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#4266105 - 06/01/16 10:14 PM Multi Part Ships  
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Have we managed to get a ship like the PAW ships, to move as part of a convoy?

I have a few projects, which could need 3 or 4 3dz's to build.


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#4266114 - 06/01/16 11:13 PM Re: Multi Part Ships [Re: Col. Gibbon]  
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Like this:



.

No, not yet.

#4266176 - 06/02/16 08:07 AM Re: Multi Part Ships [Re: Col. Gibbon]  
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I had multipart ships moving in convoys some time ago. I am still away in Lyon with no access to my old files, so I cannot demonstrate it here today.
The ships were the PAW ones and I used the invisible railway line flagged system for a mixed convoy.
The convoy was built from all the parts, but with a separation of zero so they all appeared at the same point. We stopped work because they were all type 3 elements. But the ships really moved and gave the impression of being a single TMod.


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#4266178 - 06/02/16 08:35 AM Re: Multi Part Ships [Re: Col. Gibbon]  
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So, actually, the answer is yes thumbsup

#4266179 - 06/02/16 08:40 AM Re: Multi Part Ships [Re: Col. Gibbon]  
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Sounds like there might be some hope then.

With what you know now Tony, could multi part models be added as one?

Like Tmod27_H, _H1, _H2 [H being the master, H6 being the top], and so on?

Doing it this way would let us have a few Mulit Part land models too, as well as getting away from having to place different models on top of each other. wink


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#4266187 - 06/02/16 10:18 AM Re: Multi Part Ships [Re: Col. Gibbon]  
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Yo Moggy,
I love the Carrier in your screens!
Especially the damage model!

I remember spending many a day flying SBD missions in PAW
and watching the ships turn to evade when my squad was overhead.
I think they had wakes too?

I think this stuff is in the code but does not work?

AO

#4266188 - 06/02/16 10:22 AM Re: Multi Part Ships [Re: Col. Gibbon]  
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Looks very promising.

You're going to have to add in some way to stop the whole set when one section gets damaged or the undamaged pieces in front of the damaged section are going to keep sailing. That's what happens to railcars.


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#4266214 - 06/02/16 12:16 PM Re: Multi Part Ships [Re: Col. Gibbon]  
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If you have the main model, as the lowest part of the ship [waterline hull], in your railway/ship scenario, it would have to be the loco Tmod, as the train stops dead when the loco is hit, and 6 cars piled on top[tender + 5 wagons].

Although it would be easier for multiple, multipart ships, to work with a single master 3dz and a set of 6 slaves.


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#4266240 - 06/02/16 01:04 PM Re: Multi Part Ships [Re: Col. Gibbon]  
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It's more complicated than that.

With John's proposal you'd have to make the main model's hit bubble bigger than all the rest to ensure that it was the first one destroyed so that the pieces of the set don't come apart.

However, while that's OK for torpedo attacks that's not realistic for bomber attacks that target the structures above the waterline. The player would drop a bomb on the flight deck only to see the hull destroyed.

Another problem is that while the main hit bubble has to be the biggest one of the set, that bubble cannot be as high as the flight deck or the planes explode as soon as the engines start. That limits the size of the main hit bubble which then limits the size of all the other hit bubbles.

The modder will also have to shift the hit bubbles fore and aft to account for the position of the various pieces.

Then you still have to figure out how to do the damage models. After the main model is destroyed it will stop but it can't sink or you're left with the other bits hovering in mid air.

It's not that this can't be done and I fully support the concept but it's a complicated project that will require a bit of thought.


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#4266259 - 06/02/16 01:52 PM Re: Multi Part Ships [Re: Col. Gibbon]  
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Each 3dz has a hit bubble, but basically the waterline, and deck area are the two weak points, more or less. The Conning Tower is a separate 3dz so can be destroyed separately, from the deck. Other parts of the hull are difficult to hit or damage. I would say you'd need multiple hits from torpedoes and bombs to sink a carrier, so there would need to be a way of adding hit values to achieve a sinking. And then we have the other capital ships to think about!

BTW, as we know from the Yorktown, carriers are not easy to sink, unless your on a Japanese carrier with loads of planes fueled, and armed on deck!


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#4266306 - 06/02/16 03:27 PM Re: Multi Part Ships [Re: Col. Gibbon]  
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Once again, with the proposed system you can't hit the secondary 3dz's until the main one is destroyed. So you can't have a carrier with a damaged flight deck or control tower still sailing along.

Other capital ships will have the same problems except we can make the main hit bubble as big as we want since we don't have the problem of aircraft blowing up.


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#4266329 - 06/02/16 05:17 PM Re: Multi Part Ships [Re: Col. Gibbon]  
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This is going to have to be a compromise then.

So, if you have one big hit box covering everything from the waterline to the flight deck height, and another for the tower, the big bubble would need to be very hard to destroy.


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#4266360 - 06/02/16 06:59 PM Re: Multi Part Ships [Re: Col. Gibbon]  
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Well really, rather than a compromise maybe we should investigate the hit bubble routines in the exec.

Maybe they don't have to be round, perhaps oval would work.

Or maybe they don't have to be centered so that we could move them to different positions around the ship model.

I don't know, I'm just spit balling here trying to find a way to get the best possible ship functionality.


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#4266364 - 06/02/16 07:20 PM Re: Multi Part Ships [Re: Col. Gibbon]  
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From Andy's notes on the EAW Wiki.

Chris Coons told me:
The value BigRadius is the radius of the bounding cube around the aircraft that the bullets are first checked against. If the bullet is within the cube, then it is checked against each hit location. Each hit location is a sphere with the same radius, which is the value in Radius2 (radius squared).
BigRadius is also used for determining plane-plane collision.
So ideally BigRadius would cover the entire aircraft, and the hit locations would be evenly spread out so the sum of the radius2 covered the entire body. But you could alter those to make a bullet that really "hit" the aircraft go through two different hit locations and it would become a "miss," for example.

All as clear as mud! biggrin


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#4266382 - 06/02/16 07:55 PM Re: Multi Part Ships [Re: Col. Gibbon]  
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Pie are square.

No, brownies are square.

Pie are round.

In any case I'm sure we can make something work. Don't forget, there was a time when raised flight deck carriers were considered impossible, along with bullet convergence, torpedoes, barges and about a million other things.

We still don't know how to make V2's take off like they did in SWOTL. ( just kidding )


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#4266386 - 06/02/16 08:02 PM Re: Multi Part Ships [Re: Col. Gibbon]  
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And Natters!


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#4266511 - 06/03/16 05:04 AM Re: Multi Part Ships [Re: Col. Gibbon]  
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Quote:
The value BigRadius is the radius of the bounding cube around the aircraft that the bullets are first checked against.


Been through with with PE. If the object is multi part, then you have to offset the hit bubble search to the next landscape grid or you have to apply damage to the next grid.

It requires a flag for the object checked. The flag triggers a search for 'selected' grids. The flag tells what grid to search.


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#4266528 - 06/03/16 08:35 AM Re: Multi Part Ships [Re: Col. Gibbon]  
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I found a PAW carrier folder at Coders:



I just changed the source code

Code:
						if (!(pMgo->Status & MGO_LEAD))
						{
							if (ConSpacing[JellyTrick]>=0) total_offset -= (last_offset + pMgo->Target.Type->Length);
						}
						else
						{
							if (ConSpacing[JellyTrick]>=0) total_offset = pMgo->formation_y;
						}

						if (ConSpacing[JellyTrick]>=0) last_offset = pMgo->Target.Type->Length + ConSpacing[JellyTrick] FEET;

						
						train_id = int_train_on_rail(pMgo, total_offset, pMgo->track_id);


This is the "TlistXY.mpf" file I used


515
514
513
512
511
510
0
0
0
0
517
516
8
8
8
10
-1

*******************************************************
17 items

vehicle0
vehicle1
vehicle2
vehicle3
vehicle4
vehicle5
vehicle6
vehicle7
vehicle8
vehicle9
vehicle10: Two extra vehicles added here for engine and tender
vehicle11
Convoy size s
Convoy size m
Convoy size l
Convoy speed (knots)
Convoy additional spacing (feet)


The convoy additional spacing is set at -1 so the code conditions for increasing the offset (if (ConSpacing[JellyTrick]>=0) ) is not met so the eight TMods making up the carrier are generated at the same point.
This makes the whole thing appears as a single TMod.

Moggy can you send me your carrier so I can see what I can do with it wink

wink


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#4266533 - 06/03/16 09:04 AM Re: Multi Part Ships [Re: Col. Gibbon]  
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I thought I had better test the exe with the changed code on a normal train convoy:



It worked fine. Jeez I love this feature smile


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Mark Twain: I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.

I am now of an age at which I no longer need to suffer fools gladly
#4266545 - 06/03/16 09:58 AM Re: Multi Part Ships [Re: Col. Gibbon]  
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Rotton50 Offline
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Hmmm, a negative number that doesn't crash EAW. biggrin


Heck, even paranoids have enemies.
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