No, it just wasn't a priority for the team before, during, or after release.



The Jedi Master

Joining a server that is stacked 20-6 in favour of the axis and being base-humped out of the game by people who spend 6-8 hours a day online might be contributing.

If the hyperlobby system was introduced I would never be offline... as it is, I rarely show my face.
What is it that is stopping 'this' IL2 from using that system, when the old game embraced it?

It's not hyperlobby but it's a start, shows what servers are populated and who is in them when you click on the server.

OnlineIl2Forever

That's not my shooting Ami7b5......it's Winterz...nice pursuit angles and shooting in that video...for sure. Something I'd like to master as well..

UF_Winterz's Video...BOS-Shots and Maneuvers

It didn�t split the servers, when the channel map was released for RoF. 99% of the online crowd will have all maps, and SP guys staying with either BoS or BoM don�t have an effect on MP servers.

Same is valid for the pricing. If you fly online with TIR, rudder pedals, good FPS comp etc. , you can buy lots of addons to come near that values, you invested into your hardware. Kids with hundred of games on steam don�t fly BoS online.

The biggest problem with flight sims these days is the flight sim community.

There are way to many bitter and angry people poisoning the community for it to grow anymore.

"The biggest problem with [insert product name here] these days is the [insert product name here] community."

No matter what value I place in [insert product name here] the statement above does not work in a free market economy.

Chrysler nearly went bankrupt shortly after WW2 when the CEO wouldn't let their designers lower the rooflines of their cars as hats fell out of fashion. The CEO was determined that a properly dressed gentleman would always wear a hat while driving a car and he would not buy into this degradation of societal norms by allowing Chrysler to lower their rooflines. True story. One guy can screw up a company.

I wonder if he sat and pondered: "The biggest problem with the automobile market these days is the automobile community/customer."

The biggest problem with flight sims these days is the flight sim community.

There are way to many bitter and angry people poisoning the community for it to grow anymore.

You think the community around BOS was toxic when the project was announced, and when the first nuggets of information were being bandied about?

My memory is of a community of excited gamers relishing the prospect of the next chapter in the IL-2 line of Sims.

Then things started to change.

In no particular order, unlocks werw announced, the ability to change graphics options was remove, people were 'advised' to score the game highly on Metacritic or else the project might be scrapped, etc. etc.

That isn't the way I remember it. Right from the start, people were accusing 1C and 777 Studios of all sorts of conspiracies relating to the cancellation of Cliffs of Dover.

Agreed... there was hostility at the initial announcement but that was mostly bantered on the IL2:CoD website and not the IL2:BoS site. The developers and mods made sure the rancor was at a minimum on the latter's site. I don't blame them, though I do think on occasion their methods were extreme. One incident that stuck with me was the height of pettiness but it's in the past now.

Extreme is also right that once the original 'rebellion' was quelled, the forum was optimistic, helpful and willing to give the developers a chance. The misunderstanding of the early release brought some problems but they were quelled and people moved on. The real trouble for THAT forum came with the release of the single player campaign and the unlocks.

The problems with the sim community itself as you describe Tychos isn't limited to the naysayers. It includes those forum members who support and protect the product. They have been just as acrimonious as those who expressed disappointment. From MY point of view they seem to get more leeway than those who disagree.

.. BoS I a mighty fine flight sim and the only thing missing in my opinion at this point is easy coop mode for hosting.
..

People should spend less time reading the forums and more time flying in my opinion.

To much rhetoric and gnashing of the teeth for my taste.

There seem to be to many old farts who get upset when the phone rings after 9PM, or someone knocks on the front door unexpected if you know what I mean

BoS I a mighty fine flight sim and the only thing missing in my opinion at this point is easy coop mode for hosting.

With a little effort coop can be done, but effort and stuff.

+1 Jedi Master


A lot of the shortcomings with BoS are purely the result of design/business reasons and not because of technical limitations.

The exclusion of peer to peer servers for coop play was the result of the publisher/developer wanting to maintain full control over how the players use the game online.

It hardly seems surprising that a commercial concern should give 'more leeway' on their own website to people supporting their products. And compared to some games developers' websites I could name, the BoS one has been relatively open.

LOL. You can't be serious?

Now if you mean relatively open to bash and ban people who don't worship the devs and kiss backside in every post...then I agree.

BOS was based on hope of a return of the "legend" according to their marketing. It's not. It turned into a war thunder wannabe with a stupid sticker price and a horrible system for online and even worse for SP.

Not sure if you can tell but 777 is killing the genre as much as the old timers if not more.

Until a Western dev makes decide to make a CFS I think the genre is dying by the hand of the current devs.

all hail the Western Devs keeping the genre alive, while Eastern European Dev's kill it...LOL

Cheers Dakpilot

This is very true, Western Dev's by their lack of ANYTHING must therefore be keeping the genre alive...

Sim light = Warthunder

Sim medium = BoS

Sim serious = DCS

all hail the Western Devs keeping the genre alive, while Eastern European Dev's kill it...LOL

Cheers Dakpilot

As the ability for PCs to model more and more increased, the customers demanded more and more to be modeled. Meanwhile, development costs increased universally and complexity for creating even a lite sim went up.
Devs picked and chose their focus, and where did they go to? Visuals (because videos/screenshots sell) and the physical modeling of the planes (because claims of "most realistic ever!" sell).

Look at all the areas that had to be neglected to make those two work:
Robust MP (including anti-cheat, coop for campaigns and single missions, and so on)
AI that felt realistic (not hard, because hard =! realistic, and just because you can get 10 kills in one mission doesn't make it unrealistic, especially if unlike a real pilot you were shot down and "killed" 1000 times since you started simming to the point where you're good enough to wipe out the AI every time--your skills are what's unrealistic, it's not stupid AI)
Comprehensive SP options including scripted and dynamic campaigns and a large variety of single missions and a random mission generator for all those people that either don't have the time, circumstances, or desire to fly online
In-game comms with wingmen and ATC that seems even halfway real, not like a scripted line that doesn't work at that time
A UI that added to the immersion and didn't detract from it, to make you feel like you were a pilot and not using a sim--I think CFS3 had the last one like that. I think Flanker had the first one that totally ignored it.


In an attempt to make sims more real, they've been forced to make them shallower, and they've seen a concurrent loss in customers as the "fun" has been reduced to "learn the planes." If that's not what appeals to you, there's little left in modern sims for you.



The Jedi Master

I will clarify that by "modern sims" I don't mean "1980s-era jets/helos and later", I mean sims released post 2008 or so.
CloD, DCS World, Il-2: BoS, ROF...

Now all these sims have been developed in the East and not in the West, so I don't know if there's a cultural bias as well involved here, where their interests/focus just naturally differ from what Western devs were at and therefore led to a different result.
The original Il-2 and ROF to their credit did implement an attempt at bridging some of that gap via campaigns/careers that didn't originally ship. Each successive sim, though, has made it seem like we're being irrational in asking to have the same features the older sims had.

If we acknowledge the funding/development difficulties in giving us a remade older sim in DX12 with EDGE and multiple airplanes (in other words, EAW or BMS at a professional commercial level) that prevents us from getting that, maybe we can figure out where we need to start at and then evolve to the ultimate sim later. BMS and EECH both proved you can take a sim with minor realism and patch it in later on top of the fun elements. As long as the hooks for it exist, you can add a better FM or DM or weapons or whatever later. It seems you can't make a procedures trainer and add fun later.

I think Back to Baghdad had proved that 20 years ago, but no one remembered that lesson.




The Jedi Master

The biggest problem with flight sims these days is the flight sim community.

There are way to many bitter and angry people poisoning the community for it to grow anymore.

The real question is why aren´t more able to play different sides, online.. LW dwarfs everthing!