+1

First at all, this an internal problem with Aviodev and Tango, and nobodies knows what happened, we have here the words of Tango, but we do not have the words of Aviodev. About post? go to ED FORUM and see what happened. All people here are unhappy with Aviodev, really? why? Tango was suppost the coder, and they fired him and people support Tango,why?Tango, all aircrafts are ok in beta version, why did aviodev and veao release theirs aircraft with the same problems in the code? the same problems!. Axis animations in keyboards that now aviodev fixed and veao not,I had read that veao can not make the rear cockpit,and aviodev started initial code. tell me what did you do with this companies, step by step without lies. I do not believe you Tango until I know the version of Aviodev.

You seem to have made your mind up and know who to believe with regards to this internal problem!

my mind up is you believe tango because you like this kind of things.

So now you have gone from this



to this



An interesting combination.

I ask, how do you know this



when you previously stated



seems like your well informed with what happened and are in the "know" with what happened at Aviodev, so do share your source of information.

Why are you attacking Tango publicly when you should be pushing Aviodev for a response? I don't think anyone really cares who you believe. I personally do not like these discussions to happen out in the open as each and every village idiot will find a way to get involved and say their say (I am proof of that, of course). I have not bothered to read up on this issue anywhere else, but if I was ED I would give Aviodev an ultimatum to get this issue resolved peacefully otherwise all Aviodev items gets pulled from the store. The fact that this has not happened could mean that ED is sympathetic to Aviodev in this case.

We may never see the full truth behind this issue, but my advice to Tango would be to find a cheaper way to deal with this legally, but do it. You could even run a kickstarter to gather some funds to lawyer up as I am sure various customers would be keen to see for justice to be done.

Discussing this in public however may not get you anywhere, unless you find a lurking lawyer that is happy to assist you pro bono.

The longer this goes on however, the more idiots are going to post here.

It's a combination of several factors that make me take Tango's version with a huge grain of salt.

His current conduct is moronic. Now I'm not calling him an idiot, but what he's doing is completely counter intuitive. By making these continuous posts about how another company screwed him, his is making himself unemployable. No company is going to look at this and go "Oh well here's a well adjusted chap who just was in a hard spot", no, he's murdering his future employment opportunities. A person that unhinged so many months after the fires of being terminated should have cooled, he's still going on it like a poorly adjusted 15 year old.

Furthermore, the only thing we have to go on is his word, which is no better than the word of a McDonald's fry cook calling his manager a slut because she fired him for, as she claims, not showing up to work. Tango isn't some great vigilante, he's the guy that managed to tank two dev teams. Why is it only after a few months after he left that progress on the modules actually started getting made? Progress that he'll gladly take credit for, but if you point out the faults in the modules prior to his firing it's suddenly a crappy development team? Those modules had been stagnant for a year, and then he was fired, and suddenly updates started popping up with actual progress.

The nature of Tango's relationship with the two dev teams, apparently exists in a "verbal contract", which has very little legal standing. AvioDev has come out and said in rather plain language how they view the train of events, the words non compliance don't even need to be broached for his 4 month blackout, because he didn't have a contract, that's how lazy Tango was. A person looking to get a job done, seeks to root out miscommunication and make sure everyone's expectations are on the same level. A lazy, opportunistic person, loves ambiguity. I don't know anyone who would ever take on a large project like this without getting every detail in writing, unless it either was pro bono or they were looking to screw the other guy. The trouble is, Tango's not screwing his buddies by showing up after the couch has been moved up the steps for the free beer and pizza, he's dealing with companies, companies that are losing money because of his actions.

TL:DR: Tango needs to either provide some actual hard evidence of how he was screwed, because all his words and screaming tantrums look suspiciously like that one kid in class waaay back in high school who was only failing 'cause the world was out to get him.

very easy man, i have the modules, I had no updates from May to Octuber of c-101 Aviojet dll. 4 months aproximadly, second, Aviodev said it had many problems in the code when Tango sent the code to them, and they described some problems, and they fixed. VEAO has still the problems that Aviodev had in the past, they described, and I have the two modules. HAWK has still this kind of problems, but C-101 fixed, like axis animation, rear cockpit code...No body knows because they do not want to read and understand what they have in his eyes. Aviodev did not tell me anything, I have seen those kind of problems in my two modules, HAWK and C-101.NO STUPID CAN SEE WHAT HAPPEN IF HE HAS THE MODULES OF C-101 AND HAWK. DO YOU HAVE IT? IN STRANGE THAT THOSE MODULES THE CODER WAS TANGO.

I agree with what you have written, however the sentence I have quoted stands out, My opinion is that there are a few [edited] activists running the forums at ED who love licking the brown and having nando's with the devs at VEAO which probably saved both VEAO and Avio from getting canned and having their aircraft moved to the mods section.

That is what most likely saved both devs.

Fact is, VEAO stated on these very forums what went down with Tango, The administrators at ED's response was to ban Tango from those very forums.

I believe now that Tango is unbanned (not confirmed as I am currently banned myself) however he is sacked from Avio and VEAO yet the forum [edited] who had nothing to do with the sacking nor do they have any more information than what general users do other than what VEAO, AVIO and Tango have told us.

Seems legit on the reps for ED on their forums behalf.

Well if I have anything to add to this topic its that this situation is really unfortunate for everyone involved. In my world you guys (developers) are heroes who's abilities in the field of my favorite hobby leave me in awe. Sorry to see talented people working towards a common flight sim goal have a falling out. I hope a satisfactory conclusions for all parties are reach and work can continue. Not enough of you guys IMHO.

Calm down, let's not blow a code structure.

What is the point you are trying to get across? The fact that you purchased a product and are not happy with it, or the fact you purchased 2 products and are not happy with either?

I'd be taking the matter up with "up the tree at VEAO" or Aviodev rather than pointing the finger at someone who has not had anything to do with either project for months

Fact is that you, once again, do not know what you are talking about.

Tango being banned had nothing to do with what goes on between him and his former employers. I don't even recall that he was ever banned but then i no longer have access to the user logs so i can't be sure.

EDs only concern in the matter is that they want no part of a mud slinging contest between a developer and a former employee on their boards, which is their good right.

Hi everyone,

We still don't understand what is the target Tango is looking for. Apparently he wants to get paid, but are all this posts helping in that way? Is someone going to pay what he claims just because of this?

When this problem started, he threatened us with legal actions, and we said, go ahead, we are more than ready to defend ourselves in court, as what you are claiming is completely abusive.

Some months later he decided instead of taking this problem to the court, to bring it to a public forum. And we made our position clear, to publish only one post.
And now, there are still no legal actions from Tango, but again he decided to persist in bringing a personal matter to a public forum. If his final target is to get paid, we don't understand his strategy. He posted about the conversation with his lawyers, but did they advise him to post all this accusations which could be used against him in a court? Why is he acting like that if he is so confident about his claim? it makes no sense.

We don't understand what he is looking for, apart from damaging us as much as he can, entering in a "no return" mode. But what that shows is how unprofessional Tango can get to be. We are not going to enter here arguing with him or spreading bad words about Tango, as he is doing with us. We have lot of things more important to do, and anyone who has the chance to work with him in a long run, will discover all the facts they are asking in this thread.

Again, this is not the place for this matter, in a public forum where no evidences are required to someone who wants to be demandant and judge at the same time. If he is so confident and he has the truth, then he can take this to a court, where he will have to prove it and respond for all these accusations.

In any case, for the only positive thing about this, thanks Tango, everytime you try to hurt us, you make a stronger and more solid AvioDev team.

JuanOscar, you talk of a "no return" mode, as if there was any chance of me working with you again. What are you smoking?

We had an agreement that we all would earn a percentage of sales with no limit or restrictions. You decided to stop paying me and steal my work.

If my allegation is false, sue me. Curiously, it is you waiting for me to sue you. That is because I'm speaking the truth.



The only abuse here is being committed by you. You stole my work.

The reason for chickening out and saying crap like "a public forum is not the place", is because you don't want to be caught telling lies in public. Your only position is to lie, or to admit the truth in that you stole my work. Either way, you're screwed and know it.



You damaged your own reputation when you decided to steal my work. Sue me. I'll have a great day in court exposing you.

Tango.

Anyone reading will notice he doesn't deny that he owes me money.

He owes me money, and he knows it. If my allegation is false, sue me.

Here are the basic facts JuanOscar can not hide from:

* there is documentary evidence of proof of the existence of an agreement to make royalty payments (e-mails, bank statements)
* he owes royalties to me on all sales of product that contain my work
* my work is in the C-101
* the world can see the C-101 is on sale

Conclusion: he owes me royalty payments. As of this writing I'm owed payments for Q3 2015, Q4 2015 and Q1 2016.

Tango.

So sue them and stop wasting our time here.

No. I've decided that if they think I'm making false allegations, they can sue me. Thing is, I'm not, so they won't.

The best way to expose dishonest companies/groups/people is to shine a light on them and expose them. Like cockroaches, they only thrive in the dark.

The main thing is that any devs thinking of working with these people in future won't do so. That will prevent them ripping off anyone else. I hope it will also help deter future customers from buying anything from them.

I'm sorry for the existing customers of AvioDev.

Tango.

I am sorry but considering that you have 19 posts here, almost all of which are in this thread responding to Tango and it appears this account was created specifically to yell at Tango, He isn't wasting YOUR time. You are doing that.

Tango only wants [edited].. aviodev. nothing more, because he wants more money without working, tango you did not finish your work, and aviodev paid you, the code belongs to aviodev if they paid you and you did not finish all the job, all legal action should win by aviodev, if you did not sign a contract and if you did not finish your work, you will lose your complain and you know that, is why you are writting here, because you lost your head, and you try that everybody believes you, only writting here, I do not believe you, and seeing juan oscar post, is much credible than yours Tango. I will support AVIODEV 100%. waiting for cc and afm, take yout time juan oscar, hope you will finish soon, it is a great aircraft, and it will better than l-39


Maverick82...your first words here as a new member was to tell someone to "shut up" and now you're bypassing the swear filter early on. Maybe you should dial it down a little before posting again.

Incorrect. You are simply trying to justify stealing my code! The only people destroying AvioDev is AvioDev, when they decided to stop paying royalties owed to me and steal my code. I'm just telling the world about it as my attempts to resolve this privately failed.

Seeing as you apparently know so much, you will know that only Q1 and Q2 royalties were paid. AvioDev owe Q3 2015, Q4 2015 and Q1 2016 royalties. I know AvioDev understand what this means, because they already paid two quarters worth of royalties. What AvioDev have done is to stop paying royalties, kick me out, and steal my code. AvioDev continue to sell my work, but are failing to pay me. AvioDev are in breach of the agreement.

As I said in my previous post, dishonest people can only thrive in the dark, so I'm here breaking down the walls and letting the sunlight in.

I still think you work for AvioDev.

Research English Law. Not having a written contract does not automatically mean that no agreement exists, nor does it mean my work automatically belongs to the company I'm working with. That is not how it works. We have a provable agreement, and AvioDev is in violation of it.

The rights to the code belong to me. This is in writing (check your e-mails). Also, parts of the code provably exists in other previous products as it was used in multiple previous projects prior to the C-101 (including VEAO Hawk, and before that VPJT L-39) long before I even heard of AvioDev. The rights to the code is provably mine.

AvioDev only have the rights to use my code as long as they pay me royalties. They decided to stop paying me royalties, so they lose that right.

As AvioDev fired me, that absolves me of any responsibility to complete anything (this was never a requirement for payment, either). The royalties are owed on an on-going perpetual basis for as long as the product is on sale and my work is contained within that product.

Why people think stealing software/intellectual property is something defensible, I will never know!

Again, AvioDev stole my work, and stopped paying me for that work, which to this day they are directly profiting from. This is in direct violation of the agreement we had.

I'm assuming Maverick82 works for AvioDev (I could have a very accurate guess who it is), so on that assumption, seeing as you are so sure of your position, sue me.

Until then, AvioDev stole my work! Avoid!

Tango.