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#4239132 - 03/12/16 02:41 PM
Glide 3 graphics
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,341
Col. Gibbon
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I was just wondering, as Glide 3 happily uses BMP files, in 256x256 and 512x512 24bit, do we really need 8bit support in TPC format anymore?
Any old TPC and easily be converted to BMP, and a lot of more modern skins are BMP anyway, and by not loading TPC's a large chunk of memory would be saved, and make the game load faster.
Win, Win?
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#4239166 - 03/12/16 06:26 PM
Re: Glide 3 graphics
[Re: Col. Gibbon]
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Posts: 13,341
Col. Gibbon
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No Ray, just converting an 8bit PCX to 24bit BMP. You can batch convert files in PSP. But, it would take a code change to stop the exe looking for 8bit TPC/PCX files and only look for BMP. The only snag I can think of are the TRA files, which are not the same as BMP standard 24bit Greyscale Tra. We would have to think of a way of loading them, alongside the BMP skins. I wonder if we could use 24bit screens now? 
Supports EAW 1.29.exe, Drop in and Play Technology. 1.29 download
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#4239333 - 03/13/16 10:22 AM
Re: Glide 3 graphics
[Re: Col. Gibbon]
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 12,497
MrJelly
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Thanks Allen. That is what I suspected too I wonder if we could use 24bit screens now? The TPC search is part of the sequence of D3D loading routines which then loads the BMP file if available. It is not involved in the display of selection screens. Separate routines do this, based on "*.MNU" files which often reference the screen to be used such as "Main2.pic" and the resolution. This is read from the referenced picture in a routine which reads TPC/PIC/MPC files. The game will CTD if the resolution of the picture does not match the resolution defined in the MNU file. It is a very complex series of inter-related routines, and this is why nobody has ever been able to replace the system with one that reads and displays BMP screens 
Fly EAW online at GameRanger: GameRanger SiteFaceBook Pages UAW 160 downloadsEAW ClubMark Twain: I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.I am now of an age at which I no longer need to suffer fools gladly
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#4239388 - 03/13/16 03:04 PM
Re: Glide 3 graphics
[Re: Col. Gibbon]
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 12,497
MrJelly
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Here are some edited code lines:
if (low_res_object_texture)
{
// 3dz files use .pcx extension even though we are using pic/tpc/mpc
len = strlen(P) - 4;
//reads the length of the name of the file referenced in the 3dz header and shortens it by 4 characters
strncpy(texture_name, P, len);
// creates the base file name
strcat(texture_name, "s.tpc");
// adds "s.tpc" to the base filename to define the low-res texture filename
You would recall that most 3dz files have a header with the ".PCX" extension such as "GRND02.PCX" The routine reads it to build a filename four characters shorter, making "GRND02" If it is low res then "s.TPC" is added making "GRND02s.TPC" This is the low res file that the exe will look for when low res is needed, and report missing if not found. Similar routines are used to build hi-res filenames and aircraft texture filenames from the 3dz header. If you make it add ".BMP" instead of ".tpc" the exe compiles, but crashes as soon as it cannot find the ".bmp" file it is looking for. In later routines if it finds the tpc file it checks for a bmp file with the same name and uses it:
len = strlen(texture->Name); // get the length of the file name
strncpy(Mf_name, texture->Name, len); // copy that many charactures to my file name and
// change the extension
Mf_name[len-3] = 'b';
Mf_name[len-2] = 'm';
Mf_name[len-1] = 'p';
Mf_name[ len ] = '\0'; // add an ending null character
if ( (fp = Copen( Mf_name, O_RDONLY | O_BINARY)) != -1) // file FOUND
Fly EAW online at GameRanger: GameRanger SiteFaceBook Pages UAW 160 downloadsEAW ClubMark Twain: I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.I am now of an age at which I no longer need to suffer fools gladly
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#4239648 - 03/14/16 09:46 AM
Re: Glide 3 graphics
[Re: Col. Gibbon]
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 12,497
MrJelly
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An interesting result. There were no Planem.3dz or Planes.3dz files in the folder. It ran perfectly. Then I switched to a previous exe (which has the loading routine for 'm' and 's' files active) and it still ran perfectly. I now realise that the exe only loads a 3dz file if it is present. It only spits the dummy if it loads a 3dz file but cannot find the referenced TPC file. In all I deleted 3104 files from the 140 folder for this test
Fly EAW online at GameRanger: GameRanger SiteFaceBook Pages UAW 160 downloadsEAW ClubMark Twain: I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.I am now of an age at which I no longer need to suffer fools gladly
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#4239656 - 03/14/16 10:43 AM
Re: Glide 3 graphics
[Re: Col. Gibbon]
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 12,497
MrJelly
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I just made this change
if (low_res_object_texture)
{
// 3dz files use .pcx extension even though we are using pic/tpc/mpc
len = strlen(P) - 4;
//reads the length of the name of the file referenced in the 3dz header and shortens it by 4 characters
strncpy(texture_name, P, len);
// creates the base file name
//strcat(texture_name, "s.tpc");
strcat(texture_name, ".tpc");
// Now adds ".tpc" and not "s.tpc" to the base filename to define the low-res texture filename
If a lo-res load occurs and the hi-res file is "MYTEXT.TPC" it loads "MYTEXT.TPC" and not "MYTEXTs.TPC". So it does not spit the dummy if the "MYTEXTs.TPC" file is missing. I temporarily removed several TMod "*.s.3dz" files from "FullMata", and there was no problem. With these changes there seems to be no detrimental effect on display, and if anything it seems better. The big bonus is that (at least for 140) modders no longer need to make these files as they are no longer used
Fly EAW online at GameRanger: GameRanger SiteFaceBook Pages UAW 160 downloadsEAW ClubMark Twain: I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.I am now of an age at which I no longer need to suffer fools gladly
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#4239676 - 03/14/16 12:23 PM
Re: Glide 3 graphics
[Re: Col. Gibbon]
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 12,497
MrJelly
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Viewing distances were fine That last code I quoted had the change which made the lo-res TMod "s.tpc" unnecessary. I have also remmed out the loading of the TMod L.3dz. It is easy enough for me to put these changes into 1.28 exes The best way is to stop the three 3dzs (Aircraft M, S and TMod L) that we do not want to use from being loaded. Otherwise if you leave one out of a new TMod set of files the 1.28 series exes may use the one in the "3d.CDF" which potentially could cause a problem. If a 3dz is not loaded, then neither is the TPC that it references.
Fly EAW online at GameRanger: GameRanger SiteFaceBook Pages UAW 160 downloadsEAW ClubMark Twain: I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.I am now of an age at which I no longer need to suffer fools gladly
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#4239723 - 03/14/16 03:04 PM
Re: Glide 3 graphics
[Re: Col. Gibbon]
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,341
Col. Gibbon
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A nobody
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We discussed this a long time ago when there was a much bigger active community, and at the time the EAW way of distance modelling was found to be best. OK, graphics cards are better, so as long as the FPS are not hit, dropping the M & L 3dz's can be argued as an improvement. but I remember VBH doing a hack with a 1.2 exe, and deleting the L and extending the view range made the FPS run at less than 10 FPS. At the time, the reason was given that the exe used a lot of CPU, and very little Graphics memory, and this caused a blockage, which slowed the game down. Since we went Glide 3, this problem seems to have improved, but I'd like to see how it runs with a maxed out planes formation, set at low level, and flying close to the ground so Tmods are all visible. That will show the effect of dropping all of those Tmods and M/S3dz's.
Supports EAW 1.29.exe, Drop in and Play Technology. 1.29 download
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#4239765 - 03/14/16 05:26 PM
Re: Glide 3 graphics
[Re: Col. Gibbon]
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,341
Col. Gibbon
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And those tests were with basically a default setup, not with your Tmod update, which might generate smoke, from even the biggest CPU! I've only got a 4Gig 32bit processor, 4Gig RAM, and an 16 x 1Tb ATI card, which was basically a 2005 machine, and I can't afford a new one, just to run Tony's new exe! 
Supports EAW 1.29.exe, Drop in and Play Technology. 1.29 download
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#4239790 - 03/14/16 06:41 PM
Re: Glide 3 graphics
[Re: Col. Gibbon]
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 12,497
MrJelly
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Montagnac, L'Herault, France
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Less than 10 I think. Multiplayer is a real test of FPS BTW there is a new 140exe we have been using at the d/l page "85Neaw.exe" Put it in the "EAW Versions" folder and load it with the DSPicker
Fly EAW online at GameRanger: GameRanger SiteFaceBook Pages UAW 160 downloadsEAW ClubMark Twain: I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.I am now of an age at which I no longer need to suffer fools gladly
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#4239792 - 03/14/16 06:49 PM
Re: Glide 3 graphics
[Re: Col. Gibbon]
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 12,497
MrJelly
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The final change I made in the "85Neaw.exe" was this:  There are three distance values in Planes.dat I have reset the three referred to in that routine so that they all equal the "LowDist" value which is invariably the longest. It seems have worked well online so far tonight
Fly EAW online at GameRanger: GameRanger SiteFaceBook Pages UAW 160 downloadsEAW ClubMark Twain: I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.I am now of an age at which I no longer need to suffer fools gladly
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#4239814 - 03/14/16 07:45 PM
Re: Glide 3 graphics
[Re: Col. Gibbon]
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 12,497
MrJelly
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Screenies from tonight's tests- note the reported framerate in the top right corner: Down among the houses in London  B17s just visible  Selectable at this range  Many planes, the city below and still a good rate  Smoke and fire  Flak, tracer, contrails and the city  A good game 
Fly EAW online at GameRanger: GameRanger SiteFaceBook Pages UAW 160 downloadsEAW ClubMark Twain: I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.I am now of an age at which I no longer need to suffer fools gladly
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#4239935 - 03/15/16 03:10 AM
Re: Glide 3 graphics
[Re: Col. Gibbon]
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,506
Brit44 'Aldo'
Every Human is Unique
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Every Human is Unique
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Posts: 1,506
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Mark,
Great feed back.
Jelly,
This is my opinion and my personal observation of how EAW D3D compares to EAW Glide, if the code will continue to use DX6 then abandon D3D and spend your limited time supporting the new Glide 3 builds.
Gibbon,
"I will ask nicely, on behalf of all the absent, like Ralf, and others."
Do not ask on my account. My best rig is much lower spec then yours and I am able to keep EAW active when I choose to try. It is thanks to the code work since I left the group and the recent Glide work that you helped with, but please do not lump the "others" into your opinion.
TPA who TWI
"The 10th Amendment simply says that any powers that aren’t mentioned in the Constitution as belonging to the government belong to the states themselves."
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#4239966 - 03/15/16 06:47 AM
Re: Glide 3 graphics
[Re: Col. Gibbon]
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 12,497
MrJelly
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Montagnac, L'Herault, France
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I think that Shogun would agree with my observations. In order to run properly the nGlide program needs the "eaw.ini" to be set at 1024x768. With Windows 10 it runs in full screen, not in a window. So we see a 1024x768 picture stretched to fit the screen, and there is some loss of quality. The framerates (20-30) I quoted previously were with d3d with the "eaw.ini" set to 1920x1080, and there was no stuttering. I have just done a comparison with the "eaw.ini" set to 1024x768 Settings - all high:  In d3d- 52 FPS:  Re-set to Glide- 60 FPS:  The pictures here are all 1024x768 because of the "eaw.ini" setting, but in reality they were the full 1920x1080 screen. The frame rates are higher, but the graphics are nowhere near as good as in d3d with the "eaw.ini" set to 1920x1080. Jelly,
This is my opinion and my personal observation of how EAW D3D compares to EAW Glide, if the code will continue to use DX6 then abandon D3D and spend your limited time supporting the new Glide 3 builds.
Allen- I am not sure what you mean by your comment. The new exes give the user the choice of d3d or Glide 3, and I am not in the business of developing the code for either system as it is not in my area of expertise at all
Fly EAW online at GameRanger: GameRanger SiteFaceBook Pages UAW 160 downloadsEAW ClubMark Twain: I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.I am now of an age at which I no longer need to suffer fools gladly
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#4240103 - 03/15/16 02:48 PM
Re: Glide 3 graphics
[Re: Col. Gibbon]
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 12,497
MrJelly
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Montagnac, L'Herault, France
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I have finished this exercise with a compromise. There is a "140V86" 7-zip at the 140Module download page. Run it in the "140Module" folder and it will put the old and new map versions of V86 exe in the "EAW Versions" folder. The compromise is that it still loads the "s.3dz", but not the "m.3dz". Unless bugs are found I do not intend to do any more work on the 140 exe, and hope that V86 can be the standard version
Fly EAW online at GameRanger: GameRanger SiteFaceBook Pages UAW 160 downloadsEAW ClubMark Twain: I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.I am now of an age at which I no longer need to suffer fools gladly
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#4240117 - 03/15/16 03:19 PM
Re: Glide 3 graphics
[Re: Col. Gibbon]
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,859
Rotton50
3DZ / campaign designer
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3DZ / campaign designer
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,859
Cape Charles, Virginia, USA
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I've been working on a bunch of bi-planes for the Med package so I'm not up to date on the latest execs. I will, in time, but if I may ask, do you see an improvement in performance or load times.
I know you've posted frame rates with this mod but as far as I can tell, not in reference to earlier execs.
Simply put, does removing the M.3dz and _L.3dz do anything other than make it a bit easier for model makers?
Not that I'm complaining, just curious.
Heck, even paranoids have enemies.
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Exodus
by RedOneAlpha. 04/18/24 05:46 PM
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