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#4259270 - 05/12/16 12:21 PM Panning on building my own custom collective lever  
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The_Winger Offline
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The_Winger  Offline
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Hi guys, I wanted to share my custom Collective Project. Most likely i will make some more minor corrections to how the mounting will function. But over all i think its pretty close to how the thing might look.
electronics are all planned with standard parts. The switchbox will be custom 3D printed. The Housing i will have lasercut from 5mm aluminium material. The Grip will have to be made on a turning machine so that shouldnt be all too expensive. The only part that might be a little more expensive to create since it has to be CNC machined it the thing in the back thats used to control the friction.

The overall length is around 40 cm and when the lever is pulled up its around 25 cm high.
Wanted it to be compact so i can mount it to my office chair.

I updated the Switchbox so it looks close to the one in the real thing in the Gazelle. I like this one but of course i modified it and added some more functionality so i can properly add more functions also for other simulators.
Right now planned functions:

3x 8 Way Coolie
3x Push Button
1x I-O-II Switch
1x linear Potentiometer
1x Hall sensor for Collective lever

What do you guys think?






Last edited by The_Winger; 05/12/16 03:12 PM.
Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4259341 - 05/12/16 03:33 PM Re: Panning on building my own custom collective lever [Re: The_Winger]  
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robv Offline
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That is some great design!

Hoe will you mount the vertical platjes to the base plate?

#4259428 - 05/12/16 07:32 PM Re: Panning on building my own custom collective lever [Re: The_Winger]  
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CyBerkut Offline
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Interesting!

Do you think having that many controls (of those types) off to the left of the grip axis will be sufficiently comfortable/ergonomic to operate?

I suspect push buttons and toggles aren't too much of a problem being off to the left of the grip axis, but the hat switches could prove to be problematic.

#4259459 - 05/12/16 08:43 PM Re: Panning on building my own custom collective lever [Re: robv]  
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The_Winger Offline
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The_Winger  Offline
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Originally Posted By: robv
That is some great design!

Hoe will you mount the vertical platjes to the base plate?


Youre right thats not visualizedm here yet.
Right now the vertical plates are visualized as 5mm thicvk material. Ill have it cut from 6mm material and screw it from the bottom, thru the bottomeplate with 4 M4 screws per side.

#4259460 - 05/12/16 08:46 PM Re: Panning on building my own custom collective lever [Re: CyBerkut]  
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The_Winger Offline
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The_Winger  Offline
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Originally Posted By: CyBerkut
Interesting!

Do you think having that many controls (of those types) off to the left of the grip axis will be sufficiently comfortable/ergonomic to operate?

I suspect push buttons and toggles aren't too much of a problem being off to the left of the grip axis, but the hat switches could prove to be problematic.


I thought about that as well. I think i kind of mirror the design horizontally so the coolies are on the right and the linear poti is on the left. After all the coolies are more important to reach than the Slider. I am getting farther away from the original gazelle collective design but i am fine with that if ergonomics get better.

Thanks! That kind of feedback is exactly why I post it here!

Last edited by The_Winger; 05/12/16 08:47 PM.
#4259494 - 05/12/16 10:18 PM Re: Panning on building my own custom collective lever [Re: The_Winger]  
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LocNar Offline
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Nice!

I'd move the standoffs that form the stops a little further apart and use plastic sleeves on them to bring the range of motion back to what you intend, that would avoid the metallic clank as you hit the stops.

Not sure how the vertical flanges are attached to the base, but you could skip the base plate altogether by making those out of 1x3 or 1x4 aluminum angle of desired thickness.

I've made a bunch of friction joints and experimented with what greases work best, and by a longshot Nyogel 767a is the undisputed champion. Very thick stuff that doesn't req high mechanical pressure to generate firm high quality damping, and despite the grease being so thick it moves just as easily from a cold standstill as it does throughout the range of motion.

I use .014" thick mylar sheet cut to shape as a rub greased with that stuff between sliding metal components and it feels as good as actual hydraulic damping, or close enough to it that using hydraulics are in the zone of diminishing returns and tension adjustment very easy with a screw mechanism.

This makes me want to cobble together a collective and start flying helicopters in VR, especially after I watched this video of a Gazelle doing a flameout auto-rotation landing yesterday.

#4259679 - 05/13/16 01:18 PM Re: Panning on building my own custom collective lever [Re: The_Winger]  
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The_Winger Offline
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I updated the switchboxlayout for better ergonomics. Turned out to look even cooler:) And the push buttons were modeled too big. So i manage to fit in even more of them. Theyre pretty cheap and i plan on using a Bodnar BU equivalent so i will have 32 buttons plus one 8 way coolie available. Plenty.
The 2 other coolies will be using 8 buttons per from the buttonmatrix.
The Brake block in the back will have to be made a little thicker or there wont be enough room for the friction screw. Not yet visualized here:



Last edited by The_Winger; 05/13/16 01:35 PM.
#4259685 - 05/13/16 01:30 PM Re: Panning on building my own custom collective lever [Re: LocNar]  
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Originally Posted By: LocNar
Nice!

I'd move the standoffs that form the stops a little further apart and use plastic sleeves on them to bring the range of motion back to what you intend, that would avoid the metallic clank as you hit the stops.

Not sure how the vertical flanges are attached to the base, but you could skip the base plate altogether by making those out of 1x3 or 1x4 aluminum angle of desired thickness.

I've made a bunch of friction joints and experimented with what greases work best, and by a longshot Nyogel 767a is the undisputed champion. Very thick stuff that doesn't req high mechanical pressure to generate firm high quality damping, and despite the grease being so thick it moves just as easily from a cold standstill as it does throughout the range of motion.

I use .014" thick mylar sheet cut to shape as a rub greased with that stuff between sliding metal components and it feels as good as actual hydraulic damping, or close enough to it that using hydraulics are in the zone of diminishing returns and tension adjustment very easy with a screw mechanism.

This makes me want to cobble together a collective and start flying helicopters in VR, especially after I watched this video of a Gazelle doing a flameout auto-rotation landing yesterday.


THANK YOU for your feedback!

My CV1 is on its way. Already tried one from my collegue with DCS. A BLAST! Its practically the reason why i fly nothing else but DCS right now. And in the end also the reason for this DIY project.

I already planned on covering the 2 front stops with plastic. I could move the upper one a little upwards. Right now i have 31 degrees of movement. I think i could increase that to 35°. MAybe i make the upper stop adjustable via longhole.
Right now the brake is planned to utilize a PTFE dagged hose (20 outer, 15 inner diameter) and a 15mm metal spindle.
I hope this works as well. Friend of mine is CNC guy. We plan on creating a prototype of this "heartpiece" of the design first and test it out. If it works we go on with the remaining parts.

Prototype is a big word. In the end we plan on making like 2 or so of them:) Maybe some more if some friends hop on and want one too. The more we make the less it costs everyone. Will be kind of a get the parts and put it together yourself thing.
The cables and screwing will be quite some work. But if someone doiesnt have 2 left hands it should be manageable in an evening of work. Biggest thing is to get it working they way we want while NOT wasting the money on 10 prototypes first:)
So again Your feedback is VERY apprechiated!

Btw. Have a source for the aluminum angles you were talking about?

edit. Here is like the finished thing could look like if we decide to add a simple aluminium sheet as a dustcover. I also moved the upper stop and now have 40° of collective lever movement.


Last edited by The_Winger; 05/13/16 02:28 PM.
#4259914 - 05/13/16 10:34 PM Re: Panning on building my own custom collective lever [Re: The_Winger]  
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CyBerkut Offline
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I like it! If you sell kits, keep us posted on what you come up with for a price.

#4260253 - 05/14/16 10:37 PM Re: Panning on building my own custom collective lever [Re: CyBerkut]  
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The_Winger Offline
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The_Winger  Offline
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Originally Posted By: CyBerkut
I like it! If you sell kits, keep us posted on what you come up with for a price.


At first i was not thinking of selling anything. But now that ive put so much time in it i MIGHT consider that.
Fist step it to see if the brakemechanism works as intended. When it does i produce the 2 collectives that my CNC-Mate and me wanted to create for ur simpits. IF all works well i might calculate what it costs to sell a DIY kit.

And here is an update on the switchbox. Its almost ready to print.
I really need to get into some sort of CAD programm. Cinema 4D and its booleans are killing me. So much to clean up from hand afterwards.



Last edited by The_Winger; 05/14/16 10:39 PM.
#4260266 - 05/14/16 11:29 PM Re: Panning on building my own custom collective lever [Re: The_Winger]  
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LocNar Offline
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Posts: 161
Originally Posted By: The_Winger
Originally Posted By: LocNar
Nice!

I'd move the standoffs that form the stops a little further apart and use plastic sleeves on them to bring the range of motion back to what you intend, that would avoid the metallic clank as you hit the stops.

Not sure how the vertical flanges are attached to the base, but you could skip the base plate altogether by making those out of 1x3 or 1x4 aluminum angle of desired thickness.

I've made a bunch of friction joints and experimented with what greases work best, and by a longshot Nyogel 767a is the undisputed champion. Very thick stuff that doesn't req high mechanical pressure to generate firm high quality damping, and despite the grease being so thick it moves just as easily from a cold standstill as it does throughout the range of motion.

I use .014" thick mylar sheet cut to shape as a rub greased with that stuff between sliding metal components and it feels as good as actual hydraulic damping, or close enough to it that using hydraulics are in the zone of diminishing returns and tension adjustment very easy with a screw mechanism.

This makes me want to cobble together a collective and start flying helicopters in VR, especially after I watched this video of a Gazelle doing a flameout auto-rotation landing yesterday.


THANK YOU for your feedback!

My CV1 is on its way. Already tried one from my collegue with DCS. A BLAST! Its practically the reason why i fly nothing else but DCS right now. And in the end also the reason for this DIY project.

I already planned on covering the 2 front stops with plastic. I could move the upper one a little upwards. Right now i have 31 degrees of movement. I think i could increase that to 35°. MAybe i make the upper stop adjustable via longhole.
Right now the brake is planned to utilize a PTFE dagged hose (20 outer, 15 inner diameter) and a 15mm metal spindle.
I hope this works as well. Friend of mine is CNC guy. We plan on creating a prototype of this "heartpiece" of the design first and test it out. If it works we go on with the remaining parts.

Prototype is a big word. In the end we plan on making like 2 or so of them:) Maybe some more if some friends hop on and want one too. The more we make the less it costs everyone. Will be kind of a get the parts and put it together yourself thing.
The cables and screwing will be quite some work. But if someone doiesnt have 2 left hands it should be manageable in an evening of work. Biggest thing is to get it working they way we want while NOT wasting the money on 10 prototypes first:)
So again Your feedback is VERY apprechiated!

Btw. Have a source for the aluminum angles you were talking about?

edit. Here is like the finished thing could look like if we decide to add a simple aluminium sheet as a dustcover. I also moved the upper stop and now have 40° of collective lever movement.



Sounds good, looking forward to seeing more. PTFE might be a bit soft (high memory materials will dent and deform) and generally costs much more than nylon/uhmwpe/delrin/abs/vinyl/etc

As to aluminum sources, I live in Bay Area so get 24' long profiles of any of the standard size/shapes from a place in Union City if I know I need a lot of it, however ebay is a great place to buy cheap metals in smaller amounts of oddball sizes for r&d, just be sure to read the shipping first. Most sellers are pretty good, but some have wack shipping costs.

#4260331 - 05/15/16 08:30 AM Re: Panning on building my own custom collective lever [Re: LocNar]  
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The_Winger Offline
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The_Winger  Offline
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Thanks. I already found a source. Its little money for a 20x20mm profile with 3mm thickness. Ill use that and accomodate for it in the stickdesign then it will look just great:)

For the first test i ordered PTFE. Well see how that works out. Thanks for the tips on material. Ill test them out as wel if potfe ddoesnt work as hoped.


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