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#425095 - 04/27/04 02:26 PM Corner speeds for Sukhois...  
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Magoo Offline
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Anyone here know the approximate corner speeds for the Su-27 and Su-33 please? Is there any difference? I assume there would be... ;\)


"Ertrage die Clowns!"

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#425096 - 04/27/04 05:29 PM Re: Corner speeds for Sukhois...  
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Yes Mr. Magoo

Check the link below
http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_097d.html


Su-27 Corner Velocity(Km/h) 545
Su-33 Corner Velocity(Km/h) 590


Speed is life....
#425097 - 04/28/04 02:06 AM Re: Corner speeds for Sukhois...  
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Many thanks! ;\)


"Ertrage die Clowns!"

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#425098 - 04/28/04 05:08 AM Re: Corner speeds for Sukhois...  
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Anytime \:D


Speed is life....
#425099 - 04/28/04 08:36 AM Re: Corner speeds for Sukhois...  
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BTW: that would tend to put the Su-27 in the F/A-18 corner of the envelope, wouldn't it? Funny; I always thought of it as more of an energy fighter than an angles fighter...looks like I was wrong. Maybe now I can start making some real progress!


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#425100 - 04/28/04 02:00 PM Re: Corner speeds for Sukhois...  
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True to both I guess, angles and energy but I'm sure it cannot sustain the angle aspect for long thus relying more on energy ...Now imagine you have the Su-35 with thrust vectoring \:D


Speed is life....
#425101 - 04/28/04 02:35 PM Re: Corner speeds for Sukhois...  
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Just remember that the 'energy and angles' concept is a comparative term only...it all depends on what an aircraft is being compared to.

#425102 - 04/28/04 04:03 PM Re: Corner speeds for Sukhois...  
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Yes very true Andy. Everything is relative \:\)


Speed is life....
#425103 - 04/28/04 11:36 PM Re: Corner speeds for Sukhois...  
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uhh the F-104 and a brick \:D

#425104 - 05/01/04 03:00 AM Re: Corner speeds for Sukhois...  

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Nice link this! \:\)
http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_097d.html

This is in game specs of course, but I´m still a bit amazed by the fact that the F-15 has the highest turnrate. Thinking of that the Su-27/33 is a more extreme and refined aerodynamic design than the F-15 (which indeed has some compromises for being able as a mach 2.5 interceptor). They should win the turnrate game just by their looks .

But, I´m no expert, so if anyone want to explain... ?

#425105 - 05/01/04 12:23 PM Re: Corner speeds for Sukhois...  
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Quote:
Originally posted by f16_filur:
Nice link this! \:\)
http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_097d.html

This is in game specs of course, but I´m still a bit amazed by the fact that the F-15 has the highest turnrate. Thinking of that the Su-27/33 is a more extreme and refined aerodynamic design than the F-15 (which indeed has some compromises for being able as a mach 2.5 interceptor). They should win the turnrate game just by their looks .

But, I´m no expert, so if anyone want to explain... ?
Glad the link was helpful.

I think you came very close to answering your own question in your first sentence... The results in the article are only an accurate representation of what happens in the game. In that article, I explained how the behaviour of the aircraft in the simulation was realistic, in terms of energy retention and the control commands required to max perform the jet, but only in general terms.

Many simulations are able to simulate their main “Featured Aircraft” with a passable degree of fidelity, in terms of aerodynamic characteristics and behaviour, but how close they match the performance numbers of the real aircraft is another issue entirely.

The most suspect area of modelling in any simulation is with regard to all aspects of weapon systems, performance and employment, simply because those are the most closely guarded areas of information, where very little reliable data can be found outside of military circles. However, in terms of the flight modelling, where simulations have the most difficulty, and are generally weakest, is in the area of dissimilar aircraft comparison.

Even in the case of aircraft dating back to WWII where there is a wealth of accurate and detailed information and data available, it is still possible to find glaring disparity in performance between one simulation and another. The problem arises because very often different sources of data conflict, and glaring conflicts in anecdotal evidence serve to confuse matters even more, and provide fuel for unending contention.

What hope then when you compare that to our modern Jet simulations where there is much less data available, where the data that is available is even more suspect, and where few of the aircraft have ever met in combat, and those that have met have had the engagement determined by striking differences in pilot skill and/or weapons systems. Where information regarding mock combats between aircraft come to us in mainly anecdotal form, and are generally complicated by unusual engine/weapon configurations, or some particular bias imposed by the set up.

Unfortunately, these facts conspire against the flight sim’ developer to the point that you simply can't look at what happens in any of the current crop of jet simulations and make meaningful comparisons to real world dissimilar aircraft performance and the resulting air combat, and probably never will.

#425106 - 05/01/04 01:26 PM Re: Corner speeds for Sukhois...  

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I see... thanks for the reply!!

#425107 - 05/01/04 02:36 PM Re: Corner speeds for Sukhois...  
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Also keep in mind that this is from 1.0 ... I think the flanker turns much better now that it has the 9g limit instead of the 8g, same for the MiG, though I'm not certain.


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#425108 - 05/02/04 12:49 AM Re: Corner speeds for Sukhois...  
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Yes, the Su-27 handles better with the 9g limit.

Generally speaking, the Su-27 and MiG-29 handle better at high AoA than U.S. counterparts, according to the literature. That figures with U.S. practice-we've always been energy fighters. Look at the Phantom and F-100, for example. Not to mention the F-86 v. MiG-15, and our WWII aircraft. All better in the energy game.

That being said, though, the Eagle and Su-27 are as close as makes no difference, aerodynamically speaking; the Su was designed to fight the Eagle, after all. The Crane's slight maneuverability edge won't save it against American pilots with way more hours and way better training, and an F-15 that is within 5% of its maximum high-AoA performance.

Miao, Cat


Miao, Cat

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