Sorry, I just was getting bored with the bland shots I've been seeing of late...

Not too shabby for an 18 year old sim!

Nice screens Mike!

AO

A few more for today...

Great Skins Mike, but this 3dz needs server attention!



It looks like one of Marek's original Biplanes [CR32?] We really need to go through the inventory of early models and make them fit for 2016.

I know, it's a lot of work, but we are not starting from scratch, we have the base F to start from.

If I might.

No point in duplicating the work. There are updated hi-res Cr32's and Cr42's in the 1.4 Mediterranean scenario. There are also updated Gladiators, Bulldogs and Gauntlets.

If you want them for an earlier exec you can pull them out of their folders and convert them to slot specific file names. They were all built with the empty F method so the R/S issues are close to nil.

I've converted about 90-100 planes with this method and many of them are included in the Mediterranean skin folders so check them out before proceeding with a new project.

FWIW, I'm building a biplane plane set for the Med. It will include the planes already listed plus the following:

Fury
Demon
Audax
Hector
He45
He51
Avia BH 33
Fairey Fantome
Avia 354
Letov 231
Letov 331
Neiuport Nid 52
Swordfish I
Swordfish IV
Aero A32

I've picked these particular planes because they all use the same basic set of files meaning the one "empty F" will work for all of them. I just have to break up the model into the correct pieces and they're done.

Hi Mike.

Not seen any of those models except your Glad. I have no idea, which models are updated, and which are not.

I'd just like the best models to be used in EAW, in 2016. A lot of my early stuff looks to my eye, very dated, but still not too bad, in comparison with full LR models, when you consider they are all 8bit 256 textures.

Building the Fw200 has shown me just how far we can push the models using all the available 3dz's joined together.

We used to post our updated models on Sandbagger's Site, so the 3dz model list got updated. Then everyone knew, which were the latest models to skin. In recent years we seem to have all, bar Mike, have stopped posting models for download by the public, and offer stuff internally, and in setups, which might not match the player's likes and dislikes.

I'm as guilty as anyone, at not posting models. The last ones being nearly 5 years ago! I'm going to correct this on my part, and it will give Sandy a bit more work!

Eh, that's me with the already done planes, not Mike.

You're right about not posting new models to Talley-ho. I fell out of the habit around the time we were developing SPAW.

That was a special set of planes that wasn't meant to have substitutions so to avoid compatibility issues I purposely didn't send the individual models to Sandbagger.

Then once 1.4 got going the planes were included with the various scenarios so it became less important to issue individual models. As I wrote above, anyone who wants a plane that is included with any of the 1.4 plane sets can easily acquire it and convert the file names back to slot specific.

In effect, the packages that are issued with 1.4 have become the default repository.

That's not to say we shouldn't get the inventory up to date at Talley-ho it's just that we'd have to put some thought into it. Do we make slot specific models for the 1.28 series AND slotless ones for 1.4?

Oh yeah, about 6 months ago I sent a PBY to Moggy that uses all the available 3dz's. It has working landing gear and movable wing floats which I'd never have been able to do without the new 3dz files. I'm hoping it gets into whatever project he's working on ( hint ).

Hi Ray.

I'm glad you see the problem, like me.

All this in house sharing is all well and good for us, but the new system has rather taken the fun out of the game, now everything is sets.

I have no idea how to slot a model anymore, and I guess off liners are in the same situation. Why do I always fight foe the silent ones?

I'm going to issue models as 1.28, and they can be taken as is, and used.

I'm not doin FM, or cockpits, others used to do them, and maybe new modders will come forward to fill in the missing bits.

I can just hear Tony moaning.

I did this (Cr42) for Jordi (Stratos)... "These 8 bit skins were created by Iron Mike based on the work of Jan Tuma - Flying Tiger. (190A Slot)" It was the best model available at that time.

I am not a model builder, I only bend and straighten the odd element when it messes with a skin. I tend to super detail my projects making all the panel lines and rivets go where they were on the prototype machines. I could be a bit less detailed but that wouldn't be me. I also will use a low rez model over a HR one it it has a better overall depiction of the machine I am doing.

My work is based on y'alls stuff. Mainly John and Rays for the newer models. And, I use Sky Lark's (David) and Flying Tiger (Ade) as starting points for many skins.

No duels at dawn for me. Too lazy...

Hi Tony.

Just one question.

How does that help the offliners?

Nothing new publically posted, on any of our websites, other than via in house forums, gives the impression the Sim is dead.

We know that is not the case, but the new system has it's advantages buildng a fixed setup, but stops the casual player messing around, having fun.

Maybe this would be a good time to talk about something that's been percolating in my brain for a while.

Since setting up the planes and plane sets for the Med upgrade it kept occurring to me that once these planes were added to this particular scenario they could be plucked out and added to any other scenario.

For instance these biplanes I'm adding are really very compatible with SAW and FAW so the originator could very easily add them to the original for a super quick upgrade.

So that got me thinking.

Jel, how far fetched would it be to have a central warehouse of ALL the plane folders and then set up the picker program with an option for a player to literally pick his own planes by clicking on each one he wanted in the mix? It would make total customization possible for the first time and might entice some new players since, to my knowledge, no other sim allows for that.

I'm not advocating removing the planesets entirely of course. Mainly because the online players have to have exactly to same setup to play the game so they would need the ability to select an entire planeset for compatibility.

This possibility would also put to rest the concerns over uploading individual planes to Sandbagger's. A player could download a new model, add it to his personal inventory and go fly. If for some reason the player wanted to use the plane in a 1.28 set up the MogProg program could be offered with some simple instructions for renaming the plane to the desired slot.

Well Tony, I just build things, and I will continue to support the old slot system.

What you do with the models, once I release them, is up to you. I only just got to grips with OAW, and everything changed, new FM's, new slot-less system, and god knows what else. Too much for me to keep up with, for sure!

This is nothing personal Tony, just I have very little time for anything EAW, and what I do have, I will spend modelling.

I have this big ol' planes folder which started out as the planes for Dunkirk with old style FMs. It now has virtually everything relating to all the scenarios I have dabbled in including Tuma's Munich 38, AITW, Dunkirk, Bomber Command 1939-41, Iraq, Syria, China, and Midway - all old style FMs.

As Ray suggests, for any particular setup in 129 I just "perm 8 from 10" i.e. make a pdir/fmdir.set with the Jelly tools.

But recent work with 128C has created a dilemma

Jel,

Ok, as you've shown, it doesn't take much to move plane sets around and I like the idea of dropping different planes into different scenarios but we're still limited to entire plane sets.

I'm not being critical just working a thought exercise. How hard would it be to institute individual plane picking?



John,

I know how you feel. It was very frustrating familiarizing myself with the 1.4 system and I walked away from the whole thing more than once. It took a looooooong time for me to get comfortable with it but there are huge advantages once you conquer the intricacies.
Don't give up.

I would have though the opposite.

I see all these individual plane folders and I think to myself "what if there was a way to just pick my own planes rather than a whole set?"

Tony, this Defrag problem has been part of EAW since 1998, and I don't see it as a problem like you do, when a PC can defag while your running it. Mine does, so that is a bit of a Red Herring in 2016.

We lost Ade because of the non stop run of modded EXE's, never giving anyone long enough to play catchup. The change from 1.24, 28, to 29, in the space of a year or less, drove away several old hands. You might have not noticed them drifting off, but I did, and I joined them, for a while out of shear frustration.

Now, I support a game, I no longer understand, and I bet you, many of the viewers don't have a clue how to mod anything either. Which, stangely, was the reason I got involved with EAW 16 years ago!

We need a stable, level playing field to work with, one can be 1.40, but for the casual off liners who like to mess around, an exe with default read from root as standard.

Two exe's should be enough for everyone, depending on if your off liner, or an onliner.

OK Tony, I knew you'd say that.

It's all become a one way street.

There are two sides to the coin.

On the one side there is the frustration of keeping up with all the changes but that same development is probably what's kept interest in EAW after 18 years.

So, in the end, we make of EAW what we will.

As Jel says, there are enough variations now that both a player and a modder can choose from many different levels of complexity.

I've chosen to stay current but each to his own.

See, I understand the problem with relentless changes, and to some extent felt that way myself. But that is because I am a modder and an offline player. But it has seemed increasingly to me that there can be two or more levels of EAW. We can still use 128C and play classic EAW, and use any and all of the mods made since 2000. But perhaps we do need a new "Classic eaw" download page, with 128C-2016.

Yes Moggy, that is another unhelpful problem. The gamers who don't visit here have no access to any current stuff, as nothing is posted on Sandbagger's. Not one exe, or campaign is posted, only here by PM to Tony, can you get anything. It makes EAW look dead, outside of this forum.

At one time there was a project to update the classic 1.2 game [EAW GOLD?]. The idea was to just replace the default stuff with HR models, updated FM's, etc. But I think Ray got carried away with the target upgrade [no offence]! Ray did update the remaining LR models to HR, so it should be easy to make a new default EAW, and post it publically.

We can have Classic 1.2X EAW Gold and 1.4X EAW Platinum. Some stuff: planes, Tmods, terrains, scenarios - can move between.

Here's a bit of EAW Gold, on 128C with some retrofitting from later versions:

What has happened to my screenie post?

It went from my posting jpgs of my games and work to a rant about how they are destroying peoples hard drives because of their size, And, another rant about the merits about various new exes.

I must have a magic machine because I load and unload 4 to 6 squadrons per flight and don't have performance issues or tons of scattered orphan files within the EAW folder.

There are good and bad points to your discussion but, they do not belong in a screenie post.

I for one (because of my skins) tend toward the 1.2X exes. I really don't have the time to fly on line and feel left out of the most recent developemenmts of 1.4. To me the whole reason for the lastest work is as a base for continued programming and modders be damned.

@ IM,
Really? They made it so you do not need to produce both 8 bit and 24 bit skins.

@ Jon,

The slots still exist, they are just filled outside of the exe and the root. If you do not like Tony's work, I am sure you know how to mod for other exes. If your lucky then Tony will spend his hobby time making your work compatible with his, as he has for others over the last few years. It's your life, live it as you want, but don't demand that others share your opinion unless you are paying there living.

The next is directed at the vibe of late, and it is probably out of line.
I regret any work I contributed to EAW. Some always whine the program will not do what they want and whine when the game engine changes. I wonder how Ralf is, I always enjoyed discussing code with him and Woody.


IM,
Your skin work is excellent. Please post more screens.

I don't know what this means but for IM's sake I'm not going to pursue it.

Explanation Ray.

All I meant was the difference between a simple update of the Default game [Gold], and what you created, a mega upgrade!

Tony.

Why do you find it so hard to understand, I don't understand the no slot system, or all your readme posts?

It took me ages to learn how to lay railways, and you said it was easy!

Try building a 3dz model from scratch, that's easy for me!

Please guys, stop sniping here. We all have stuff to contribute and we are very protective of the work we do. I am clueless on the actual modeling part. I just make small changes to an element here and there. I'll never make a model myself. Even with traning wheels and a hands on guide it is beyond my pay grade.

Ray, I think John actually complimented you on the target upgrade comment.

Both of you have your own methods of modeling. I think that instead of finding fault you should talk about which planes you are planning to do and go from there. I the past both of you have colaborated in fixing models for me and the sum of the work exceeds the individual work.

You asked for no off topic comments here so I'll just point out that adding "no offence" to a compliment pretty much take it out of the compliment category.

No more comments for me in here out of respect for you.

I was refering to this more recent one...

"Explanation Ray.

All I meant was the difference between a simple update of the Default game [Gold], and what you created, a mega upgrade! "

At least I thought this post was an acknowledgement of you effort...

Personally, I don't like the bickering that is going on and call on everyone involved to let these things go.

Yes. More screenies please!

Here we go again.

Same guy starts it each and every time and then "everyone stop bickering".

Sorry Ray, I really do not mean to offend. Mia Culpa.

Hey, I'm not offended, Mike.

Just fed up with the blind eye everyone turns towards one guy.

And that "one" being who Ray?

As If I don't know.

Just tell me to leave, and I'll go, and you guys can do what you like.

There is a noted increase in "sniping" as of late. While the prior 6 months were relatively snipe free.

Make of it what you will.

I've done a few skins for Ray for his Malta. I'll put up some new screenies later

HS129 B-1


HS129 B-2


HS129 B-3


And then something for my peace of mind...





Ah the Panzerknacker...

I've not noticed any changes here Ray.

I see a change. I see IM posted some nice WIP screens. Well done!



Tony,
Are there any limitations of a 3DZ between the original 1.28c and the recent work you have been doing for Moogy?

Jon,
I fail to see why you are upset about 1.40. It has nothing to do with your modding. Perhaps this is out of line but do you hate electric locomotives and think they should all be converted back to diesel or steam?

Me,
I do not like Win10 or modern ride by wire sport bikes, they make love my Win98, C language and 2 strokes even more. The 90's RULE

Funny you mentioned that. I had made a post to "another thread" about EAW can make ship convoys zig-zag between waypoints if the AI is under attack, but the thread was deleted while I was trying to post. It's almost 15 years since I started learning "games" so they would be what I wanted.

The old girl is now and will forever be hobby time. Each person plays at the game engine for there own hobby time. I am thankful we were granted the rights to IP so we can play at our desired hobby.

Mike,

Nice skins. Big improvement of the stock ones in the Med upgrade.

Send them over and I'll add them to the pack.

Look at your email Ray...

Hunters and the Hunted

Super Skins Mike!

Mike, that Vindicator shows just what can be done with a lo-res model. It takes a combination of 3dz and skinner skills but that thing looks as good as a lot of hi-res models. Nice work.

Thank you all.

Nothing better than a compliment!


More to come!

Zestorer





AVG over Rangoon




Work in progress

Great screens!

Pitty Ade never did a Squadron of Flying Tigers.

The pinched tail on the 129's looks odd. No way to tweek it?

I've got the data to do most of the 3 squadrons that made up the AVG. But, there doesn't seem to be any call for them or a campaign that could use them.

The tail is as downloaded.

That was Ade's project, which like WWI got lost in a fog of game changes.

I've always thought the China/Japan war in the 30's would have been a worthwhile project. Lots of interesting Japanese aircraft, and an odd collection of Chinese planes, but with the exception of the P40's, the war was a bit one sided.

Wot no V



LOL

Ade did make an AVG scenario:



Basically a single mission thingy.

Flyright and I started on a China/Japan scenario a good while back. Over the years it has got as far as a map, aircraft, screens, basically another single mission thingy.

I have them both in my old 128C setup.

"V" Victor reporting...

Merci

China was my pre-code attempt at an "EAW small world". The effective map uses about half the usual space.

If Ade's original Flying Tigers setup doesn't have an edited map, I wonder if it would work using the China map?

Sounds like Iron Mike's going to have a reason to do a set of Tigers.

Some of the aircraft types used in the Second Sino-Japanese War:

Chinese and American Air Units

Italian built: Fiat CR-32, biplane fighter
British built: Gloster Gladiator, biplane fighter
German Built: Heinkel He 50, biplane dive bomber
Japanese Built: Nakajima Type 91, biplane fighter
U.S. built:
Douglas O-2MC, biplane scout/light bomber
Boeing Model 281 (P-26C) Peashooter, monoplane fighter
Curtiss XF11C Goshawk (P-6 Hawk II), biplane fighter
Curtiss BF2C Goshawk (Hawk III), biplane fighter
Curtiss Hawk 75M, monoplane fighter
Curtiss P-40 Tomahawk, Warhawk, Kittyhawk, monoplane fighter
Vultee P-66 Vanguard, monoplane fighter
Republic P-43 Lancer, monoplane fighter
Republic P-47 Thunderbolt, monoplane fighter
North American P-51 Mustang, monoplane fighter
Lockheed P-38 Lightning, twin booms fighter/bomber
Lockheed A-29 Hudson, 2-engine medium bomber/reconnaissance
North American B-25 Mitchell, 2-engine medium bomber
Consolidated B-24 Liberator, long range 4-engine heavy bomber
Soviet built:
Polikarpov I-15, biplane fighter
Polikarpov I-152, biplane fighter
Polikarpov I-153, biplane fighter
Polikarpov I-16, monoplane fighter
Tupolev SB, 2-engine medium bomber
Tupolev TB-3, 4-engine long-range heavy bomber

Japanese Air Units

Kawasaki Ki-10, Army Type 95, biplane fighter (Allied codename Perry)
Mitsubishi A5M, Navy type 96, monoplane fighter (Allied codename Claude)
Mitsubishi A6M, Navy type zero, monoplane fighter (Allied codename Zeke)
Nakajima Ki-27, Army type 97, monoplane fighter (Allied codename Nate)
Nakajima Ki-43, Army type 1, monoplane fighter (Allied codename Oscar)
Nakajima Ki-44, Army type 2, monoplane fighter (Allied codename Tojo)
Nakajima Ki-84, Army type 4, monoplane fighter (Allied codename Frank)
Kawasaki Ki-48, Army type 99, 2-engine medium bomber (Allied codename Lily)
Mitsubishi G3M, Type 96, 2-engine long-range bomber (Allied codename Nell)
Mitsubishi G4M, 2-engine long-range bomber (Allied codename Betty)

And a few more here with profiles.

http://www.worldatwar.net/chandelle/v2/v2n2/china30s.html

In this neck of the woods there is also Jan Tuma's Russo/Chinese "Nomohan" scenario with screens and a more or less full plane set. Though I suspect it's the default map.

Col - I recognise many in that list from our China scenario. I seem to recall actually flying a mission in the "Peashooter".

Don't want to get too far ahead of ourselves but here's a list the planes I've built, modified or corrected that would fit this scenario, although some would need new insignia:

Fiat CR-32
Gloster Gladiator
Heinkel He 50
Boeing P-26C Peashooter
Curtiss Hawk 75M
Vultee P-66 Vanguard
Republic P-43 Lancer
Lockheed A-29 Hudson
Nakajima Ki-43
Nakajima Ki-44
Nakajima Ki-84
Dewoitine D-510

Hi Tony.

Most of those Japanese planes are too modern for the pre 39 China war, you need Claude and Nate fighters, and varnished Zero's [sort of Gold colour]are the most moder fighter. Moggy has my HR Claude, which needs fixing, and IM has my HR Gladiator, I also did a HR Zero.

Float planes were Biplanes, and there were still lots of mid 30's designs in front line service, pre 39.

1st Pursiut Squadron, Adam and Eve, white fuselage stripe, numbered 1-33.

2nd Pursuit Squadron, Pandas(?), blue fuselage stripe, numbered 34-66.

3rd Pursuit Squadron, Hell's Angels, red fuselage stripe, numbered 67-99.

However, the stripe colors rather than the aircraft number are the most accurate measure of squadron assignment.

Looks like it would work, pending anything better.

Last night I took up the Col's HR Claude, in the China setup:

This is running in my 128C-2016 setup, and its the original China setup:





It is the first time I have had this scenario out for a while. You're right Jel, even in its uncompleted state, there is a lot of fun to be had!

This is amazing, considering the Claude was never finished! Still, the model I did, seems to have stood the test of time well. I found a Flight file and Loadout.dat, which were made for the Claude. Who needs them?

I seem to have FM and load data for the Claude, don't know if it's the same. Could you send over?

Jan's Nomohan planes set up in another "crude" planeset in the China folder:

Jel: Airdrop in your folder at the FTP site

Thanks. Now I realise that the blocky prop I was getting is with the KI-27 which I think is in the 109G slot. Can you check that one please
Is the original China d/l still available at Sandbaggers?

Uploading complete China setup to your FTP folder now.

Merci

I can verify blocky in-cockpit prop in the Ki27 slot:

Guys. Is that a HR or LR Claude? It looks like a LR model, which had no cockpit. only the one which Moggy has is the correct "new" model.

The cockpit it should have was the default Fw190a, with a new wing view 3dz/Texture

Col - Jel is talking about the Ki27 (looks suspiciously based on one of Woolfman's Polish aircraft) not the Claude. The Claude is to all intents and purposes complete and fine.

Okay Jel. There is plenty to do to clean up the scenario.

Love that crazy terrain

Hi Guys,

Better than nothing but the Ki-27 certainly needs quite a lot of work if anybody has the time and inclination. The cowling is blocky and the cockpit/upper fuselage is nowhere near. Much better than anything I could do of course so no offence intended to whoever made it.

Pete

That is a PAW Ki-27 Nate then?

It's a very basic, crude model, which would need a total rebuild to bring it upto date. Lots of the old PAW planes still linger in the shadows forgotten.

I could do a rebuild, after I finish the Fw200, in a few weeks.

I have about 10 skins, some with models in them of the Nate.
Not sure if there's anything 'new' or better for you guys there:

https://www.mediafire.com/folder/3f6i19f4bxcjc/ki27(nate)

Hi Mark.

The PAW model, had a wire moving prop, which was updated to an EAW style prop, and a glazed cockpit added, but I don't think there was anything done after that.

A lot of PAW models were converted into Russian models, which did not have proper glazed cockpits either. There might be some still posted on Sandbaggers, from about 2000/01.

My HR Claude was based on the PAW Nate model, but totally rebuilt in 2006, and somehow laid forgotten for 10 years, as there was no use for it.

The Claude was hiding in the China setup in plain sight

Best place to hide anything!

Both the Nate and Claude are missing from Sandbagger's model list, and I've just been poking about on Check Six, and there are still lots of 2001 downloads [7 pages] available!

I was looking for a lost model of the Gigant. Has anyone got a copy?


One to check out for compatabillity with new EXE's?

http://woolfman.republika.pl/oahu.zip

Now I thought it was a PAW model, but it was made from a PAW Val.

Model date 7.12.2000

Woolfman's Readme.





We have come a long way since then.

I thought the Nate looked like one of Woolfman's

I have the Me323 Gigant. Can sort out that and the non-water water tile tomorrow.

Hi Mark.

Of the Nate's you have, there are 3 of the early models
RED13
RED14
NATE

Then you have 4 improved models by Capt Kurt, which are a lot better than the early model.
Ki27Nate1stSentai
Ki27Nate4Chutai
Ki27Nate77thSentai
Ki27Nate50thSentai
A couple have TNT skins, which can be easily converted to BMP and used.

Just been trying to load the models into our 3dz Studio, but they are all suffering from errors, which do not effect the model in game, but CTD the Studio.

This model was made using the old Alessadro Java 3dz Studio, and text converter, a year or so before we got the new one from Gurney, and making changes became a lot easier.

I've had this before, and it's a pig to fix. It's an error created in converting a model to text, modding it, and changing it back to 3dz. I'll have to convert the model to text, and see if I can find the error.

Ah the nostalgia of fixing those old models

Makes sense - tail end and wings are a bit "Val" like.

Pete

In the early days Pete, there was a hunger to fill the inventory of planes with simple repaints, of stock models, to make them look like other aircraft.

We had no ability to re work the RS, other than by hand, on paper. I tried this, but never got the hang of it. Mapping changes were mostly done by eye, or later by calculator, pencil and paper.

The only way to make element changes, was to use the text converter, and view changes in Alessandro's studio, which allowed you to move nodes, and mapping but nothing else.

So twisting what we had into other shapes, was the limit.

Moggy discovered you could split the model into parts, and hardpointed it back together, allowing for a better HR skin.

Then came the discovery, we could add -32768 to a Normal, and split the element to refine the crude shapes. I think the Finical of this way of modding was my HR Hurricane, which under everything, is the old Default EAW Hurricane!

Chompy set about converting a lot of the popular planes to this new way of skinning, and updated the models. Most of these models are still used today, despite being done over 10 years ago!

These times were over 14 years ago, but it only seems like yesterday.

That was the sophisticated way. I think Paulo actually managed some minor 3dz remodelling by hex editing the 3dz files.

That way madness lay ...

Moggy.

Have you still got that screenshot of mapping madness?

I used to have hundreds of sheets of paper with model mapping on them, but they all went in the bin years ago.

I have somewhere. I'll have a look. Gigant airdrop despatched.

This is that first ever hi-res model:

Here it is:

Hi Moggy.

That's an RS calculation, which we do in a second these days, as long as the model has no errors in it!

An RS calculation it certainly was. Took longer than a second

Anyway - what screenshot did you mean then?

Mapping Madness.

Hi Guys,

Yes I remember the "FW 190" Zero etc well. Probably still have all that lot in one of my save folders from when I first discovered the Forum - must be 16 years ago or longer I guess. Life was simpler then!

Pete

Sorry I'm late to the party, up to my ears in biplanes at the moment.

I have a Ki-27 and a Ki-51 that I never found a place for in SPAW.

I will convert them to 1.4 format and send them up to the GEN's server today.

And no copy to Sandy's, Ray?

I will put them in the China (etec) setup. Thanks Ray.

John, as we spoke about in another thread, I stopped sending models to Sandbagger's about the same time SPAW was released.

In fact we all stopped as I recall that conversation.

Around that time we were starting to get into compatibility issues so it was getting harder to ensure that users could get the models to work in the various iterations of the execs.

Instead of sending individual models that may or may not work I decided to concentrate on packages. Something that the 1.4 series excels at, BTW.

I still believe that we should get our heads together and come up with a way to make a central inventory of planes and a method for allowing the individual users to make their own plane sets on the fly.

Hi Ray.

I never stopped sending stuff the Sandbagger's, I just stopped making stuff for over two years!

I posted everything I finished, without an allocated slot, mainly because, no agreement was reached on a new extended Tmod list.

Something you have created in a limited form, as you never added any, by country buildings [German, Dutch, French, and so on].

So that is unfinished business.

As to the central inventory of planes. How on earth are you going to do that? There are hundreds of types, sub types, HR and LR, and different skins. Most will have a sort of flight file, but lots will have no loadout data of any kind, I'd hate to think what the download would be like!

There used to be an old program, which worked like your new file system, albeit it was based on the old slots. You could load a single plane, or set of, and was great for off line games, just can't think of the name of the program. It was before OAW, by a long way. 2001 or 2 vintage.

The thing with such a massive project is there needs to be an easy way to name the files logically, and simply.

Everything I did with file names, simply used what we had used, and extended it. Simple linking 3dz files to textures. Now, why the simple system was so bad, it had to be totally changed, without any real conversation with the community.

I'm sure we can keep all the slots and naming system as was, added VCG, flight and loadout files, for each aircraft, and swapped them in and out as you like, without changing anything else.

Sorry, but I like nice comfy slippers, not new shoes!

Better to spend time adding support for 6 engines so my Gigant will be able to fly!!

Nearly every zip has either a jpeg, or bmp screenshot.

In early zips, they were nearly always bmp, as they taken straight from the game.

Hi Tony.

This is what your re inventing.

Relent's' 'Skins-n-More'.
'Cord's' EAW page (Utilities menu) - 'Relent's' EAW skins page (Downloads page) - SimFiles (EAW link)

Remember it?

Anyone got a copy?

I understood the first, and last bit of your reply, but you lost me in the middle!

Anyway, if you hate bmp screens, your going to be busy converting them to jpeg. I would guess about 2005/6 would be about when they changed over to jpeg.

That's why you won't find many.

Forgive my confusion. You said something different in the other post which led me to believe you were in the same situation:

..."In recent years we seem to have all, bar Mike, have stopped posting models for download by the public, and offer stuff internally, and in setups, which might not match the player's likes and dislikes.

I'm as guilty as anyone, at not posting models. The last ones being nearly 5 years ago!"......

Going forward I would like to continue to develop a new inventory system. It will take some thought and maybe a few false starts but I think it can be done if we all pull together.

OK. I didn't think I was going to be quoted for everything I write. I don't keep notes Ray, so you got me! Well done.

I only found out when I last posted anything, when I checked my site last week! 2013 was the last time I added anything new, so not 5 but 3, but the rot set in a good 5 years ago.

Does not escape the fact, because of your love of posting sets, and not models, which are all packed up in a mega folders, makes Sandbagger's site worthless.

It probably does not matter too much, because who cares? Shame we have no counters on any of or pages, to see if anyone still visits.

This is incredibly tiring.

You have the reason for my lack of posting to Sandbaggers exactly backwards. Here is what I said a couple of posts back:

"Around that time we were starting to get into compatibility issues so it was getting harder to ensure that users could get the models to work in the various iterations of the execs.

Instead of sending individual models that may or may not work I decided to concentrate on packages. Something that the 1.4 series excels at, BTW."

I'd say just about everyone here understood me.

I'm calling for unity, not conflict, as we'd all have to work together on this project. I think it would be something unique to the flight sim world. That is, the ability to select an entire set of planes exactly as the player sees fit.

Ahem...













Shazam!

MS Screenies!

Was the red truly that bright? just curious.

Me too Ray.

Best to agree to disagree.

We seem to be looking at this from different ends of a tunnel.

Well, the issue was never in doubt you brilliant #%&*$#!

Of course, now I have a lot of work to do. I'm sure I'll have some questions and comments along the way but this is a great start. Thank you.

First comment is related to something John brought up.

We have numerous skins for the same planes so there's serious need for a picture viewer. As I add planes to the inventory I can make sure there is a jpg included.

Jel, I'll wait until the tutorial is ready. I'm finishing up a few models including a mid 1930's plane set for the Med package.

Well Ray, I'm happy you've taken on board some of my conserns, about trying to make this work.

Another thought is about sub types of aircraft.

Take the jolly Spitfire for example, Here is a site listing all of them:

http://www.sonsofdamien.co.uk/Spitfire%20variants.htm

How are you going to logically cover these types?

OK, the Spitfire is perhaps an extreme example, but you'll have a simular problem with Hurricane's, 109's and Fw190's, to name a few.

Flexability breads caos, or at least I think so. As a former Stock controller, I think of plane types as parts. In my world you would have

Spit 1 to 24 folders

And within each type folder a subs of each variant, or differnet skin

When you click on the Spit 1 folder, a list of descriptions of available planes should be displayed.

Simple text file of full details of each model is already available in the models readme

Select a plane from the list should show a screen of plane, and full readme

Click on the screen to select the file set

Your aircraft sets for senarios could be generated by a simple text file, storing all links for the planes for that setup

I know you store everything in seperate folders, so maybe you can think of a way to auto link models anf flight files.

Well, that wasn't so hard then?

I noticed the readme's seem to be missing from a lot of the set folders, but not all.

Now, you have a P51D and B, both very different.

I might add that this will be an organic process.

I think I would start with the existing planesets, converting them to this new system. Right off the bat that's a lot of planes.

Then, as I get comfortable with the process I can begin to import other planes, variants, skins and what-not.

While going though this myself I can begin to formulate a tutorial for general use so that other modders can add planes.

There will be stumbles and errors along the way but this is a great addition and we all need to fully embrace the advantages.

It comes to mind that some of you might have connections in other forums for other flight sims. You might want to spread the word once this upgrade is released. I don't think any other sim has this flexibility.

"Was the red truly that bright? just curious."

In a word, yep.

This chart is a bit fadded , but it shows that the colors were indeed very bright.

OK Tony.

Lets talk chalk and cheese then.

The fact you have two P51's listed, even though they are chalk and cheese, does not help much.

What you need is a search all plane set folders, for chalk or cheese, if you get my drift.

You only then need to display the selected type of plane, so the path info becomes irrelevant, just a scroll down list is all you need.

But, like with everything you need some rules.

If every folder containing a model is taged by P51D + File name [like 4th FG] it would be easy to search all folders, and list all available skins and models.

Doing a simple search of the 1.4 setup using Windows search I found these:
P51D 350th FS
P51D 487th FS 352ndFG
P51D 4th FG
P51D 82ndFs 78thFG
MS05 P51D 4th FG
P51D_01
P51D_02
P51D_def
Which leaves you about 100+ skins to add!

If these are the only P51D models in 1.4 then you only need to mod four folder name to fit.

Then you just need one set of flight files, in one folder to select the data files from, like you have now:
P51D_FMh you have 3 copies in the current file set.

Screenshots and readme files seem to be missing, in most of these folders, which is a bummer.

Still thinking this through, but you might need a type list, as a search criteria. FW190D. or Me109F are easy, but how do you shorten 140_GladiatorI_4SFTS_Iraq_01 into a common type name?

Hi Tony.

The user does not need to know where the file is, just the plane type [P51D for instance], list of files to select from, screenshot and readme info. As you select a type. Your program searches for the type selected, so it could be in any planes folder. Totally flexable.

Selecting the first of 4 planes, or MS sets to load into the game.

I guess when you are a knight of the sky, you brandish bright colors to draw attention to your self.

It's interesting to see the chip is labeled glossy. You do not see that from ground forces. ') maybe that is why fly guys got all the glory.

I really like your P38s.

Thanks Brit, the Little Friends weren't trying to hide from mid "43 on and, the bright colors made them less likely to be targeted by nervous gunners on the heavies they were escorting. A 109 and a Mustang look similar head on and the Jugs resembled 190s fron that angle too.

A good friends father said as much. He did 1 and a half tours in 17's before being shot down over Italy in '44. He never claimed to have hit anything and only hoped to have scared them as much they frightened him.

A few years ago I did a Mosquito unit, No.605 Squadron based on a ROTTON50 model. There was a bit of controvery at the time so I pulled it. I've been looking at unrealeased stuff and decided to put out a 1943 version (with red nightfighter codes) and the same unit as it was in '44 with sky markings.





But, the unit will only be in 24bit D3D format since it has issues with glide.

Nice

Indeed

I guess this is an example of the "bleed through" I have seen mentioned a few times? Quite a bizarre optical illusion - the outer wings look to be pointing straight up - bit like dazzle painting on ships it could have been worth trying to confuse the Luftwaffe pilots!

Pete

I assume from this you are making have made 24 bit BMP files.
That is all you need to do because all the exes from 1.28e onwards have been converted to use Glide3, which reads 512x512 BMP files
There is no longer any need to make an 8-bit version.

This may not fix the glide issue with this skin, but that is not the point I am making