I just seen another list of the top 10 tanks and T-34 was first (link if interested http://www.kickassfacts.com/top-ten-military-tanks/ ) and frankly I don't know enough about the matter to speak intelligently but wasn't the T-34 just the right tank for the job but kinda an average tank?
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Depends on whether you are looking at purely the technical aspects of the tank or you are looking at the influence it had during the war. In 1941 the T-34/76 was technically superior to anything the Germans had but the German tank crews were better trained and the German tanks all had radios.
By 1943 the T34/85 was technically inferior to either the Tiger or the Panther but the training level of the Russian tank crews was much higher and the leadership much more effective.
A truly "average" tank was the M4 Sherman but so many were built that its shortcomings were mitigated.
Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 06/23/1607:35 PM.
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
We had a similar topic a while ago.I'm sure I remember the T-34 having a very poor kill ratio.However by a pure numbers advantage it overwhelmed the superior German tanks.
Whether it should be on the top of a top 10 list,well that's debatable.
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Lifer
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It was the right tank doing the right job at the right time - and it had everything one could ask for in a MBT.
Easy to produce - nothing super special about its construction, it could be made in large numbers with consistent quality. Easy to maintain - if the pack blew, the crew itself could change it out with a minimum of field assistance. Ditto the tracks, road wheels, turret, etc. Compare it to the German stuff, which by comparison was a Swiss watch. Good armor - it could take a hit from anything but an 88mm. Good mobility - T-34's rarely got bogged down in crap terrain, and were fast for the time. Good firepower - the main gun, particularly the 85mm, was up to the task of taking on German armor.
Good logistical tail - as we saw late in the war, a tank is a useless pillbox if it doesn't have a robust system to bring it parts, ammo, fuel and oil. The Soviet's, thanks to the seed of American lend-lease, were sending streams of Sudebaker trucks full of everything needed to keep the fight going forward.
Which is the better tank - the light M4 Sherman with its so-so gun and not great armor or the King Tiger II, the premier heavy battle tank produced at the end of the war by the Germans?
Forget the stats. The M4 has fuel, ammo, parts, and is part of a full unit that is part of a cohesive command, while the King Tiger II had none of those things.
The M4 wins.
The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.
It was the right tank doing the right job at the right time - and it had everything one could ask for in a MBT.
Easy to produce - nothing super special about its construction, it could be made in large numbers with consistent quality. Easy to maintain - if the pack blew, the crew itself could change it out with a minimum of field assistance. Ditto the tracks, road wheels, turret, etc. Compare it to the German stuff, which by comparison was a Swiss watch. Good armor - it could take a hit from anything but an 88mm. Good mobility - T-34's rarely got bogged down in crap terrain, and were fast for the time. Good firepower - the main gun, particularly the 85mm, was up to the task of taking on German armor.
Good logistical tail - as we saw late in the war, a tank is a useless pillbox if it doesn't have a robust system to bring it parts, ammo, fuel and oil. The Soviet's, thanks to the seed of American lend-lease, were sending streams of Sudebaker trucks full of everything needed to keep the fight going forward.
Which is the better tank - the light M4 Sherman with its so-so gun and not great armor or the King Tiger II, the premier heavy battle tank produced at the end of the war by the Germans?
Forget the stats. The M4 has fuel, ammo, parts, and is part of a full unit that is part of a cohesive command, while the King Tiger II had none of those things.
The M4 wins.
Then in 1943 the Sherman got the QF 17 pounder (76.2mm) which put the gun on level or better terms than the German 88.
Chlanna nan con thigibh a so's gheibh sibh feoil Sons of the hound come here and get flesh Clan Cameron
Joined: Apr 2001 Posts: 121,489PanzerMeyer
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Yes, the Sherman "Firefly" was a huge improvement over the standard M4.
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
Wars aren't decided by comparing stats, if they were no one would die and everyone could just go home as soon as it started because the result would be known.
The list of things that can allow an "inferior" group to beat a "superior" one is as long as the list of reasons wars start in the first place. It all boils down to luck, skill, and equipment working in favor of the winner. Doesn't matter if they would lose instantly in a 1v1 match up, because wars are rarely fought that way.
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The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
Joined: Apr 2001 Posts: 121,489PanzerMeyer
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In other words, no weapons platform exists in a vaccum.
@Supra - That video is indeed a great watch.
Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 06/23/1608:12 PM.
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
The core design of the T-34 was good- enough so that the Panther copied some of the principles. Wide tracks (good mobility so it can cross bridges, doesn't get bogged down as much), sloped armor, good speed. As a production tank to be built in large numbers, it doesn't tie down lots of resources and raw materials to produce, doesn't require too much training for crews. Soviet armor quality wasn't always the best, but neither was German steel by mid-late war. Still, this is before the MBT concept, so the T-34 was a better exploitation tank that would follow through the holes created by IS-2 tanks.
Having said that, the Tiger is much more comfortable than all of them, with much more spacious interior for the crew. Certainly a boon.
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Don't ever change Japan. We love ya all weird and stuff.
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
The T-34: Simple and rugged enough to be operated by Japanese school girls:
But the japanese school girls operated the Panzer IV, M3 Lee, StuG III, Type XX (I forget), And the 38(t), then the Tiger I later in the season, and the French B1
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Lifer
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Yes, but they completely owned the T-34.
Btw, I think it is completely unfair that a school that is made from grounds placed on top of an aircraft carrier and has clubs that operate WWII tanks and fight them as an intramural sport is girls only.
Dammit, I wanted to go there.
The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.
But the japanese school girls operated the Panzer IV, M3 Lee, StuG III, Type XX (I forget), And the 38(t), then the Tiger I later in the season, and the French B1
Supra, I have to ask... How do you even know this?
There was only 16 squadrons of RAF fighters that used 100 octane during the BoB. The Fw190A could not fly with the outer cannon removed. There was no Fw190A-8s flying with the JGs in 1945.
