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#4253433 - 04/27/16 12:49 PM mini pics - necessary or just a PITA?  
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Rotton50 Offline
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This has been percolating for sometime in the dark recesses of my brain.

As a modder I find them to be a lot of work for little return. In fact, even with a number of tutorials and a few different mini-pic programs I still can't make 'em. And no, I don't want another lesson. Personally it seems like very little bang for the buck.

I started to give up on them back with SPAW45 because so many of the planes were fictional that I couldn't find appropriate pictures to base the mini-pics on. Instead I made a basic mini-pic with text only. Worked Ok and no one seemed to mind.

While working on the Med package I needed quite a few mini-pics and I sent them to Jel who kindly made them for me. I really don't find that acceptable as he's got plenty on his plate.

So here's my proposal.

Do away with mini-pics and the fsmplane.fsm files and replace them with the name that is in the plname.str file included with the FM folders.

If for some reason folks really need to see a picture of the planes they've selected then maybe the plname.str could be implemented as a backup rather then the present set up where you see "mini pic not found".

Ok, just an idea.


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#4253458 - 04/27/16 02:12 PM Re: mini pics - necessary or just a PITA? [Re: Rotton50]  
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Anything which is a pain in the butt, should be removed and replaced with something easier to mod.

Are the mini pics only used on one screen?

OMG! Did I just agree with you? eek


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#4253465 - 04/27/16 02:35 PM Re: mini pics - necessary or just a PITA? [Re: Rotton50]  
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Nice for users, though they are a pain modding.

#4253468 - 04/27/16 02:38 PM Re: mini pics - necessary or just a PITA? [Re: Rotton50]  
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#4253481 - 04/27/16 03:22 PM Re: mini pics - necessary or just a PITA? [Re: Rotton50]  
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Rotton50 Offline
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I guess you replaced the "mini pic not found" graphic with a blank graphic which is Ok. It's better than the blue box which looked kinda amateurish.

But what about my suggestion to display the plname.str?

If you don't want to pursue that's fine but could you send me that blank .fsm file?


Heck, even paranoids have enemies.
#4253499 - 04/27/16 04:00 PM Re: mini pics - necessary or just a PITA? [Re: Rotton50]  
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As I was programming the encounter stuff when I read this thread I stopped the minipic display routine from running smile


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Mark Twain: I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.

I am now of an age at which I no longer need to suffer fools gladly
#4253507 - 04/27/16 04:11 PM Re: mini pics - necessary or just a PITA? [Re: Rotton50]  
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Is there no way to change the graphic loading routine, so it loads an easier to edit picture? The current format is not mod friendly.


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#4253519 - 04/27/16 04:35 PM Re: mini pics - necessary or just a PITA? [Re: Rotton50]  
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Rotton50 Offline
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Yes the format is definitely not user friendly but even using a friendlier format it still means an extra bit of business that needs to be dealt with when setting up plane sets.

That's my reason for asking about the possibility of using the text that is already available in the plnames.str file.


Heck, even paranoids have enemies.
#4253524 - 04/27/16 05:04 PM Re: mini pics - necessary or just a PITA? [Re: Rotton50]  
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Ray, if we could use JPEG's or BMP's, you can just look in the folder to see a set of thumbnails. At first thought, changing to text might be easier, but the screen really needs a graphic to look right, and putting in text over a blank picture might not be that easy.


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#4253529 - 04/27/16 05:08 PM Re: mini pics - necessary or just a PITA? [Re: Rotton50]  
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Rotton50 Offline
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Yes I get that. I'm just thinking that since we have the .str file for the main screen then why not ease the modding burden just a bit and do away with the pictures.


Heck, even paranoids have enemies.
#4253548 - 04/27/16 05:55 PM Re: mini pics - necessary or just a PITA? [Re: Rotton50]  
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I have only done the enemy primary, and I can change the colour of the text wink


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Mark Twain: I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.

I am now of an age at which I no longer need to suffer fools gladly
#4253557 - 04/27/16 06:17 PM Re: mini pics - necessary or just a PITA? [Re: Rotton50]  
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Hi Tony.

Can't say I like it that much, mainly because the text is in a place where we have always seen a picture, even if it was a horrible RAW file.

I've only made one RAW file, and it took me ages to do one, so I know how Ray feels.

Changing the picture type is not possible?


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#4253561 - 04/27/16 06:28 PM Re: mini pics - necessary or just a PITA? [Re: Rotton50]  
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Rotton50 Offline
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Well I love it thus proving there's no accounting for taste.


Heck, even paranoids have enemies.
#4253564 - 04/27/16 06:31 PM Re: mini pics - necessary or just a PITA? [Re: Rotton50]  
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I don't know whats so hard about making the mini pics but I personally like the pictures, the retro look has always been a nice touch to the game. If one picture could be used of the model in the game for all three locations that mini pics are needed that what be ideal and would be less work in the end... For in the new DSP, For plane selection, and for the mission parameters screen...

I remember reading about a few tools used to make them. Is there a tutorial I haven't seen that explains how to make them for each plane?

#4253567 - 04/27/16 06:37 PM Re: mini pics - necessary or just a PITA? [Re: Rotton50]  
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Three done



Other forms of pictures?
As far as I know the only way to display pictures on selection screens is in the form of "*.wsp" files which are all RAW files with various headers attatched.
I think the reason for this is that RAW files are not necessarily rectangular, whereas other form of pictures are.
The place where this becomes essential is in the display of medals.
So I cannot see any code that I can adapt to put BMP or JPG files on selection screens.

As far as this all goes I could probably come up with an exe that either shows the minipics or does not, using the same type of trick that I use for disabling the WW1 takeoff or enabling the use of the "seasons" folder.

Last edited by MrJelly; 04/27/16 06:50 PM.

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Mark Twain: I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.

I am now of an age at which I no longer need to suffer fools gladly
#4253577 - 04/27/16 07:07 PM Re: mini pics - necessary or just a PITA? [Re: Rotton50]  
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All four



wink


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Mark Twain: I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.

I am now of an age at which I no longer need to suffer fools gladly
#4253605 - 04/27/16 07:45 PM Re: mini pics - necessary or just a PITA? [Re: Rotton50]  
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Rotton50 Offline
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Mark, working with the RAW files is a real pain but really it just comes down to the amount of time a modder wants to spend searching for and editing a picture that will work all for something that's in front of the players' eyes for about 3 seconds.

Nothing inherently right or wrong either way but reading the string file is a really nice touch, IMHO.


Heck, even paranoids have enemies.
#4253652 - 04/27/16 09:14 PM Re: mini pics - necessary or just a PITA? [Re: Rotton50]  
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It just looks like a bit non EAW. Why does everything have to be a quick fix? Invest a bit of time and find a better way.

Maybe a better way will be found.


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#4253655 - 04/27/16 09:21 PM Re: mini pics - necessary or just a PITA? [Re: Rotton50]  
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I can't mod so I would have to live with any changes that are made but I definitely don't like the text in place of the picture.


Wheels


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#4253657 - 04/27/16 09:24 PM Re: mini pics - necessary or just a PITA? [Re: Rotton50]  
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Thanks for the input Wheelsup. smile


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#4253739 - 04/28/16 12:33 AM Re: mini pics - necessary or just a PITA? [Re: Rotton50]  
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Rotton50 Offline
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The pictures don't mean much to me since I don't play the game very often. I can see that there is a loss of atmosphere. I don't think it's a terrible loss but still.......

As a compromise how about my suggestion that the text be a secondary option if there is no mini-pic?

If a modder wants to include a mini-pic, so be it, but if not, the display would be text specific to that plane rather than the generic "mini-pic not found" which really does put a dent in the look of the game.

Sidebar question to Jel. What determines the font we see on the screen. Could a more informal script be used to simulate handwriting?

FWIW, the mini-pics Jel has been making for me are simple picture files with nothing but text in place of an aircraft picture. So we're already heading in the direction of having some planes with pictures and some without.


Heck, even paranoids have enemies.
#4253783 - 04/28/16 03:02 AM Re: mini pics - necessary or just a PITA? [Re: Rotton50]  
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EAW fonts are nasty

They are not scaleable like normal fonts, and in fact are sets of "*wsp" files like minipics.

Apart from the one I used for the names just about all the ones available that are appropriate are used in parameters screen.


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Mark Twain: I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.

I am now of an age at which I no longer need to suffer fools gladly
#4253787 - 04/28/16 03:45 AM Re: mini pics - necessary or just a PITA? [Re: Rotton50]  
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I have succeeded in making an exe with a toggle.
If there is a "NoMiniPics" file in the root or theatre folder you see the text. Otherwise you see the minipics smile


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Mark Twain: I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.

I am now of an age at which I no longer need to suffer fools gladly
#4253811 - 04/28/16 08:31 AM Re: mini pics - necessary or just a PITA? [Re: MrJelly]  
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Originally Posted By: MrJelly
I have succeeded in making an exe with a toggle.
If there is a "NoMiniPics" file in the root or theatre folder you see the text. Otherwise you see the minipics smile


The best and worst of both Worlds! biggrin

Thanks Tony. thumbsup


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#4253826 - 04/28/16 10:43 AM Re: mini pics - necessary or just a PITA? [Re: Rotton50]  
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Ah, good. I can delete that damn mini-pics folder. Thanks for the effort.


Heck, even paranoids have enemies.
#4253837 - 04/28/16 11:25 AM Re: mini pics - necessary or just a PITA? [Re: Rotton50]  
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Hi Guys,

Yes, I like the mini-pics and they do improve the atmosphere as Ray says, but I gather they are hard work and in all honesty they are not to my mind essential to running the game so perhaps the effort could be better spent elsewhere?

Just a thought.

Pete


With increasing age should come wisdom and tolerance, but as the saying goes, "there is no fool like an old fool" as I prove regularly!

#4253839 - 04/28/16 11:32 AM Re: mini pics - necessary or just a PITA? [Re: Rotton50]  
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The thing is that if a modder makes a theatre and does not want to make minipics then if the "NoMiniPics" file is in theatre folder only the text will be displayed. That is where the "NoMiniPics" file really needs to be, otherwise if it is in the root folder it works globally.

I am just going back one step to make a pair of exes with Ralf's original "encounter" spawn code in it. The current ones have my modified version which spawns things online. That would be great, but knowing the ways that multiplayer often uses the player's settings, I would expect that if planes are spawned for one player, they might not be, or different ones might be spawned at different airfields, for other players.
In Ralf's code spawning is turned off for multiplayer games.


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Mark Twain: I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.

I am now of an age at which I no longer need to suffer fools gladly
#4253855 - 04/28/16 12:16 PM Re: mini pics - necessary or just a PITA? [Re: PeterMBooth]  
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Rotton50 Offline
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Originally Posted By: PeterMBooth
Hi Guys,

Yes, I like the mini-pics and they do improve the atmosphere as Ray says, but I gather they are hard work and in all honesty they are not to my mind essential to running the game so perhaps the effort could be better spent elsewhere?



We are in agreement on this Peter.

Jel, what is the exact name of the no mini pics file? I can't find it.


Heck, even paranoids have enemies.
#4253864 - 04/28/16 12:43 PM Re: mini pics - necessary or just a PITA? [Re: Rotton50]  
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The "NoMiniPics" file is a completely new one and I am just about to upload a 7-zip wich generates an "EAW Versions" folder the four new exes (V87), and a separate "NoMiniPics" file.

The exes are old and new map versions with the minipic toggle. One pair has Ralf's original encounter spawning code, the other pair with (Encounter) in their names has my modified version of his code.

"V87.exe" is now in your folder at FTP site smile

For anyone running "140Multiplayerl2016" the "V87.exe" is now at the OneDrive site in my signature wink

Last edited by MrJelly; 04/28/16 12:50 PM.

Fly EAW online at GameRanger: GameRanger Site

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Mark Twain: I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.

I am now of an age at which I no longer need to suffer fools gladly
#4253886 - 04/28/16 01:49 PM Re: mini pics - necessary or just a PITA? [Re: Rotton50]  
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Rotton50 Offline
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Ok, got it.

Do I install this AFTER the 1.4Multiplayer2016 file or INSTEAD of it?


Heck, even paranoids have enemies.
#4253891 - 04/28/16 02:02 PM Re: mini pics - necessary or just a PITA? [Re: Rotton50]  
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Run it in the "140Multiplayerl2016" folder.
It will add the four new exes to the "EAW Versions" folder for selection by the DSPicker.
It will put a "NoMiniPics" file in the "140Multiplayerl2016" folder.

There is nothing special about the "NoMiniPics" file. The exe just checks for the presence of a file named "NoMiniPics" in either the root or the selected theatre folder. If it is found, then you do not see the minipics smile


Fly EAW online at GameRanger: GameRanger Site

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Mark Twain: I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.

I am now of an age at which I no longer need to suffer fools gladly
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