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#4254266 - 04/29/16 04:32 PM Parachutist and droptanks  
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Taking off from a discussion elsewhere smile

This is the crux of it all:


In the SPAW "weapons.dat" file some are coded 7.
7 = 1+2+4 so this weapon has the properties of a bomb(1), a rocket(2) and a drop tank(4)

All sorts of conditional routines are triggered by these properties.
I suppose we could have a new one:

#define WI_PARACHUTE 0X40 //64
However, a whole lot of new routines would need to be written to check if the loadout has parachutes, and if so how many, and then for what happens when they are released, and then for what happens when they hit the ground.

Furthermore these properties are linked to others WI_FUEL is also linked to BO_FUEL, and these need to be followed up.

To be honest the only missions that would interest me as a player would be escorting a parachute drop, or intercepting one. Effectively that is no different from escorting or intercepting bombers, except that as the parachute aircraft had little if any armament, they would make easier targets.

wink


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#4254270 - 04/29/16 04:41 PM Re: Parachutist and droptanks [Re: MrJelly]  
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Jel I don't know squat about programming so keep that in mind.

In that game the "7" doesn't act like a bomb/rocket/drop tank. It acts like an explosive drop tank, meaning it drops like a tank but explodes like a bomb. The rocket characteristic don't seem to apply.

I've forgotten what the other values like 3,5 and 6 do but each one has different properties. I figured them out by trial and error. I'd have to look but I THINK 3 has the rocket characteristics but you don't get a lit rocket motor when they launch.

You could look at the original SPAW weapons.dat file and pretty quickly figure out what the values do.

If you want to go forward with this how about something similar to the way torpedoes work, in that they trigger special routines?


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#4254279 - 04/29/16 05:01 PM Re: Parachutist and droptanks [Re: MrJelly]  
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Checking a version that might not be up to date, but it serves the purpose smile



The binary system has to work here and it is based on powers of 2. I sttll believe that anything coded 7 will have bomb, rocket and drop tank properties.
That does not necessarily mean that it will look or behave like a normal rocket.
The parafrag is coded 7 but it has an initial velocity of zero, and no acceleration, unlike the traditional rocket.
Compare it with the 5" HVAR with an initial velocity of 45 and an acceleration of 3.
In the game they both behave very differently smile


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#4254280 - 04/29/16 05:08 PM Re: Parachutist and droptanks [Re: MrJelly]  
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Strange Tony, that's the first time I've seen mention of CARGO. Has it ever been used?

We never had any transports in the game to load cargo on.


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#4254287 - 04/29/16 05:24 PM Re: Parachutist and droptanks [Re: MrJelly]  
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There is little reference to it in the code.

Back to SPAW I just gave both the HVARs (your L1 and L3) initial velocities and accelerations of zero.
They just dropped from the Hellcat:


I will make a few other changes to see what effect they have, but I will not be using a hexeditor LOL smile




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#4254291 - 04/29/16 05:43 PM Re: Parachutist and droptanks [Re: MrJelly]  
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Ok, well give it a go. may it will jog my memory.

Off topic but What the hell happened to the fuselage of the Hellcat?


Heck, even paranoids have enemies.
#4254295 - 04/29/16 05:57 PM Re: Parachutist and droptanks [Re: MrJelly]  
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Nothing LOL smile
Having been messing around with dummy TPC files for Iron Mike's discussion there were some rogue files in the root folder including a "PlaneTEX.BMP". I have just deleted them and everything is as it should be.



wink


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I am now of an age at which I no longer need to suffer fools gladly
#4254296 - 04/29/16 06:07 PM Re: Parachutist and droptanks [Re: MrJelly]  
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Don't DO that to me! biggrin


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#4254459 - 04/30/16 05:47 AM Re: Parachutist and droptanks [Re: MrJelly]  
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Ray,
I was looking into the code after reading the other thread, before reading this one. Jell is right. They are bit flags. The code uses IF and ELSE statements. Whom ever triggers the IF first wins. It all depends on the order the loop is checked, and how it is checked. There are times when the code checks if the type contains a value. In that case, 7 is true for all 3 types. If there is no ELSE statement then the last IF that is TRUE wins. If the entire IF/ELSE is one case, the first IF wins. There are also cases where an absolute value is checked. In this case you will only get a TRUE returned if the value is exact, so 7 would be ignored.

As Jell said, there is a lot of nested code. The only reasonable way would be to define a flag above any existing flags and write new routines, even if they are copies of existing routines. This would insure that none of the existing routines will run if this flag is found. But, if you start mixing and matching numbers like you do with 7, you will corrupt the isolation.

screwy Clear as mud?

#4254474 - 04/30/16 08:33 AM Re: Parachutist and droptanks [Re: MrJelly]  
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Hi Allen.

Thanks for taking a look at the code, and confirming that it's not a simple job to do, even if it would be nice to have.

Hi Tony.

That Cargo entry, what is it for? Can you drop cargo? Does cargo explode at ground zero? If it's truly cargo, it should land and not explode, if you see what I mean. wink


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#4254475 - 04/30/16 08:33 AM Re: Parachutist and droptanks [Re: MrJelly]  
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As I wrote in my first post I cannot see the point of parachute missions when it comes to playing the game.
If the code were adjusted you might get a quick glimpse of people spawning when they happen to be in view from your aircraft, and it is not visually attractive.
I would need a lot of convincing to attempt to modify the code in this respect.

wink


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#4254477 - 04/30/16 08:41 AM Re: Parachutist and droptanks [Re: MrJelly]  
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We cross posted Tony, did you read my comment on Cargo?


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#4254483 - 04/30/16 09:20 AM Re: Parachutist and droptanks [Re: MrJelly]  
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Not a cross post, but I replied to your earlier question in one of my previous posts.

Quote:
There is little reference to it in the code.


Which is true. There is no code relating to the behaviour or events that happen when cargo is dropped.
There is code flagging that an aircraft is carrying cargo, and a count of how many items, but no more.

wink


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#4254490 - 04/30/16 09:55 AM Re: Parachutist and droptanks [Re: MrJelly]  
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It's another bit of unfinished code then? It makes no sense to have cargo, if you have no transports, but we will have a FW 200, which will need cargo, so can you please list the options for the cargo setting? How much weight is an item?


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#4254495 - 04/30/16 10:26 AM Re: Parachutist and droptanks [Re: MrJelly]  
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With the limited modding manpower we now have what's the reason for adding cargo and troops?

Say you're a C-47 pilot. You take off, fly in formation to your target, drop you guys and fly home. You have no guns, you have no armament of any kind and you're flying a bus.

It seems a lot of effort for little return. Just because we CAN do something doesn't mean we SHOULD do something.

This was the reason Woody and I stopped developing "Silent wings". Neat concept but a dead end, low repeat play interest.

Just one man's opinion.


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#4254497 - 04/30/16 10:41 AM Re: Parachutist and droptanks [Re: MrJelly]  
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And the "Bus Divers", had the biggest Gonads of any WWII pilots. Shame no one remembers that in Flight sims today.


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#4254501 - 04/30/16 11:20 AM Re: Parachutist and droptanks [Re: MrJelly]  
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John,

Everyone who comes here to read these posts knows we are in no way impugning the pilots who flew those REAL aircraft.

We're wondering if there is any reason to include the feature in our GAME. So let's have a discussion about the game play involved in flying cargo and men in a war zone in an aircraft that has no armament and no ability to maneuver.

Plus the fact that the game engine doesn't have a way to credit a cargo pilot with a successful mission. As it stands now the vast majority of a player's points are awarded by destroying objects. A cargo mission would only award points for a completed mission. It would lead to unsatisfactory game play.

I could see some interest in escorting cargo missions in a fighter but that actually didn't happen in the war. Most of those cargo missions were unescorted, scary flights into occupied territory.


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#4254504 - 04/30/16 11:43 AM Re: Parachutist and droptanks [Re: MrJelly]  
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As Boilerplate says: "Its a game" smile


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Mark Twain: I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.

I am now of an age at which I no longer need to suffer fools gladly
#4254506 - 04/30/16 11:47 AM Re: Parachutist and droptanks [Re: MrJelly]  
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And as a game it has to be entertaining. Cargo flights would not be such.


Heck, even paranoids have enemies.
#4254518 - 04/30/16 01:30 PM Re: Parachutist and droptanks [Re: Rotton50]  
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Originally Posted By: Rotton50
Say you're a C-47 pilot. You take off, fly in formation to your target, drop you guys and fly home. You have no guns, you have no armament of any kind and you're flying a bus.


That statement was what I was replying too, Ray. Not weather it was a waste of time to have it in the game.

This all started because Moggy wanted to drop paras, which do not explode, and as I thought it's a load of code work. But, when I saw cargo, I thought cargo dropped should not explode, but as the code is not complete, to allow cargo to drop, that is yet another dead end.

Over the years many good and bad ideas have been explored, with varying results, but it has always lead to an expansion of our knowledge.


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#4254533 - 04/30/16 01:58 PM Re: Parachutist and droptanks [Re: Col. Gibbon]  
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Originally Posted By: Col. Gibbon


That statement was what I was replying too, Ray.



The community at large knows I wasn't making light of the sacrifice of transport pilots. Yet in a discussion about what should or shouldn't be in the game you went off topic and implied that it was the case.

It was another one of those sniping comments that sent us down the rabbit hole a couple of days ago. Maybe you don't realize you're doing it, I don't know but please, for the sake of the community think about it before you post.


Heck, even paranoids have enemies.
#4254541 - 04/30/16 02:43 PM Re: Parachutist and droptanks [Re: MrJelly]  
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OK, let us say I miss understood your post, and leave it at that.

There are differences between English, English, and US English.

Quote:
Maybe you don't realize you're doing it, I don't know but please, for the sake of the community think about it before you post.


Works for me, but this a a two way street.


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#4254558 - 04/30/16 03:37 PM Re: Parachutist and droptanks [Re: MrJelly]  
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I haven't seen this much sniping and BS here since the VBH war

WTF????

Do I need to box up some Pamprin and post it to y'all?

Sure,I am no longer truly active around here,but it does bother me to see the remains of the once glorious EAW community descend into what looks like ego-driven destruction.....c'mon guys,its a game...an OLD game,and certainly NOT worth getting your knickers twisted up over.
We have a term for what I've been reading around here...."Snarkiness"



Quit it!!!!!



y'all have a great weekend cheers

#4254561 - 04/30/16 03:44 PM Re: Parachutist and droptanks [Re: Col. Gibbon]  
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Originally Posted By: Col. Gibbon


Works for me, but this a a two way street.


See, here's the crux of the whole mess.

I didn't say anything the least bit off topic and now WE BOTH have a problem.

No, this has to stop.


Heck, even paranoids have enemies.
#4255427 - 05/03/16 01:41 PM Re: Parachutist and droptanks [Re: MrJelly]  
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Back to this thread I have now got the parachute drop working better, even without the CARGO designation.

The last entry on each data line in "weapons.dat" is "Handle".
It is never used and the value is always zero.
So I used it


I re-jigged the editor to display the "Handle" column (the heading is "*Null"), and added two new lines to the real SPAW "weapons.str" file:


Note that the "Handle" value for the two new items = 1

I copied SPAW planeset13, as planeset14, and made the A20-G use the A20-G(Transport)_FM which has this "load.dat" data:

For mysterious reasons a dummy bomb is needed along with the parachutes to get the AIs to drop them

I flew an escort with Planeset14 smile





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#4255438 - 05/03/16 01:58 PM Re: Parachutist and droptanks [Re: MrJelly]  
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thumbsup


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#4255450 - 05/03/16 02:40 PM Re: Parachutist and droptanks [Re: MrJelly]  
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For sure adds a bit of atmosphere to the girl ..I'm lost have we the ability to add fighter cover to these missions...I know after they land there's no ground troops animation..But would be nice with fighter cover like we escort bombers...All in all great work from all modders Nice to see the co-operation


Russ
Semper Fi
#4255471 - 05/03/16 03:38 PM Re: Parachutist and droptanks [Re: MrJelly]  
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Originally Posted By: MrJelly
For mysterious reasons a dummy bomb is needed along with the parachutes to get the AIs to drop them


Yep, that's what I've been saying.

Not sure if original EAW exhibited this but I know in SPAW if you don't drop or fire the ordinance that is assigned to the "drop tank" key that ordinance will drop or fire when you release the ordinance assigned to the "bomb" or 'rocket" key.

Says it right in the SPAW readme file.

Might it have something to do with the fact the the drop tank key doesn't arm but rather hitting the key immediately releases the ordinance, while the bomb and rocket key have to be armed first before firing?


#4255492 - 05/03/16 04:25 PM Re: Parachutist and droptanks [Re: MrJelly]  
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Hi,

Most of this thread is way over my head but a thought occurs to me - would this work with parachute mines? I am assuming that when the RAF went "gardening" the mines they dropped had a parachute as I cannot imagine they were free-fall, so could this mod you are working on allow me to use a Hampden or whatever to drop a "vegetable" off the coast of Norway or in the Dortmund - Ems canal? Clearly we need a large object on the end of the chute which will not explode when it hits the sea. Moggy wishes to do a Falschirmjaeger drop but I rather fancy something more "explosive" and Rotton's "para-frags" won't do as they explode. A mining mission would involve the risk of flak from ships and the shore when "gardening" in estuaries, and later in the war there would also night fighters. Sorry if the facility already exists.

Pete


With increasing age should come wisdom and tolerance, but as the saying goes, "there is no fool like an old fool" as I prove regularly!

#4255514 - 05/03/16 05:08 PM Re: Parachutist and droptanks [Re: MrJelly]  
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No, it makes sense as long as you don't want to see the mines do something after they've hit the water. The problem as far as game play is that you wouldn't get any points because you haven't destroyed anything.

The 250 lb parafrag model would be a good starting point for this.


Heck, even paranoids have enemies.
#4255549 - 05/03/16 06:31 PM Re: Parachutist and droptanks [Re: MrJelly]  
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OK, so this kicks off a new set of 3dz mods like paratroops x at least 3, cargo drop cylinders, and mines of various types.

Silly question, who building the mods? Our Studio does not work with the chute folding code, so making a new model will not be easy. wink


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#4255571 - 05/03/16 07:03 PM Re: Parachutist and droptanks [Re: MrJelly]  
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I didn't bother with the chute folding code for the parabombs. They just pop into view fully deployed when they're released so that might not be necessary.

The mines and cargo cylinders could be fashioned pretty easily from the 250lb parabomb. Chop off the tailfins and push a few elements around and you've got a cylinder.

Sounds like more of a skinning job than a 3dz job. Could be done in an afternoon.


Heck, even paranoids have enemies.
#4255647 - 05/03/16 09:21 PM Re: Parachutist and droptanks [Re: MrJelly]  
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Here is Pob's Pilot 3dz, which needs a bit of extra kit adding to it to make a decent paratroop. Looking at pics of the 101st they must have weighed a ton, with all the kit they jumped with!

http://www.sandbagger.uk.com/pobsadd.html



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#4255727 - 05/04/16 12:19 AM Re: Parachutist and droptanks [Re: MrJelly]  
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#4255775 - 05/04/16 01:51 AM Re: Parachutist and droptanks [Re: MrJelly]  
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Just being my usual prick self.

We went from I want simulated paratroopers to I want full 3D paratroopers.

Jelly, your a better man then I could ever be.


TPA who TWI
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#4255845 - 05/04/16 07:19 AM Re: Parachutist and droptanks [Re: MrJelly]  
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Hi Allen.

The 3D paratrooper is the icing on the cake.

Tony has done a great job of tweaking the code, to make it work. It now just needs a proper paratrooper, one for each side, British, German and American.

wink


Supports EAW 1.29.exe, Drop in and Play Technology. wink

1.29 download
#4255849 - 05/04/16 08:00 AM Re: Parachutist and droptanks [Re: MrJelly]  
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 12,497
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MrJelly  Offline
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Montagnac, L'Herault, France
Fortunately I have the luxury of being able to borrow graphics files in order to test the code. It will be up to others to make them smile

Now, I have finally cracked something that has bugged me for days on end smile


I added copy and paste buttons to the weapons editor, and gave the parachute exactly the same values as the 1000lb bomb apart from the image and the "Handle (*Null)" value.
Previously I had needed the dummy bomb, but this time no more.
Without it the AI bombers returned to base without dropping the "bombs".

So I wondered why having the values for the 1000lb bomb made the difference, and started reducing them to zero.
The breakthrough came when I changed "*Weight" to zero. The bombers returned to base.
I have not checked, and may not need to, but I guess the exe is using weight to check if loadout is still available, which results in a total of zero when all has been dropped.
If the item weight is set to zero then the total is already zero, so no loadout and RTB smile

Even a weight value of 1lb makes the mission run properly smile


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Mark Twain: I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.

I am now of an age at which I no longer need to suffer fools gladly
#4255854 - 05/04/16 08:31 AM Re: Parachutist and droptanks [Re: MrJelly]  
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MrJelly  Offline
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Montagnac, L'Herault, France
Ray
What I can report is that this only works with the AIs of the "TypeNum" is set to 1 (bomb).
If I set it to 3 (bomb and rocket), 5 (bomb and drop tank ), or 7 (bomb, rocket and drop tank) then the AIs return to base.

The "order of release" code which is great for your aircraft in SPAW single missions cannot apply to AIs you are escorting or intercepting.


Fly EAW online at GameRanger: GameRanger Site

FaceBook Pages
UAW 160 downloads
EAW Club

Mark Twain: I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.

I am now of an age at which I no longer need to suffer fools gladly
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