#4225337 - 02/04/16 05:28 PM
Re: WW1 and Hypocia
[Re: Akmatov]
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 7,033
komemiute
Hell Drummer
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Hell Drummer
Hotshot
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 7,033
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I think hypoxia is the right spelling...
"Himmiherrgottksakramentzefixhallelujah!" Para_Bellum
"It takes forever +/- 2 weeks for the A-10 to get anywhere significant..." Ice
"Ha! If it gets him on the deck its a start!" MigBuster
"What people like and what critics praise are rarely the same thing. 'Critic' is just another one of those unnecessary, overpaid, parasitic jobs that the human race has churned out so that clever slackers won't have to actually get a real job and possibly soil their hands." Sauron
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#4225364 - 02/04/16 06:06 PM
Re: WW1 and Hypocia
[Re: Akmatov]
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 7,033
komemiute
Hell Drummer
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Hell Drummer
Hotshot
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 7,033
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IIRC DCS does at least something in that regard. Oh and Falcon 3.0 :P But now I'm getting cheesy!
"Himmiherrgottksakramentzefixhallelujah!" Para_Bellum
"It takes forever +/- 2 weeks for the A-10 to get anywhere significant..." Ice
"Ha! If it gets him on the deck its a start!" MigBuster
"What people like and what critics praise are rarely the same thing. 'Critic' is just another one of those unnecessary, overpaid, parasitic jobs that the human race has churned out so that clever slackers won't have to actually get a real job and possibly soil their hands." Sauron
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#4225419 - 02/04/16 07:18 PM
Re: WW1 and Hypocia
[Re: Akmatov]
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,921
vonBaur
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,921
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It looks like you're quoting a source, Akmatov.
Personal experience as a military (HALO) parachutist and skydiver: First of all, the science as I remember it from Altitude Chamber training 40 years ago. The greatest change in density occurs in about the first 5,000 feet above sea level (or mean sea level, MSL, which will be the point of reference for all future altitudes, as air density depends on distance from the Earth's core, not Above Ground Level, AGL). By the time you reach about 17,000 or 18,000 feet you'll be dealing with a density of about 50% that of sea level.
The military requires that all passengers (including crew) must have access to supplemental oxygen on extended (can't quote a definition of "extended", but I'd guess it's safe to assume more than 30 minutes, could be as little as 15) flights above 10,000 feet in an unpressurized aircraft. That's got a safety factor built in. The average person in good medical condition can retain consciousness indefinitely as high as 25,000 feet, although he/she will experience some of the symptoms you described. To what degree depends greatly on the individual, which is why every person in the chamber has to remove his/her mask at that "altitude" until he becomes familiar with what it feels like. For HALO jumpers, we'd use a pass-around bottle unless we were going above 15,000. At that point we'd hook up to a common source with multiple ports until time to stand up, when we'd switch to a bailout bottle carried in our packs.
I mentioned that they would have us take our masks off in the altitude chamber so we could get familiar with our symptoms. Another reason is so we could see just how insidious hypoxia is. It creeps up on you without your realizing it. The closest thing I could liken it to would be someone s-l-o-w-l-y turning up the volume on a stereo or tv, increasing only one degree every few minutes. You wouldn't notice until it was unbearable or turned back down suddenly. That's what happened to me on my first actual experience. We were only jumping at 12,000, an altitude I'd done many skydives at previously. The difference was that we cruised around for a while at that altitude. The instructor with the walk-around bottle told me to take a hit and I said I was ok. He insisted (when a Black Hat insists, you do it), so I took two breaths just to make him go away. I swear, it was like someone turned the lights on. And bear in mind, I'd already been to the chamber many times.
As to WWI; hypoxia was known to balloonists for decades before the Wright brothers ever got off the ground. But oxygen equipment is heavy and bulky, as were parachutes in those days. You're talking about aircraft that were pretty much maxed out carrying the pilot, machine guns, ammunition, and fuel. Some bombers had it. I've seen a photograph of a Gotha nose gunner kitted out for high altitude and he was sucking on an oxygen tube. But scouts? Where would you put it, and what would you do without to carry it? Ammo? Fuel? I'd guess that was the most likely reason.
SALUTE TO ALL!
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#4225518 - 02/04/16 11:24 PM
Re: WW1 and Hypocia
[Re: Akmatov]
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 3,696
Fullofit
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 3,696
Ajax, ON
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Got to love the nose clamp.
"Take the cylinder out of my kidneys, The connecting rod out of my brain, my brain, From out of my arse take the camshaft, And assemble the engine again."
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#4225542 - 02/05/16 12:36 AM
Re: WW1 and Hypocia
[Re: Akmatov]
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,921
vonBaur
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,921
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That's a new one on me. Thanx, Jim...very cool.
Any info on how the system worked?
SALUTE TO ALL!
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#4225640 - 02/05/16 12:48 PM
Re: WW1 and Hypocia
[Re: Akmatov]
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 997
HumanDrone
Just shoot me...
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Just shoot me...
Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 997
Near Pittsburgh, PA USA
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Very interesting post, vonBaur, and thanks for your service (though some of that sounds like real fun!) Yessir, when vonBaur says he'll drop in to see you, he really means he'll DROP IN!!! (I'll get my coat...)
Box: Win7 Pro 64 bit / I72600K @4.1 GHz / EVGA GTX1080Ti/ 16GB RAM / Corsair 240 GB SSD / WD 600 GB Velociraptor / 1050W Power FS Stuff: Saitek X52 Pro Stick/Throttle & Combat Rudder Pedals, TrackIR 5 Sims: FSX Gold, REX 2.0 OD, UTX-NA, FSGenesis 10m mesh/ CFS3 ETO 1.40/Wings Over Flanders Fields BH&H2 (more gorgeous than ever!) Proud BOC inductee 4/30/12!
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#4225711 - 02/05/16 03:55 PM
Re: WW1 and Hypocia
[Re: Akmatov]
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 585
CW3SF
Member
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Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 585
colorado & arizona
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von Baur, well said!
Like you I have trusted myself to all going well with the HALO experiemce. I go back to the very early days ( the late 1950's) when any thing below 15,000 was with out any Oxygen bottle. I am up for a HALO jump soon with the folks down in Yuma AZ this spring. My wife is not happy, but she is happy it will be a "tandum jump". My log book has to many whiskers on it to be current and thus "safe".
Now near 79 ( this April ) I hike and hunt the high country in Colorado up to 14,000 feet with my son and grandson. We check our oxygen level and heartbeat rate a few times during the climb to make sure the "old gezzer" ( me ) is doing OK. I have kept very active my whole life and still show very high Oxygen levels and low heartbeat rates at high altitude. The WW1 pilots who were in poor shape or hung over would have had a hard time, and been a "target" more than a hunter.
Origin made- silverstone case,ASUS Max VI Extreme , CPU intel Core i7 4770k, cooling asotex 570LC, NVIDA 3G GTX 780 Ti , Mem 16GB Kingston Hyper X DDR3 ,game drive 120GB INTEL X25 SS, OS drive 1TB, Win 7 home Prem.Logitech G105 key board,BenQ XL2430 Gaming Monitor. All pilots owe me a beer. Retired USAF Rescue/Survival, Special Forces, and MI (after I got old and grey).
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Exodus
by RedOneAlpha. 04/18/24 05:46 PM
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