#4282344 - 07/27/16 12:29 PM
Languages in historical films
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PanzerMeyer
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A friend of mine at work made an interesting comment yesterday about the film "Gladiator". He said "Wouldn't the film have been more historically accurate had the actors all been speaking Latin?". I dwelled on that question for a bit and then realized that the film would have been no more accurate because modern day scholars have no accurate idea of how Classical Latin was pronounced. Everything that we modern audiences understand as spoken Latin is really the "Church Latin" that evolved several centuries later. I did some more research on this and found out that the Latin you hear spoken in "The Passion of the Christ" is not the Latin that would have been spoken during the time of Caesar Augustus but is in fact "Church Latin" which came much later. Fascinating stuff.
Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 07/27/16 01:08 PM.
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
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#4282360 - 07/27/16 01:17 PM
Re: Languages in historical films
[Re: PanzerMeyer]
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Peally
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#4282369 - 07/27/16 01:39 PM
Re: Languages in historical films
[Re: PanzerMeyer]
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Jedi Master
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I think that was a success despite not being in English, not because of it. "What's it about? Nah, I know that story. Wait, it's NOT in English but all historical languages?? I'm IN!!!" said no one. The Jedi Master
The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
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#4282430 - 07/27/16 04:43 PM
Re: Languages in historical films
[Re: VF9_Longbow]
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PanzerMeyer
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another gladiator trivia point is that the barbarians at the start of the movie were apparently speaking portuguese and made some rather rough remarks about mothers..!
Seeing as no one has any idea what the language of the Marcomanni tribe sounded like I can kind of forgive the makers of the film for that but they could have at least used modern German instead.
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
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#4282438 - 07/27/16 05:05 PM
Re: Languages in historical films
[Re: PanzerMeyer]
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kludger
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another gladiator trivia point is that the barbarians at the start of the movie were apparently speaking portuguese and made some rather rough remarks about mothers..!
Seeing as no one has any idea what the language of the Marcomanni tribe sounded like I can kind of forgive the makers of the film for that but they could have at least used modern German instead. Interesting, Portuguese and the other Romance languages outside of Italy (French, Romanian etc) came about as a local pidgin "creole" versions of the Latin spoken by the local inhabitants conquered by the Romans... So depending on whether those gladiators were true barbarians from elsewhere or just enslaved colonized citizens from the Iberian peninsula, the Portuguese might not be far off from what they would have spoken, especially since the movie takes place in AD180 and the area of Portugal was conquered by Rome in about 200BC, so that's plenty of time for the locals to pick up the local Latin dialect.
Last edited by kludger; 07/27/16 05:57 PM.
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#4282445 - 07/27/16 05:31 PM
Re: Languages in historical films
[Re: kludger]
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PanzerMeyer
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So depending on whether those gladiators were true barbarians from elsewhere or just enslaved colonized citizens from the Iberian peninsula, the Portuguese might not be far off from what they would have spoken, especially since the movie takes place in AD180 and the area of Portugal was conquered by Rome in about 200BC, so that's plenty of time for the locals to pick up the local Latin dialect.
I think Longbow was referring to the opening battle in Germania during the Marcomannic War. Right before the battle starts you see the Germanic chieftain standing in front of his men and he shouts out something to the Romans. Great post anyway though!
Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 07/27/16 05:35 PM.
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
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#4282446 - 07/27/16 05:56 PM
Re: Languages in historical films
[Re: PanzerMeyer]
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kludger
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I think Longbow was referring to the opening battle in Germania during the Marcomannic War. Right before the battle starts you see the Germanic chieftain standing in front of his men and he shouts out something to the Romans.
Great post anyway though!
Ah ok I thought it was one of the gladiators, but yeah if it was the Germanic barbarians in that awesome battle then Portuguese would not make much sense. Reminds me that I need to rewatch this awesome movie very soon, been too many years since I last saw it.
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#4282454 - 07/27/16 06:22 PM
Re: Languages in historical films
[Re: PanzerMeyer]
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kludger
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I think it would be cool to see a Roman historical movie where the actors spoke Latin at least in some parts of the movie. When I was a kid in Portugal in the 70s, I remember Latin was a language taught in school, and Catholic mass was in Latin and I always felt a special sense of awe and historical link to the Romans from that. When sitting in mass watching the priests I would always think that these were the exact same words and liturgy spoken for thousands of years, going all the way back to the Romans when Constantine made it an official religion. When I moved to the States at age 9 and I first went to Catholic mass here, I was disappointed to find that it was in English, with none of that familiar and special Latin liturgy, and somehow without that it lost a lot of that special and historical feel to me, the mass felt not much different from the protestant masses I attended with school friends and while in the Army. So I think having sequences of Latin spoken in Roman movies would be pretty cool and like watching WWII movies where Hitler speaks German, adds to the historical feel, not sure if Latin is still taught in school in Europe so it might be hard to find actors who speak it. To this day I still think Joaquin Phoenix should have won the best supporting actor Oscar. He was just so brilliant. +1 he was terrific, his best role
Last edited by kludger; 07/27/16 06:26 PM.
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#4282455 - 07/27/16 06:25 PM
Re: Languages in historical films
[Re: kludger]
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PanzerMeyer
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like watching WWII movies where Hitler speaks German, You reminded me of this film, http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070184/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_23Alec Guinness was a magnificent actor but it was kind of funny hearing Hitler speak with an upper class English accent.
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
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#4282464 - 07/27/16 06:54 PM
Re: Languages in historical films
[Re: Dunolde]
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PanzerMeyer
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I do remember though, that the big guy with the long hammer yelled out: Rmische Hunde!, sometime just before the
battle. That is good contemporary German and/or a phrase that has not changed over the centuries.
That's exactly what I'm referring to! Ah, so he did say something in German and not Portuguese after all. I haven't watched the film in a while so my memory was a bit foggy on what he said.
Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 07/27/16 06:59 PM.
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
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#4282465 - 07/27/16 06:58 PM
Re: Languages in historical films
[Re: FlashBurn]
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PanzerMeyer
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Which begs the question what in the hell where the British tribes speaking there in the south?
You mean before the Romans came to Britain? That's an excellent question. There were tribes like the Iceni and the Dumnones in that area but I have no idea if their languages served as a foundation for future languages like Gaelic.
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
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