#4227411 - 02/10/16 01:34 PM
Re: Why aren't more playing online?
[Re: TerribleTwo]
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,114
Chucky
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,114
UK
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Think yourself lucky,as a mouse player I'm even more restricted.I play almost exclusively on the DED normal server.I've never seen it full.
It's a real shame,I'm beginning to enjoy the game a lot,playing the IL-2 and PE-2 only.
EV's are the Devils matchbox.
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#4227417 - 02/10/16 01:43 PM
Re: Why aren't more playing online?
[Re: TerribleTwo]
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,955
Sokol1
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,955
Internet
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I think that more than games, the issue is players. People tends only join in a Server if is almost full. Actually people don't like much play "flight games" unless 30m in QM to blow up targets with unlimited ammo, pointed by colorful labels. Is time intensive and most time end in only in frustration - see the dozens of "gunners snipers", "FLAK laser", "Yak OP", "109 wobbly", "I can't taxi", "I can't see anything 2 KM away", "I can't navigate" *... etc. MP in BoS is not too different from IL-2'2k1 or CloD respecting planes and scenery (maps) limitations. WWII flight game MP = War Thunder. * In BoS is extreme easy do "IFRR" flights.
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#4227518 - 02/10/16 05:03 PM
Re: Why aren't more playing online?
[Re: TerribleTwo]
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,468
PanzerMeyer
Pro-Consul of Florida
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Pro-Consul of Florida
King Crimson - SimHQ's Top Poster
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,468
Miami, FL USA
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Maybe if BOS had a decent multiplayer coop aspect like what the original IL-2 series had?
It's not rocket science.
Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 02/10/16 05:04 PM.
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
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#4227681 - 02/10/16 09:37 PM
Re: Why aren't more playing online?
[Re: TerribleTwo]
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Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Jedi Master
Entil'zha
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Entil'zha
Sierra Hotel
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Space Coast, USA
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No, it just wasn't a priority for the team before, during, or after release.
The Jedi Master
The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
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#4227853 - 02/11/16 01:01 PM
Re: Why aren't more playing online?
[Re: TerribleTwo]
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 465
Mastiff
"just do it"
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"just do it"
Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 465
EL Centro, Cailfornia
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I'm hearing a lot of complaints about spending $100.00 dollars on a game. from a friend "not being able to play because my FPS is not getting above 40 fps which equates to about $2.50 dollars per frame, and is not worth the only 40 fps that I'm getting; so I have abandon the game for DCS which I get 120fps for free."
oh well.
71st Eagle Squadronwww.anon6.com - Blogger on DCS Series 71st Mastiff's you-Tube"any failure you meet is never a defeat; merely a set up for a greater come back" Asus x-99||i7x5930k||ddr4 16gb2400||GTX980Ti-6gb|| ATX1200Corsair||realteck 5.1||Win8.1x64pro|| TrackIr4Pro/ir||CHfghtrstck||siatekpedals| |X52ThrteCntrlr||G15Keyboard/RzrMose|| 32"LCD||2x7"lilliputs,1x9inc
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#4229155 - 02/14/16 09:48 PM
Re: Why aren't more playing online?
[Re: TerribleTwo]
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,259
Leadspitter
Member
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Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,259
NY
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Difficult learning curve for new players most will just play a few times and give up and more important is the the price of BOS $80 + and a 3 plane addon of BOM for $80 is priced way to high. Most people i know will not pay that much for a game which only has 1 populated server.
Its a pretty looking game but is basically rise of flight with new models which are priced way too high i dont see this game being around very long in the future. I been flying dcs which is a lot of fun but also way too pricey but to me it has more of a flight sim feel. I finally got team fusion mod working for CLOD which is alot of fun. Nothing will compare to the content we had in il2 just wish the mod community worked together and made 1 final version. I think this is why the mods killed the game, too many versions and no one plays that anymore on HL. Seems the only large multiplayer wwii flight game is war thunder which has thousands of players. Its fun also and been trying to get many to try out il2 bos but most hate it...
- Good dogfighters return home with ammo, The great ones do not.
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#4229237 - 02/15/16 04:15 AM
Re: Why aren't more playing online?
[Re: TerribleTwo]
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 740
Ace_Pilto
Livestreamer/YouTuber
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Livestreamer/YouTuber
Member
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 740
Sector ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha
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Here's my list of probably causes in no particular order:
Joining a server that is stacked 20-6 in favour of the axis and being base-humped out of the game by people who spend 6-8 hours a day online might be contributing.
The frustrating experience of encountering droves of magical Yaks that defy Newtonian physics.
Trying to taxi only to have ground loops occur at walking speed or getting bogged in the rough.
The recently fixed auto-start sequence reducing the mixture to 0% and stalling your engine. Credit where it's due, they patched this.
Can't see diddly outside 2km unless you tweak gamma in the config.
The very strong possibility that certain players are using radar and aim assist in expert servers.
Theartre of war that and planeset inspires indifference in many big Western markets
Best server is in Russia or wherever with 300+ms ping.
Having to unlock armaments in SP mode to have them online.
Let's pretend I got the BWOC badge to embed here.
Wenn ihr sieg im deine Kampf selbst gegen, wirst stark wie Stahl sein. "The best techniques are passed on by the survivors." - Gaiden Shinji
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#4229394 - 02/15/16 04:51 PM
Re: Why aren't more playing online?
[Re: Ace_Pilto]
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 772
Johnny_Redd
Member
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Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 772
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Joining a server that is stacked 20-6 in favour of the axis and being base-humped out of the game by people who spend 6-8 hours a day online might be contributing.
This. also getting kicked from one team while setting up your aircraft because folk refuse to at least try to balance teams. Then getting the time penalty for changing teams because of those folk. It's frikin annoying and frustrating.
DCS Kickstarter Wags July 2014 "In this July 2014 update, the primary news is in regards to the restructured backer rewards. After a careful review of the older system under RRG, we found it financially unattainable." Wags October 2017 "the investment vs. generated revenue has been excellent for the World War II aircraft. In fact, the P-51D Mustang has twice the cost effectiveness of the A-10C Warthog."
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#4229486 - 02/15/16 07:59 PM
Re: Why aren't more playing online?
[Re: Trooper117]
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 740
Ace_Pilto
Livestreamer/YouTuber
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Livestreamer/YouTuber
Member
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 740
Sector ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha
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If the hyperlobby system was introduced I would never be offline... as it is, I rarely show my face. What is it that is stopping 'this' IL2 from using that system, when the old game embraced it? It's not hyperlobby but it's a start, shows what servers are populated and who is in them when you click on the server. OnlineIl2Forever
Let's pretend I got the BWOC badge to embed here.
Wenn ihr sieg im deine Kampf selbst gegen, wirst stark wie Stahl sein. "The best techniques are passed on by the survivors." - Gaiden Shinji
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#4229512 - 02/15/16 09:11 PM
Re: Why aren't more playing online?
[Re: TerribleTwo]
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,088
SlipBall
disillusioned
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disillusioned
Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,088
East Coast U.S.A.
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I think hyper lobby fell from grace way back when IL-2 was hacked...I never knew all of the details and that was awhile ago now
Post composed with speech to text, it woks grape!
Clod OEM screenshots & videos of Eu release..So I fly the original game because I am a off-liner and the game's AI was broken after the last good patch, game version 1.0.13954 GigaByteBoard...64bit...FX 4300 3.8, G. Skill sniper 1866 32GB, EVGA GTX 660 ti 3gb, Raptor 64mb cache, Planar 120Hz 2ms, CH controls, Tir5
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#4229699 - 02/16/16 12:31 PM
Re: Why aren't more playing online?
[Re: Ace_Pilto]
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,955
Sokol1
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,955
Internet
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It's not hyperlobby but it's a start, shows what servers are populated and who is in them when you click on the server. OnlineIl2ForeverDED servers are not listed in this page... "Bonfire of Vanities"? I think that Hyperlobby will dont make difference for BoS, as don't did for CloD, times was changed. At time (2001) was a happy coincidence that Hyperlobby exist when IL-2 DEMO came out. People don't play this (new) games because don't have interest, or are happy with War Thunder.
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#4229722 - 02/16/16 01:28 PM
Re: Why aren't more playing online?
[Re: TerribleTwo]
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 740
Ace_Pilto
Livestreamer/YouTuber
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Livestreamer/YouTuber
Member
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 740
Sector ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha
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I don't know what the story is with some servers not being listed. WoL is on it though and if you're flying BoS you're flying in WoL or you're on your own a lot of the time.
Yesterday was pretty impressive for a Monday though, around 200 players at one point so word is spreading.
Let's pretend I got the BWOC badge to embed here.
Wenn ihr sieg im deine Kampf selbst gegen, wirst stark wie Stahl sein. "The best techniques are passed on by the survivors." - Gaiden Shinji
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#4233738 - 02/26/16 11:54 AM
Re: Why aren't more playing online?
[Re: TerribleTwo]
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 62
II_JG77_Con
JG77_Con
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JG77_Con
Junior Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 62
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They need to rethink there market strategy . $80.00 way too much for a add-on , Also when released this might split the servers up . So even less people flying on a given server . I noticed the other day on the forums that it has 67,000 people that had signed up on the forums, that a lot of people interested in the game, But Where have these people gone . On the positive side I do enjoy flying this .
Last edited by II_JG77_Con; 02/26/16 11:56 AM.
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#4234154 - 02/27/16 10:40 AM
Re: Why aren't more playing online?
[Re: TerribleTwo]
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 144
Juergen
Member
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Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 144
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It didnt split the servers, when the channel map was released for RoF. 99% of the online crowd will have all maps, and SP guys staying with either BoS or BoM dont have an effect on MP servers.
Same is valid for the pricing. If you fly online with TIR, rudder pedals, good FPS comp etc. , you can buy lots of addons to come near that values, you invested into your hardware. Kids with hundred of games on steam dont fly BoS online.
Last edited by Juergen; 02/27/16 10:45 AM.
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#4236138 - 03/03/16 07:31 PM
Re: Why aren't more playing online?
[Re: Juergen]
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,984
Master
meh
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meh
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,984
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It didnt split the servers, when the channel map was released for RoF. 99% of the online crowd will have all maps, and SP guys staying with either BoS or BoM dont have an effect on MP servers.
Same is valid for the pricing. If you fly online with TIR, rudder pedals, good FPS comp etc. , you can buy lots of addons to come near that values, you invested into your hardware. Kids with hundred of games on steam dont fly BoS online. Wait what? Are you serious? Anytime the channel map comes into rotation the online ROF servers lose about 75% of the players. Just two weeks ago there were 50 people online on the new wings wargrounds server on friday night. The channel map came into rotation and there were 6 people and 5 of them were my squad. Every time the channel map comes up it kills the server. This is after the channel map has been reduced in price and on sale for years. It most certainly DOES split the community/servers. This has been a known issue since forever and it is not just specific to RoF and BoS/BoM. You can look at all the CoD or battlefield games or any game that sells map packs. With every new map pack you release you lose more and more players who dont have those maps. Maps for online games should ALWAYS be free and there should be no content that excludes players. If someone doesnt have a gun or plane or vehicle they should still be able to play the map in some form or fashion else you are by definition splitting the server.
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#4239358 - 03/13/16 12:32 PM
Re: Why aren't more playing online?
[Re: Targ]
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,398
KodiakJac
Member
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Member
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,398
USA
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The biggest problem with flight sims these days is the flight sim community.
There are way to many bitter and angry people poisoning the community for it to grow anymore.
"The biggest problem with [insert product name here] these days is the [insert product name here] community." No matter what value I place in [insert product name here] the statement above does not work in a free market economy. Chrysler nearly went bankrupt shortly after WW2 when the CEO wouldn't let their designers lower the rooflines of their cars as hats fell out of fashion. The CEO was determined that a properly dressed gentleman would always wear a hat while driving a car and he would not buy into this degradation of societal norms by allowing Chrysler to lower their rooflines. True story. One guy can screw up a company. I wonder if he sat and pondered: "The biggest problem with the automobile market these days is the automobile community/customer."
Dogfighting is what you do "after" you drop your bombs and blow something up! Can you say "JABO!"
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#4239454 - 03/13/16 06:28 PM
Re: Why aren't more playing online?
[Re: KodiakJac]
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 772
Johnny_Redd
Member
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Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 772
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The biggest problem with flight sims these days is the flight sim community.
There are way to many bitter and angry people poisoning the community for it to grow anymore.
"The biggest problem with [insert product name here] these days is the [insert product name here] community." No matter what value I place in [insert product name here] the statement above does not work in a free market economy. Chrysler nearly went bankrupt shortly after WW2 when the CEO wouldn't let their designers lower the rooflines of their cars as hats fell out of fashion. The CEO was determined that a properly dressed gentleman would always wear a hat while driving a car and he would not buy into this degradation of societal norms by allowing Chrysler to lower their rooflines. True story. One guy can screw up a company. I wonder if he sat and pondered: "The biggest problem with the automobile market these days is the automobile community/customer." Absolutely. Then there are the brand loyal kool-aid drinkers who don't care what kind of sandwich they get served as long as it comes with their brand on it. A "#%&*$# sandwich" is still a "#%&*$# sandwich" if it has Apple, Samsung, 777 or whoever's brand on it. Folk will scarf it down and tell the rest of the world how delicious it tastes.
DCS Kickstarter Wags July 2014 "In this July 2014 update, the primary news is in regards to the restructured backer rewards. After a careful review of the older system under RRG, we found it financially unattainable." Wags October 2017 "the investment vs. generated revenue has been excellent for the World War II aircraft. In fact, the P-51D Mustang has twice the cost effectiveness of the A-10C Warthog."
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#4239477 - 03/13/16 08:21 PM
Re: Why aren't more playing online?
[Re: Targ]
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,859
Extreme_One
Mission Builder
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Mission Builder
Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,859
Southampton England
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The biggest problem with flight sims these days is the flight sim community.
There are way to many bitter and angry people poisoning the community for it to grow anymore.
You think the community around BOS was toxic when the project was announced, and when the first nuggets of information were being bandied about? My memory is of a community of excited gamers relishing the prospect of the next chapter in the IL-2 line of Sims. Then things started to change. In no particular order, unlocks werw announced, the ability to change graphics options was remove, people were 'advised' to score the game highly on Metacritic or else the project might be scrapped, etc. etc.
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#4239484 - 03/13/16 08:43 PM
Re: Why aren't more playing online?
[Re: Extreme_One]
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 427
TychosElk
Member
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Member
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 427
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You think the community around BOS was toxic when the project was announced, and when the first nuggets of information were being bandied about?
My memory is of a community of excited gamers relishing the prospect of the next chapter in the IL-2 line of Sims.
Then things started to change.
In no particular order, unlocks werw announced, the ability to change graphics options was remove, people were 'advised' to score the game highly on Metacritic or else the project might be scrapped, etc. etc. That isn't the way I remember it. Right from the start, people were accusing 1C and 777 Studios of all sorts of conspiracies relating to the cancellation of Cliffs of Dover.
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#4239509 - 03/13/16 10:06 PM
Re: Why aren't more playing online?
[Re: TychosElk]
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,943
knightgames
Hotshot
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Hotshot
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,943
MA
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You think the community around BOS was toxic when the project was announced, and when the first nuggets of information were being bandied about?
My memory is of a community of excited gamers relishing the prospect of the next chapter in the IL-2 line of Sims.
Then things started to change.
In no particular order, unlocks werw announced, the ability to change graphics options was remove, people were 'advised' to score the game highly on Metacritic or else the project might be scrapped, etc. etc. That isn't the way I remember it. Right from the start, people were accusing 1C and 777 Studios of all sorts of conspiracies relating to the cancellation of Cliffs of Dover. Agreed... there was hostility at the initial announcement but that was mostly bantered on the IL2:CoD website and not the IL2:BoS site. The developers and mods made sure the rancor was at a minimum on the latter's site. I don't blame them, though I do think on occasion their methods were extreme. One incident that stuck with me was the height of pettiness but it's in the past now. Extreme is also right that once the original 'rebellion' was quelled, the forum was optimistic, helpful and willing to give the developers a chance. The misunderstanding of the early release brought some problems but they were quelled and people moved on. The real trouble for THAT forum came with the release of the single player campaign and the unlocks. The problems with the sim community itself as you describe Tychos isn't limited to the naysayers. It includes those forum members who support and protect the product. They have been just as acrimonious as those who expressed disappointment. From MY point of view they seem to get more leeway than those who disagree.
Last edited by knightgames; 03/13/16 10:07 PM.
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#4239515 - 03/13/16 10:22 PM
Re: Why aren't more playing online?
[Re: knightgames]
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 427
TychosElk
Member
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Member
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 427
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You think the community around BOS was toxic when the project was announced, and when the first nuggets of information were being bandied about?
My memory is of a community of excited gamers relishing the prospect of the next chapter in the IL-2 line of Sims.
Then things started to change.
In no particular order, unlocks werw announced, the ability to change graphics options was remove, people were 'advised' to score the game highly on Metacritic or else the project might be scrapped, etc. etc. That isn't the way I remember it. Right from the start, people were accusing 1C and 777 Studios of all sorts of conspiracies relating to the cancellation of Cliffs of Dover. Agreed... there was hostility at the initial announcement but that was mostly bantered on the IL2:CoD website and not the IL2:BoS site. The developers and mods made sure the rancor was at a minimum on the latter's site. I don't blame them, though I do think on occasion their methods were extreme. One incident that stuck with me was the height of pettiness but it's in the past now. Extreme is also right that once the original 'rebellion' was quelled, the forum was optimistic, helpful and willing to give the developers a chance. The misunderstanding of the early release brought some problems but they were quelled and people moved on. The real trouble for THAT forum came with the release of the single player campaign and the unlocks. The problems with the sim community itself as you describe Tychos isn't limited to the naysayers. It includes those forum members who support and protect the product. They have been just as acrimonious as those who expressed disappointment. From MY point of view they seem to get more leeway than those who disagree. It hardly seems surprising that a commercial concern should give 'more leeway' on their own website to people supporting their products. And compared to some games developers' websites I could name, the BoS one has been relatively open.
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#4239524 - 03/13/16 10:45 PM
Re: Why aren't more playing online?
[Re: TerribleTwo]
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 390
Targ
Member
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Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 390
Alaska
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People should spend less time reading the forums and more time flying in my opinion. To much rhetoric and gnashing of the teeth for my taste. There seem to be to many old farts who get upset when the phone rings after 9PM, or someone knocks on the front door unexpected if you know what I mean BoS I a mighty fine flight sim and the only thing missing in my opinion at this point is easy coop mode for hosting. With a little effort coop can be done, but effort and stuff.
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#4239610 - 03/14/16 06:29 AM
Re: Why aren't more playing online?
[Re: Targ]
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,614
theOden
Member
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Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,614
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.. BoS I a mighty fine flight sim and the only thing missing in my opinion at this point is easy coop mode for hosting. .. Is it the fast travel to the Action Point or the big flashing score count in the end you like best?
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#4239703 - 03/14/16 02:14 PM
Re: Why aren't more playing online?
[Re: Targ]
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Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Jedi Master
Entil'zha
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Entil'zha
Sierra Hotel
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Space Coast, USA
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People should spend less time reading the forums and more time flying in my opinion. To much rhetoric and gnashing of the teeth for my taste. There seem to be to many old farts who get upset when the phone rings after 9PM, or someone knocks on the front door unexpected if you know what I mean BoS I a mighty fine flight sim and the only thing missing in my opinion at this point is easy coop mode for hosting. With a little effort coop can be done, but effort and stuff. I largely agree. A lot of the problem is perception as opposed to reality, but the devs have done a substandard job of managing those perceptions with some really weird design decisions and foot-in-mouth comments. Putting aside their forums and PR and "should've/could've" decisions and evaluating the program alone, BoS isn't a million miles from where it needs to be, it's not too far out, but it's still missing the mark. Pat's DCG is helping, but it's still not quite there for SP. The fact that Pat can do it while the devs refused to is incomprehensible to me. Instead of making coop MP that worked like the old Il-2, CFS, EAW, DCS, LOMAC, and pretty much every other sim released, they went bizarro world. I still play many flight sims that allow "listen" servers instead of dedicated ones. It's the go-to solution for a small group of friends (less than 5) to make their own setup fast and easy and get flying. This thing with requesting an account and running another program is a completely unnecessary additional layer of difficulty that serves no purpose. Instead of making a campaign that sucked the player in, they made it appeal to ADD players, and let's face it if you Venn diagram ADD gamers and flight sim fans the overlap is VERY small. I don't think it's impossible to fix what's wrong. It's just impossible to convince them to fix it because they don't think it's wrong. The Jedi Master
The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
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#4239716 - 03/14/16 02:44 PM
Re: Why aren't more playing online?
[Re: TerribleTwo]
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,468
PanzerMeyer
Pro-Consul of Florida
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Pro-Consul of Florida
King Crimson - SimHQ's Top Poster
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,468
Miami, FL USA
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+1 Jedi Master
A lot of the shortcomings with BoS are purely the result of design/business reasons and not because of technical limitations.
The exclusion of peer to peer servers for coop play was the result of the publisher/developer wanting to maintain full control over how the players use the game online.
Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 03/14/16 02:46 PM.
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
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#4239720 - 03/14/16 02:55 PM
Re: Why aren't more playing online?
[Re: PanzerMeyer]
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,088
SlipBall
disillusioned
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disillusioned
Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,088
East Coast U.S.A.
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+1 Jedi Master
A lot of the shortcomings with BoS are purely the result of design/business reasons and not because of technical limitations.
The exclusion of peer to peer servers for coop play was the result of the publisher/developer wanting to maintain full control over how the players use the game online. yep, that's the legacy of the IL-2 hack...protection is the name of the game now for most developers as well
Post composed with speech to text, it woks grape!
Clod OEM screenshots & videos of Eu release..So I fly the original game because I am a off-liner and the game's AI was broken after the last good patch, game version 1.0.13954 GigaByteBoard...64bit...FX 4300 3.8, G. Skill sniper 1866 32GB, EVGA GTX 660 ti 3gb, Raptor 64mb cache, Planar 120Hz 2ms, CH controls, Tir5
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#4239724 - 03/14/16 03:06 PM
Re: Why aren't more playing online?
[Re: TychosElk]
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 560
lokitexas
Member
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Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 560
San Antonio, TX.
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It hardly seems surprising that a commercial concern should give 'more leeway' on their own website to people supporting their products. And compared to some games developers' websites I could name, the BoS one has been relatively open.
LOL. You can't be serious? Now if you mean relatively open to bash and ban people who don't worship the devs and kiss backside in every post...then I agree. BOS was based on hope of a return of the "legend" according to their marketing. It's not. It turned into a war thunder wannabe with a stupid sticker price and a horrible system for online and even worse for SP. Not sure if you can tell but 777 is killing the genre as much as the old timers if not more. Until a Western dev makes decide to make a CFS I think the genre is dying by the hand of the current devs.
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#4243013 - 03/24/16 06:21 PM
Re: Why aren't more playing online?
[Re: lokitexas]
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 356
Dakpilot
Member
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Member
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 356
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It hardly seems surprising that a commercial concern should give 'more leeway' on their own website to people supporting their products. And compared to some games developers' websites I could name, the BoS one has been relatively open.
LOL. You can't be serious? Now if you mean relatively open to bash and ban people who don't worship the devs and kiss backside in every post...then I agree. BOS was based on hope of a return of the "legend" according to their marketing. It's not. It turned into a war thunder wannabe with a stupid sticker price and a horrible system for online and even worse for SP. Not sure if you can tell but 777 is killing the genre as much as the old timers if not more. Until a Western dev makes decide to make a CFS I think the genre is dying by the hand of the current devs. This is very true, Western Dev's by their lack of ANYTHING must therefore be keeping the genre alive... Sim light = Warthunder Sim medium = BoS Sim serious = DCS all hail the Western Devs keeping the genre alive, while Eastern European Dev's kill it...LOL Cheers Dakpilot
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#4243179 - 03/25/16 09:45 AM
Re: Why aren't more playing online?
[Re: Dakpilot]
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,744
HeinKill
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,744
Cloud based
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all hail the Western Devs keeping the genre alive, while Eastern European Dev's kill it...LOL Cheers Dakpilot It's a great point that the devs keeping sim genre alive are all in the East. May their gods bless them I say! Why is that I wonder? Are development costs in the west too high to make niche game development viable? H
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#4243264 - 03/25/16 03:40 PM
Re: Why aren't more playing online?
[Re: Dakpilot]
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 560
lokitexas
Member
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Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 560
San Antonio, TX.
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It hardly seems surprising that a commercial concern should give 'more leeway' on their own website to people supporting their products. And compared to some games developers' websites I could name, the BoS one has been relatively open.
LOL. You can't be serious? Now if you mean relatively open to bash and ban people who don't worship the devs and kiss backside in every post...then I agree. BOS was based on hope of a return of the "legend" according to their marketing. It's not. It turned into a war thunder wannabe with a stupid sticker price and a horrible system for online and even worse for SP. Not sure if you can tell but 777 is killing the genre as much as the old timers if not more. Until a Western dev makes decide to make a CFS I think the genre is dying by the hand of the current devs. This is very true, Western Dev's by their lack of ANYTHING must therefore be keeping the genre alive... Sim light = Warthunder Sim medium = BoS Sim serious = DCS all hail the Western Devs keeping the genre alive, while Eastern European Dev's kill it...LOL Cheers Dakpilot All hail lack of comprehension. As I stated...the current devs have a knack for mostly doing things the way they want, and not always the way their audience wants. It seems to be the norm for all 3 developers of the games you listed. Is a coincidence they are all in the same geographic location? The only ones making CFS's still? I dont know, but I would LOVE to see a developer from another area attempt it. Until that happens CFS fans are stuck with the stubborn development teams. And I do mean stuck. Your choices are slim when it comes to this genre. It is slowly fading out. I have not seen a revival like I have in other genres. Iso RPG's are back. Racing sims are picking up again. Space sims are booming again. Then again if the only teams playing are 3rd and 4th stringers....expect a low scoring game, and a slim audience.
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#4243465 - 03/26/16 01:10 PM
Re: Why aren't more playing online?
[Re: TerribleTwo]
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 797
leaf_on_the_wind
Member
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Member
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 797
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Most likely reason for not many players is:
1. Not a good game 2. Not a fun game to play
Ferengi Rule of acquisition #1 Once you have their money ... never give it back.
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#4253388 - 04/27/16 09:02 AM
Re: Why aren't more playing online?
[Re: TerribleTwo]
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,228
Trooper117
Hotshot
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Hotshot
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,228
UK
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Don't be pathetic... it's nothing to do with grumpy old men, grow up. It's simply that the flight sim market has changed... why do you think the dev's tried to drag the War Thunder crowd over to BoS/BoM?
It's because each night there are thousands of players flying with that game. It's easy access, not difficult to learn and play, etc, etc... The old days have gone... we will never have the same community we had with the old IL2.
The only way we might improve numbers is to employ a 'Hyperlobby' type system with dedicated co-ops... it's been asked for since the game came out, yet totally ignored. Why is it constantly asked for? Because online players 'know' what they want, they know what works, yet the dev's don't seem to want to migrate in that direction... Fair play to them, it's their game after all.
And don't get me wrong... I believe the dev's have made huge strides in making improvements to the game over the last 12 months. But to blame grumpy old men for the games short comings, and it does have some, is a totally immature statement.
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#4253533 - 04/27/16 05:17 PM
Re: Why aren't more playing online?
[Re: TerribleTwo]
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,188
Gunnyhighway
Move, Strike, Protect
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Move, Strike, Protect
Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,188
San Diego, CA
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You seem to be discovering what the Tactical First shooter's have been struggling with for years. "X-Box" and the likes killed the sim market, and are capturing the new comers!...The learning curve has no equal, and this is entertainment!... Most gamers today want entertainment, simulating reality is tedious, or is only fun when visiting Air/Space museums and riding their simulators while packing 1.5 Gs. Then if you want the real thing, you can sign up for flight lessons at the local airfield, in between which you will be blasting away on your x-box. Unfortunately, simers are a dying breed with no offsprings!!!
Fluctuat Nec Mergitur
This is not the bars that keep the Tiger in the cage, this is the space between the bars.
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#4253692 - 04/27/16 10:55 PM
Re: Why aren't more playing online?
[Re: TerribleTwo]
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,914
JagerNeun
Member
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Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,914
Shenandoah Valley, Virginia
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Come join us....This is a hyperlobby coop of sorts, without the flexibility, but same concept. We are going to sponsor this style of campaign for a couple of months and see how it progresses. Full Real settings, mission objectives, with some AI sprinkled out there as well. Mini Campaign Coop For our Teamspeak just navigate to our website and click on our comms....
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#4253989 - 04/28/16 06:11 PM
Re: Why aren't more playing online?
[Re: TerribleTwo]
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Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Jedi Master
Entil'zha
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Entil'zha
Sierra Hotel
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Space Coast, USA
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As the ability for PCs to model more and more increased, the customers demanded more and more to be modeled. Meanwhile, development costs increased universally and complexity for creating even a lite sim went up. Devs picked and chose their focus, and where did they go to? Visuals (because videos/screenshots sell) and the physical modeling of the planes (because claims of "most realistic ever!" sell).
Look at all the areas that had to be neglected to make those two work: Robust MP (including anti-cheat, coop for campaigns and single missions, and so on) AI that felt realistic (not hard, because hard =! realistic, and just because you can get 10 kills in one mission doesn't make it unrealistic, especially if unlike a real pilot you were shot down and "killed" 1000 times since you started simming to the point where you're good enough to wipe out the AI every time--your skills are what's unrealistic, it's not stupid AI) Comprehensive SP options including scripted and dynamic campaigns and a large variety of single missions and a random mission generator for all those people that either don't have the time, circumstances, or desire to fly online In-game comms with wingmen and ATC that seems even halfway real, not like a scripted line that doesn't work at that time A UI that added to the immersion and didn't detract from it, to make you feel like you were a pilot and not using a sim--I think CFS3 had the last one like that. I think Flanker had the first one that totally ignored it.
In an attempt to make sims more real, they've been forced to make them shallower, and they've seen a concurrent loss in customers as the "fun" has been reduced to "learn the planes." If that's not what appeals to you, there's little left in modern sims for you.
The Jedi Master
The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
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#4254569 - 04/30/16 04:05 PM
Re: Why aren't more playing online?
[Re: Jedi Master]
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,562
Airdrop01
Chief Pheasant Controller
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Chief Pheasant Controller
Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,562
Kansas, USA
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As the ability for PCs to model more and more increased, the customers demanded more and more to be modeled. Meanwhile, development costs increased universally and complexity for creating even a lite sim went up. Devs picked and chose their focus, and where did they go to? Visuals (because videos/screenshots sell) and the physical modeling of the planes (because claims of "most realistic ever!" sell).
Look at all the areas that had to be neglected to make those two work: Robust MP (including anti-cheat, coop for campaigns and single missions, and so on) AI that felt realistic (not hard, because hard =! realistic, and just because you can get 10 kills in one mission doesn't make it unrealistic, especially if unlike a real pilot you were shot down and "killed" 1000 times since you started simming to the point where you're good enough to wipe out the AI every time--your skills are what's unrealistic, it's not stupid AI) Comprehensive SP options including scripted and dynamic campaigns and a large variety of single missions and a random mission generator for all those people that either don't have the time, circumstances, or desire to fly online In-game comms with wingmen and ATC that seems even halfway real, not like a scripted line that doesn't work at that time A UI that added to the immersion and didn't detract from it, to make you feel like you were a pilot and not using a sim--I think CFS3 had the last one like that. I think Flanker had the first one that totally ignored it.
In an attempt to make sims more real, they've been forced to make them shallower, and they've seen a concurrent loss in customers as the "fun" has been reduced to "learn the planes." If that's not what appeals to you, there's little left in modern sims for you.
The Jedi Master Couldn't have said it better.
"For I know the plans that I have for you," declares the Lord, "plans for welfare and not for calamity to give you a future and a hope." Jeremiah 29:11
Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. Matthew 5:11
Indeed we call blessed those who have persevered. You have heard of the perseverance of Job, and you have seen the purpose of the Lord, because “the Lord is compassionate and merciful. James 5:11
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#4255119 - 05/02/16 03:34 PM
Re: Why aren't more playing online?
[Re: TerribleTwo]
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Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Jedi Master
Entil'zha
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Entil'zha
Sierra Hotel
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Space Coast, USA
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I will clarify that by "modern sims" I don't mean "1980s-era jets/helos and later", I mean sims released post 2008 or so. CloD, DCS World, Il-2: BoS, ROF...
Now all these sims have been developed in the East and not in the West, so I don't know if there's a cultural bias as well involved here, where their interests/focus just naturally differ from what Western devs were at and therefore led to a different result. The original Il-2 and ROF to their credit did implement an attempt at bridging some of that gap via campaigns/careers that didn't originally ship. Each successive sim, though, has made it seem like we're being irrational in asking to have the same features the older sims had.
If we acknowledge the funding/development difficulties in giving us a remade older sim in DX12 with EDGE and multiple airplanes (in other words, EAW or BMS at a professional commercial level) that prevents us from getting that, maybe we can figure out where we need to start at and then evolve to the ultimate sim later. BMS and EECH both proved you can take a sim with minor realism and patch it in later on top of the fun elements. As long as the hooks for it exist, you can add a better FM or DM or weapons or whatever later. It seems you can't make a procedures trainer and add fun later.
I think Back to Baghdad had proved that 20 years ago, but no one remembered that lesson.
The Jedi Master
The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
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#4288531 - 08/19/16 12:07 AM
Re: Why aren't more playing online?
[Re: Jedi Master]
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,257
777 Studios - Jason
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,257
Southern California or Moscow
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I will clarify that by "modern sims" I don't mean "1980s-era jets/helos and later", I mean sims released post 2008 or so. CloD, DCS World, Il-2: BoS, ROF...
Now all these sims have been developed in the East and not in the West, so I don't know if there's a cultural bias as well involved here, where their interests/focus just naturally differ from what Western devs were at and therefore led to a different result. The original Il-2 and ROF to their credit did implement an attempt at bridging some of that gap via campaigns/careers that didn't originally ship. Each successive sim, though, has made it seem like we're being irrational in asking to have the same features the older sims had.
If we acknowledge the funding/development difficulties in giving us a remade older sim in DX12 with EDGE and multiple airplanes (in other words, EAW or BMS at a professional commercial level) that prevents us from getting that, maybe we can figure out where we need to start at and then evolve to the ultimate sim later. BMS and EECH both proved you can take a sim with minor realism and patch it in later on top of the fun elements. As long as the hooks for it exist, you can add a better FM or DM or weapons or whatever later. It seems you can't make a procedures trainer and add fun later.
I think Back to Baghdad had proved that 20 years ago, but no one remembered that lesson.
The Jedi Master Western investors and publishers simply see no money in it outside of the civvy sims and they would be largely correct. The Eastern teams each have different approaches to the genre and they have found either a niche to make money or a niche to survive because they love the subject matter. There is some national pride that goes into it too, but the end goal is to always make money or a living. There clearly are some talented people in the West who can do sims. Just look at BMS, Team Fusion etc. But there is generally no funding available to go pro. Building a sim from complete scratch is really hard work too this is why they are rare. Jason
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#4320331 - 12/16/16 11:06 AM
Re: Why aren't more playing online?
[Re: TerribleTwo]
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 797
leaf_on_the_wind
Member
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Member
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 797
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My best guess as to why more are not playing online most likely because they do not enjoy the game
Ferengi Rule of acquisition #1 Once you have their money ... never give it back.
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#4320404 - 12/16/16 03:12 PM
Re: Why aren't more playing online?
[Re: TerribleTwo]
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,503
Pooch
Hotshot
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Hotshot
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,503
Orlando, FL
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For online wargaming people seem to be gravitating towards the free games such as War Thunder, World of Warships...etc. Hell, I'm going to have to admit that I'm one of them. What they do, they do well. They are fun and trouble free. You don't worry about having the latest patch, looking for the new mod that improves the clouds, grabbing the new update that fixes the broken FM's....etc., etc.... You jump in and play the game. I recently decided to go back to CLod. Used to enjoy it. I installed it, but then had to get the Fusion patch. I had a hell of a time downloading and it has to be installed in sections. So I get part of it in and find that I have bad download. I remove it, try again but it won't work and I gave up. I uninstalled CLod. I just don't have the patience I used to have for doing that kind of thing anymore. Not saying that's the major reason for the drop in online players. But I'm sure it contributes to it.
"From our orbital vantage point, we observe an earth without borders, full of peace, beauty and magnificence, and we pray that humanity as a whole can imagine a borderless world as we see it, and strive to live as one in peace." Astronaut William C. McCool RIP, January 29, 2003 - Space Shuttle Columbia
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#4328721 - 01/15/17 05:13 PM
Re: Why aren't more playing online?
[Re: Targ]
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,077
Nodak01
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,077
coyote country
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The biggest problem with flight sims these days is the flight sim community.
There are way to many bitter and angry people poisoning the community for it to grow anymore.
A great game will sell itself despite, the biggest problem with this game is there's plenty of great competition still out there, people have other options. Why would anyone in their right mind want to fly the P-40 in this sim when there's the vanilla Il-2's. Not even the AI can fly that turd in this sim.
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#4347389 - 03/28/17 05:09 AM
Re: Why aren't more playing online?
[Re: DrZebra]
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 26,564
wheelsup_cavu
Lifer
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Lifer
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 26,564
Corona, California
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The real question is why aren´t more able to play different sides, online.. LW dwarfs everthing! [video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CbwBxkVoDY[/video] Without a rudder, ailerons, or elevators that Ju-88 should have kept on going down. Wheels
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