and 240GB Samsung 840 EVO. My main system uses 500GB 850 EVO for OS and 500GB 840 EVO for games. In summary, I think 120GB works but is marginal for a system SSD (which should be left half empty). 240GB is the sweet spot. 500GB and up is for bragging rights (or for lots of applications that actually need fast drive access).

I truly don't think the speed difference between the fast Samsungs and slow Samsung is worth it -- or even noticeable because start up of the system and games depends on more than the SSD. However, an SSD does give "visibly" faster startup of system and games vs a hard drive (as we know).

Even if something fails, I may not use the warranty (if failure is a couple years down the line).

So, I get the cheap Samsungs.


Sapphire Pulse RX7900XTX, 3 monitors = 23P (1080p) + SAMSUNG 32" Odyssey Neo G7 1000R curve (4K/2160p) + 23P (1080p), AMD R9-7950X (ARCTIC Liquid Freezer II 420), 64GB RAM@6.0GHz, Gigabyte X670E AORUS MASTER MB, (4x M.2 SSD + 2xSSD + 2xHD) = ~52TB storage, EVGA 1600W PSU, Phanteks Enthoo Pro Full Tower, ASUS RT-AX89X 6000Mbps WiFi router, VKB Gladiator WW2 Stick, Pedals, G.Skill RGB KB, AORUS Thunder M7 Mouse, W11 Pro
#4285459 - 08/07/16 12:21 AM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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Thanks for clarifying, Allen. And yes, the Samsung won't be for OS anyway but for games.... or maybe I'll transfer the OS to the new SSD and use the old Crucial for games... I'm not sure yet.

I'm now on Win10 Anniversary Edition (ver. 1607, build 14393.10) and..... my main game at the moment, Stardew Valley, does not run properly on it. It skips between 60 fps where things run smoothly, then goes to 40-44 fps and the game looks and feels very sluggish. I'm reading that this is a known but in the game but the people who report it fail to mention what OS they are running. I'm not having issues with War Thunder on this OS at this moment. Dammit... do I install Win7 or Win10 (non-AE) just to see if Stardew Valley will work? I'm sure it was fine in Win7, before all this crap went down and took the install directory with it!! banghead


- Ice
#4285715 - 08/08/16 01:48 PM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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Entil'zha
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HDs are mature tech. They've been around for decades. They still fail, but their reliability is pretty good by now.

SSDs are still new. It's been less than 5 years they've been really consumer-oriented. I think it's to be expected that they have lower reliability. As for the failure modes, yeah, it sucks that unlike an HD that can slowly degrade and give you time to get data off and replace it it seems to have only the "working" and "dead" states, but that's the price we pay for better performance.



The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#4285914 - 08/08/16 11:53 PM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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The Nephilim Offline
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Hey Ice, did you upgrade the firmware for thisd SSD?? It is a Samsung?? IF so I had done that and when I sent it back in they put in the old Firmware and been running like a champ since then.. so long story short if you upgraded the firmware that could be an issue..


Intel i7 10700K @ 4.8GHZ / ASRock Z590 Phantom Gaming 4AC Motherboard / Asus 1080GTX OC / SoundBlaster Z / Windows 10 64bit / Reverb G2 VR Gear. / Thrustmaster Cougar + MFD's / Buttkicker Simulation / Thrustmaster Cougar
#4285917 - 08/09/16 12:13 AM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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Nope, not updated anything that I know of.


- Ice
#4288906 - 08/20/16 06:35 AM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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i've never faced this problem of slow boot. it could be a hardware issue. Switch back to 7 can't resolve this problem, you may need to change your mother board to get rid of this problem.

#4289048 - 08/21/16 01:31 AM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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It was confirmed to be a hardware issue, see the posts above.


- Ice
#4348393 - 04/01/17 08:28 PM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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Well, fun and games comes up again. Opened up the PC today to install a new fan and wondered why it wouldn't boot up. Go to BIOS and discover that the OS SSD (Crucial M4) is now no longer recognized. Tried a new SATA cable on a different SATA port. No go. Tried a different power cable. No go. Unplugged my 850 Evo and plugged the Crucial on that spot, still no go.

[curses and expletives!!]

The disc had no issues at all prior to shut down. I had a few documents and pictures that I had kept on the desktop for easy accessibility.... gone now unless I find some way to put life into the SSD. The biggest annoyance is that I was looking at PCIe NVME or M.2 SATA drives when I was ordering my case fan and decided that I didn't need one yet as I wasn't having issues with my PC. I guess I was tempting fate there.


- Ice
#4348415 - 04/01/17 10:26 PM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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What is this? Is my PC playing an April Fool's joke on me?

Like I said earlier, the Crucial M4 wasn't showing up in BIOS or in Disk Management in both PCs (new i5 6600K and old i5 750) so it was dead. DEAD. I decided to open up the SSD, just curious to see the inside, nothing burnt or looked worn, so I re-assembled the SSD. 4 screws, one of which was under a warranty sticker... this thing is almost 5 years old so I doubt it was still under warranty.... checked the Crucial website and it said 3 years. So nothing to lose and I'd was able to see the inside of an SSD. Just out of curiousity, I re-connected it to the i5 750 PC, booted it up, and to my surprise, it booted up from the Crucial M4 SSD!! It's ALIVE!!

Plugged it back into my i5 6600K PC and it starts up like nothing's happened. 4 freaking hours of troubleshooting, trying different SATA cables, different power cables, and then it just boots up like nothing's even happened! I do notice my drive letters have been swapped for the E: and D: drives, but that's about it. Ran Samsung Magician... but the new interface gives less info than the old one, but suffice to say, it didn't detect any errors. C-prompt (wmic diskdrive get status) also declares all drives OK.

WHAT IS HAPPENING HERE???!?!!?!!

I'm reluctant to trust this SSD any more... the plan was to "retire" it and put it on my son's PC (the i5 750 one), install Win10 on it, and keep the bare minimum on the drive itself. I think I'll do that sooner (next week) rather than later.


- Ice
#4348534 - 04/02/17 12:41 PM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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Ran Crystal Disk Info and here's the result:
[Linked Image]


So the SSD should have YEARS of life left in it, if I've only got it down to 97% in 5 years...


- Ice
#4348763 - 04/03/17 03:01 PM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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Entil'zha
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I have seen instances in the past of devices that needed to "discharge" before they would work properly. Unplug it all. Let it sit. Connect it back up to all but the power cord, press the power button. Any charge in the caps should hopefully go away.
Now reconnect as normal and power up. Voila!

It's especially handy on laptops that won't boot. Unplug from power AND remove battery. Press power button (naturally nothing happens). Reconnect battery/power cord, retry.



The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#4348776 - 04/03/17 03:59 PM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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Paradaz Offline
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That says % lifetime used!

Surely, if you've used 97% of it's lifespan, it's almost ready for its funeral!! boom


On the Eighth day God created Paratroopers and the Devil stood to attention.
#4348782 - 04/03/17 04:11 PM Re: Win10 slow to boot? [Re: - Ice]  
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Indeed!! It would be so funny if my old SSD suddenly powered up....


- Ice
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