I got told a story by someone in my wife's family about her son pretty much being tortured while on duty in a sub.

This would have happened in the last ten years.

I was told her son and six others were treated, well pretty much tortured because of their religion and non-drinking etc..

The story goes that it finally got to an admiral and the captain and several other officers in the crew were let go from the navy and that there was even a congressional committee involved.

I couldn't find anything by searching and I know there a bunch of service and ex-sevice men on here.

I was just wondering if anyone had read or heard of anything similar.

Thanks

I doubt it. The military is so PC, the first hint of something like that and it gets shut down.

When SF was all male, the sexualized jokes were constant, but I saw one guy complain in an off handed remark and a PFC was booted and a SGT was flagged for a year. If a senior or an officer turns a blind eye even for a nanosecond in the military...Career DONE!

Religious comments? Man, they'd shut that down real quick. Once a comment was made about a Mormon and his underwear and we ended up with a EO class for it and the Mormon wasn't even upset. He was joking about it too.


About the only time crap like that would exist is when it's coming from superiors.

http://www.militarycorruption.com/hollygraf2.htm

Trust me from experience, when superiors want to go after a lower ranking person, it's hell to try to stop or dodge it.

I haven't ever heard of this specific incident. But submarine sailors love to rub each other the wrong way. When they find a weakness, they never stop pushing that button. It could be something as simple as someone named "William" showing up on the boat and requesting that no one ever call him "Bill". From that day forward, he would always be called "Bill". Someone who can't handle a little teasing more than likely can't handle a flooding or fire casualty or simply being submerged in a small space with a 120 guys for 90 days at a time.

A lot of behavior on submarines could be classified as "hazing". While I was serving on subs (1989-1997), the Navy officially banned any/all forms of hazing. Anyone caught hazing anyone else was severely punished to make an example out of them. When a submarine sailor completes sub quals and earns his "dolphins", it was an old tradition for everyone to "tack" them on. i.e., make a fist and pound the "dolphins" into the sailor's chest. Having a crew of 100 or more people doing so would cause severe bruising and some bleeding (the pins would push through the backs that held the badge on your shirt). The Navy considers this hazing, so it was officially banned. Of course, that didn't stop some people. A young sailor ended up with a fracture (collar bone?) from getting his dolphins tacked on. He refused to identify the offender(s). The crew was confined to the sub until the guilty individual(s) came forward. The injured sailor was standing watch topside with a pistol. Some crew members made it clear that if the young sailor told the truth, there would be hell to pay. Other crew members were tired of being confined to the boat in port and pressured the young sailor identify the culprits. The young sailor didn't know what to do. He shot himself in the head.

In my experience, submarine life is not for delicate/sensitive types. Typical submarine behavior is "torture" for someone who reacts the wrong way. But you have to understand, submarine duty requires a certain type of person. The environment creates lots of stress. The games people play on subs serve two purposes: a way to relieve some of that stress and a way to weed out those who don't belong. Unfortunately, some people go to far and if they get caught, punishment can be severe.

While it is possible that the story you heard is at least partially if not fully accurate, it wouldn't take it as gospel without independent confirmation.

The text of this doesn't quite match what we were told. The "hazing" incident became an issue because of the fracture required treatment not simple bruising or bleeding. At least, that is what the Navy told us at the time. This was a very big deal throughout the sub force: http://archives.starbulletin.com/96/09/19/news/story3.html

For an idea of how crazy sub sailors are, even in this modern PC world, consider the first sub to have women officers stationed on board. Every one board had to know this was a very big deal. Washington D.C. and the media would be watching this situation closely. Everyone should have been on their best behavior.

Right away, a group of sailors got busted for setting up cameras (phones?) and recording the women officers in the head (bathroom), i.e. while stripping to get in/out of the shower. They got caught because an officer on another ship got wind of what was going on from an email (most likely copied on a distribution of a recording).

There is pretty much no limit to what sub sailors will do. 400 feet below the ocean in a sealed tube, there are very few PC constraints, unless the Captain/XO are a-holes.

We used to have them when you pinned on your wings, they were called blood wings. If anyone was caught, and I mean anyone, both the culprit and the receiver would be subject to UCMJ. The Sergeant Airborne's told us if a person who did it was retired that did it, they'd be escorted off the post.

That said, there are ways around hazing, the "company" training was a way to haze without it being "hazing". There is a pretty big grey area in that area.

Also, about not drinking, I've never really seen it. Kinda been pressured once to drink heavy and actually it was a full bird that did it over seas. That said, everyone in Group is actually thrilled I drink so little, they don't have to figure out who the DD is that night.

I assumed that it was hazing when I was listening.

I didn't add the most lurid part of the tale, that one of the sailors was killed by the officers with an M16.

I really was just seeing if there was anything even remotely real about the story.

I worked with a bunch of submariners about 30 years back. They definitely marched to a different drummer.

All of their favorite stories involved what one guy called the " growl of the dragon " or something equivalent.

It was when the waste tank was pressurized and you couldn't use the toilet.

You need to ask other sailors about the Shellback rituals.

I seriously don't know that I would believe that, even a little bit. We never cared whether or not somebody drank, or whether or not somebody was religious. Ask them what boat this took place on, and what rate the family member in question was. If this happened ten years ago, I sure as s%&t would have heard about it, and there would have been fleet wide witch hunts and training. I'm sorry, but I'm inclined to throw the flag on this.

These stories were after my time in service, so I don't have any light to shed upon them, specifically. "Tacking on" of newly earned dolphins, as well as rank emblems when newly promoted, were active traditions back then.

I always viewed tacking on dolphins as something that should have been done away with, and you always had certain people in the crew who took sadistic pleasure in punching as hard as they could manage. I never gave anyone more than a light tap and a congratulatory handshake.

I'm saddened to read about Fireman Apprentice O'Brien taking his own life (if that is what it was), especially right after the accomplishment of earning his dolphins. Somebody in his chain of command had their head(s) seriously up their arse(s).

My son did six years in O-Boats in the RAN, straight from Cerberus as a young sailor. Never heard him mention bullying, hazing etc beyond what you always get when a bunch of young men are confined together for long periods.

Come on fellas, this isn't unique to subs....it's commonplace. I even had it as a young articled clerk in an Accountants office in the sixties. You had to defend yourself on a daily basis.

Re: pinning on:

I was active duty about 16 years ago. The Air Force is the only service that still wears enlisted rank on the sleeves in its camouflage uniforms, and back then we wore woodland BDUs. I was promoted to Senior Airman (E-4) six months early in the Below-the-Zone program. However, this didn't happen to me just because I was promoted early.

When someone was promoted, it would be announced at guardmount before shift. We'd have four elements (squads) in our flight (platoon) at guardmount. The first and second elements would face each other as would the third and fourth. The person being promoted would have their new rank temporarily stuck to their BDU sleeves by the flight chief (the senior NCO) and would have to "walk the gauntlet" between first and second elements, then between third and fourth elements. Each flight member would take turns tacking the new rank on by pounding you in the arm.

This was my arms afterwards.

Sorry mate, but no big deal. It was common practice for seniors to strike a young articled clerk on the upper arm with their knuckles by surprise. Hurt like hell. Most just copped it but I used to fight, and boy that didn't end well either in the short term.

If they knew you would fight though, generally they would concentrate on the non-resisters and leave you alone.

BTW we're talking about a Chartered Accountants office here, not a bloody submarine.

Oh I know it's no big deal, I'm just saying that similar practices are EVERYWHERE.

Sadly, not so much anymore. Now when I became a Shellback

Rogue, be thankful you weren't in the Marines picking up Corporal!

Army when promoted still had blood stripes in the 90's. Also had the walk the "gauntlet" and get punched in the upper arm by superiors. Never bothered me a bit.

We got punched when we got promoted, when I picked up Corporal, I got punched in the chest. I literally had a bruise from it, I should have taken a photo, I regret I didn't. That was when this place was ran by Green Berets, when I got transferred to the unit that was ran by Red Hatters, that got stopped.

When I got punched, I knew I could just say no, but you think I was going to do that? Hell no!