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#4229888 - 02/16/16 07:01 PM Re: Why aren't more playing online? ***** [Re: TerribleTwo]  
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Ami7b5 Offline
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GJ J9 ;)))


If you're close, get closer.
#4229906 - 02/16/16 07:23 PM Re: Why aren't more playing online? [Re: TerribleTwo]  
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JagerNeun Offline
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That's not my shooting Ami7b5......it's Winterz...nice pursuit angles and shooting in that video...for sure. Something I'd like to master as well..

UF_Winterz's Video...BOS-Shots and Maneuvers

#4233262 - 02/25/16 05:18 AM Re: Why aren't more playing online? [Re: JagerNeun]  
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wheelsup_cavu Offline
Lifer
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Originally Posted By: JagerNeun
That's not my shooting Ami7b5......it's Winterz...nice pursuit angles and shooting in that video...for sure. Something I'd like to master as well..

UF_Winterz's Video...BOS-Shots and Maneuvers

Very nice. smile


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#4233738 - 02/26/16 11:54 AM Re: Why aren't more playing online? [Re: TerribleTwo]  
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II_JG77_Con Offline
JG77_Con
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JG77_Con
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They need to rethink there market strategy .
$80.00 way too much for a add-on , Also when released this might split the servers up .
So even less people flying on a given server .
I noticed the other day on the forums that it has 67,000 people that had signed up on the forums, that a lot of people interested in the game, But Where have these people gone .
On the positive side I do enjoy flying this .

Last edited by II_JG77_Con; 02/26/16 11:56 AM.
#4234154 - 02/27/16 10:40 AM Re: Why aren't more playing online? [Re: TerribleTwo]  
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Juergen Offline
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It didnt split the servers, when the channel map was released for RoF. 99% of the online crowd will have all maps, and SP guys staying with either BoS or BoM dont have an effect on MP servers.

Same is valid for the pricing. If you fly online with TIR, rudder pedals, good FPS comp etc. , you can buy lots of addons to come near that values, you invested into your hardware. Kids with hundred of games on steam dont fly BoS online.

Last edited by Juergen; 02/27/16 10:45 AM.
#4236138 - 03/03/16 07:31 PM Re: Why aren't more playing online? [Re: Juergen]  
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Master Offline
meh
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meh
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Originally Posted By: Juergen
It didnt split the servers, when the channel map was released for RoF. 99% of the online crowd will have all maps, and SP guys staying with either BoS or BoM dont have an effect on MP servers.

Same is valid for the pricing. If you fly online with TIR, rudder pedals, good FPS comp etc. , you can buy lots of addons to come near that values, you invested into your hardware. Kids with hundred of games on steam dont fly BoS online.


Wait what?

Are you serious? Anytime the channel map comes into rotation the online ROF servers lose about 75% of the players. Just two weeks ago there were 50 people online on the new wings wargrounds server on friday night. The channel map came into rotation and there were 6 people and 5 of them were my squad.

Every time the channel map comes up it kills the server. This is after the channel map has been reduced in price and on sale for years. It most certainly DOES split the community/servers.

This has been a known issue since forever and it is not just specific to RoF and BoS/BoM. You can look at all the CoD or battlefield games or any game that sells map packs. With every new map pack you release you lose more and more players who dont have those maps. Maps for online games should ALWAYS be free and there should be no content that excludes players. If someone doesnt have a gun or plane or vehicle they should still be able to play the map in some form or fashion else you are by definition splitting the server.

#4238873 - 03/11/16 03:52 PM Re: Why aren't more playing online? [Re: TerribleTwo]  
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,570
Mr_Blastman Online content
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Experience bars--I never bought this game because of them. When I heard they were doing the unlock bs I decided I wasn't going to purchase it.

#4238902 - 03/11/16 04:55 PM Re: Why aren't more playing online? [Re: TerribleTwo]  
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Lipfert Offline
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Lipfert  Offline
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Ayr, Ontario
Kameraden,

The developers had huge support at the start, loyal community and engaged customers willing to put money forward. A number of really poor design choices (chasing the wrong customer base), followed by possibly the worst Customer management possible.

End result, very marginal numbers online. They only have themselves to blame, as it continues to this day.

S!


JG1 Lipfert - Jagdgeschwader 1 "Fritz Schmenkel" "Oesau" "Richthofen"
#4239251 - 03/13/16 12:12 AM Re: Why aren't more playing online? [Re: TerribleTwo]  
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Posts: 390
Targ Offline
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Targ  Offline
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Posts: 390
Alaska
The biggest problem with flight sims these days is the flight sim community.

There are way to many bitter and angry people poisoning the community for it to grow anymore.

#4239358 - 03/13/16 12:32 PM Re: Why aren't more playing online? [Re: Targ]  
Joined: Dec 2013
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KodiakJac Offline
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KodiakJac  Offline
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USA
Originally Posted By: Targ
The biggest problem with flight sims these days is the flight sim community.

There are way to many bitter and angry people poisoning the community for it to grow anymore.


"The biggest problem with [insert product name here] these days is the [insert product name here] community."

No matter what value I place in [insert product name here] the statement above does not work in a free market economy.

Chrysler nearly went bankrupt shortly after WW2 when the CEO wouldn't let their designers lower the rooflines of their cars as hats fell out of fashion. The CEO was determined that a properly dressed gentleman would always wear a hat while driving a car and he would not buy into this degradation of societal norms by allowing Chrysler to lower their rooflines. True story. One guy can screw up a company.

I wonder if he sat and pondered: "The biggest problem with the automobile market these days is the automobile community/customer."


Dogfighting is what you do "after" you drop your bombs and blow something up!
Can you say "JABO!" thumbsup
#4239454 - 03/13/16 06:28 PM Re: Why aren't more playing online? [Re: KodiakJac]  
Joined: Sep 2010
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Johnny_Redd Offline
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Posts: 772
Originally Posted By: Bucksnort
Originally Posted By: Targ
The biggest problem with flight sims these days is the flight sim community.

There are way to many bitter and angry people poisoning the community for it to grow anymore.


"The biggest problem with [insert product name here] these days is the [insert product name here] community."

No matter what value I place in [insert product name here] the statement above does not work in a free market economy.

Chrysler nearly went bankrupt shortly after WW2 when the CEO wouldn't let their designers lower the rooflines of their cars as hats fell out of fashion. The CEO was determined that a properly dressed gentleman would always wear a hat while driving a car and he would not buy into this degradation of societal norms by allowing Chrysler to lower their rooflines. True story. One guy can screw up a company.

I wonder if he sat and pondered: "The biggest problem with the automobile market these days is the automobile community/customer."

Absolutely. Then there are the brand loyal kool-aid drinkers who don't care what kind of sandwich they get served as long as it comes with their brand on it. A "#%&*$# sandwich" is still a "#%&*$# sandwich" if it has Apple, Samsung, 777 or whoever's brand on it. Folk will scarf it down and tell the rest of the world how delicious it tastes.


DCS Kickstarter
Wags July 2014 "In this July 2014 update, the primary news is in regards to the restructured backer rewards. After a careful review of the older system under RRG, we found it financially unattainable."
Wags October 2017 "the investment vs. generated revenue has been excellent for the World War II aircraft. In fact, the P-51D Mustang has twice the cost effectiveness of the A-10C Warthog."
#4239477 - 03/13/16 08:21 PM Re: Why aren't more playing online? [Re: Targ]  
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Extreme_One Offline
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Southampton England
Originally Posted By: Targ
The biggest problem with flight sims these days is the flight sim community.

There are way to many bitter and angry people poisoning the community for it to grow anymore.



You think the community around BOS was toxic when the project was announced, and when the first nuggets of information were being bandied about?

My memory is of a community of excited gamers relishing the prospect of the next chapter in the IL-2 line of Sims.

Then things started to change.

In no particular order, unlocks werw announced, the ability to change graphics options was remove, people were 'advised' to score the game highly on Metacritic or else the project might be scrapped, etc. etc.

#4239484 - 03/13/16 08:43 PM Re: Why aren't more playing online? [Re: Extreme_One]  
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 427
TychosElk Offline
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TychosElk  Offline
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Posts: 427
Originally Posted By: Extreme_One
You think the community around BOS was toxic when the project was announced, and when the first nuggets of information were being bandied about?

My memory is of a community of excited gamers relishing the prospect of the next chapter in the IL-2 line of Sims.

Then things started to change.

In no particular order, unlocks werw announced, the ability to change graphics options was remove, people were 'advised' to score the game highly on Metacritic or else the project might be scrapped, etc. etc.


That isn't the way I remember it. Right from the start, people were accusing 1C and 777 Studios of all sorts of conspiracies relating to the cancellation of Cliffs of Dover.

#4239509 - 03/13/16 10:06 PM Re: Why aren't more playing online? [Re: TychosElk]  
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,943
knightgames Offline
Hotshot
knightgames  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,943
MA
Originally Posted By: TychosElk
Originally Posted By: Extreme_One
You think the community around BOS was toxic when the project was announced, and when the first nuggets of information were being bandied about?

My memory is of a community of excited gamers relishing the prospect of the next chapter in the IL-2 line of Sims.

Then things started to change.

In no particular order, unlocks werw announced, the ability to change graphics options was remove, people were 'advised' to score the game highly on Metacritic or else the project might be scrapped, etc. etc.


That isn't the way I remember it. Right from the start, people were accusing 1C and 777 Studios of all sorts of conspiracies relating to the cancellation of Cliffs of Dover.


Agreed... there was hostility at the initial announcement but that was mostly bantered on the IL2:CoD website and not the IL2:BoS site. The developers and mods made sure the rancor was at a minimum on the latter's site. I don't blame them, though I do think on occasion their methods were extreme. One incident that stuck with me was the height of pettiness but it's in the past now.

Extreme is also right that once the original 'rebellion' was quelled, the forum was optimistic, helpful and willing to give the developers a chance. The misunderstanding of the early release brought some problems but they were quelled and people moved on. The real trouble for THAT forum came with the release of the single player campaign and the unlocks.

The problems with the sim community itself as you describe Tychos isn't limited to the naysayers. It includes those forum members who support and protect the product. They have been just as acrimonious as those who expressed disappointment. From MY point of view they seem to get more leeway than those who disagree.


Last edited by knightgames; 03/13/16 10:07 PM.
#4239515 - 03/13/16 10:22 PM Re: Why aren't more playing online? [Re: knightgames]  
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 427
TychosElk Offline
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TychosElk  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 427
Originally Posted By: knightgames
Originally Posted By: TychosElk
Originally Posted By: Extreme_One
You think the community around BOS was toxic when the project was announced, and when the first nuggets of information were being bandied about?

My memory is of a community of excited gamers relishing the prospect of the next chapter in the IL-2 line of Sims.

Then things started to change.

In no particular order, unlocks werw announced, the ability to change graphics options was remove, people were 'advised' to score the game highly on Metacritic or else the project might be scrapped, etc. etc.


That isn't the way I remember it. Right from the start, people were accusing 1C and 777 Studios of all sorts of conspiracies relating to the cancellation of Cliffs of Dover.


Agreed... there was hostility at the initial announcement but that was mostly bantered on the IL2:CoD website and not the IL2:BoS site. The developers and mods made sure the rancor was at a minimum on the latter's site. I don't blame them, though I do think on occasion their methods were extreme. One incident that stuck with me was the height of pettiness but it's in the past now.

Extreme is also right that once the original 'rebellion' was quelled, the forum was optimistic, helpful and willing to give the developers a chance. The misunderstanding of the early release brought some problems but they were quelled and people moved on. The real trouble for THAT forum came with the release of the single player campaign and the unlocks.

The problems with the sim community itself as you describe Tychos isn't limited to the naysayers. It includes those forum members who support and protect the product. They have been just as acrimonious as those who expressed disappointment. From MY point of view they seem to get more leeway than those who disagree.



It hardly seems surprising that a commercial concern should give 'more leeway' on their own website to people supporting their products. And compared to some games developers' websites I could name, the BoS one has been relatively open.

#4239524 - 03/13/16 10:45 PM Re: Why aren't more playing online? [Re: TerribleTwo]  
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Posts: 390
Targ Offline
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Targ  Offline
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Posts: 390
Alaska
People should spend less time reading the forums and more time flying in my opinion.

To much rhetoric and gnashing of the teeth for my taste.

There seem to be to many old farts who get upset when the phone rings after 9PM, or someone knocks on the front door unexpected if you know what I mean winkngrin

BoS I a mighty fine flight sim and the only thing missing in my opinion at this point is easy coop mode for hosting.

With a little effort coop can be done, but effort and stuff.

cowboy

#4239610 - 03/14/16 06:29 AM Re: Why aren't more playing online? [Re: Targ]  
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Posts: 1,614
theOden Offline
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Posts: 1,614
Originally Posted By: Targ
.. BoS I a mighty fine flight sim and the only thing missing in my opinion at this point is easy coop mode for hosting.
..


Is it the fast travel to the Action Point or the big flashing score count in the end you like best?

#4239703 - 03/14/16 02:14 PM Re: Why aren't more playing online? [Re: Targ]  
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Jedi Master Offline
Entil'zha
Jedi Master  Offline
Entil'zha
Sierra Hotel

Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Space Coast, USA
Originally Posted By: Targ
People should spend less time reading the forums and more time flying in my opinion.

To much rhetoric and gnashing of the teeth for my taste.

There seem to be to many old farts who get upset when the phone rings after 9PM, or someone knocks on the front door unexpected if you know what I mean winkngrin

BoS I a mighty fine flight sim and the only thing missing in my opinion at this point is easy coop mode for hosting.

With a little effort coop can be done, but effort and stuff.

cowboy


I largely agree. A lot of the problem is perception as opposed to reality, but the devs have done a substandard job of managing those perceptions with some really weird design decisions and foot-in-mouth comments.

Putting aside their forums and PR and "should've/could've" decisions and evaluating the program alone, BoS isn't a million miles from where it needs to be, it's not too far out, but it's still missing the mark. Pat's DCG is helping, but it's still not quite there for SP. The fact that Pat can do it while the devs refused to is incomprehensible to me.

Instead of making coop MP that worked like the old Il-2, CFS, EAW, DCS, LOMAC, and pretty much every other sim released, they went bizarro world. I still play many flight sims that allow "listen" servers instead of dedicated ones. It's the go-to solution for a small group of friends (less than 5) to make their own setup fast and easy and get flying. This thing with requesting an account and running another program is a completely unnecessary additional layer of difficulty that serves no purpose.
Instead of making a campaign that sucked the player in, they made it appeal to ADD players, and let's face it if you Venn diagram ADD gamers and flight sim fans the overlap is VERY small.

I don't think it's impossible to fix what's wrong. It's just impossible to convince them to fix it because they don't think it's wrong. frown



The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#4239716 - 03/14/16 02:44 PM Re: Why aren't more playing online? [Re: TerribleTwo]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,384
PanzerMeyer Offline
Pro-Consul of Florida
PanzerMeyer  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 121,384
Miami, FL USA
+1 Jedi Master


A lot of the shortcomings with BoS are purely the result of design/business reasons and not because of technical limitations.

The exclusion of peer to peer servers for coop play was the result of the publisher/developer wanting to maintain full control over how the players use the game online.

Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 03/14/16 02:46 PM.

“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4239720 - 03/14/16 02:55 PM Re: Why aren't more playing online? [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,088
SlipBall Offline
disillusioned
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disillusioned
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Posts: 1,088
East Coast U.S.A.
Originally Posted By: PanzerMeyer
+1 Jedi Master


A lot of the shortcomings with BoS are purely the result of design/business reasons and not because of technical limitations.

The exclusion of peer to peer servers for coop play was the result of the publisher/developer wanting to maintain full control over how the players use the game online.



yep, that's the legacy of the IL-2 hack...protection is the name of the game now for most developers as well


Post composed with speech to text, it woks grape!


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OEM screenshots & videos of Eu release..So I fly the original game because I am a off-liner and the game's AI was broken after the last good patch, game version 1.0.13954
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