#4222369 - 01/28/16 02:29 AM
Re: Prevailing Westerlies
[Re: ARUP]
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 19
LeadSled
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Hogtown, Florida
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There is indeed a VERY strong westerly that blew me so far east I went right off the map! Was gone for months, but made my way back with some awesome Russian rudder pedals. Just posted a VKB rudder binding fix in FAQ's & References.
Over-poured, over-clocked, under-planed, and over here!
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#4222437 - 01/28/16 07:24 AM
Re: Prevailing Westerlies
[Re: DukeIronHand]
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,079
JJJ65
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Czech Rep.
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That is an excellent question! Of course the wind is represented in the game (though I have it turned down) but a prevailing wind that makes getting back to Allied lines more time consuming and slower? Wind speed is given in the mission briefing but I don't remember about direction. And does this wind effect aircraft speed? Knowing OBD's commitment if it was possible it will be there. I await an answer also. +1
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#4222443 - 01/28/16 08:26 AM
Re: Prevailing Westerlies
[Re: ARUP]
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,595
OldHat
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My view is a bit OT, but along the same lines as I believe that weather was a big part of WW1 aviation. It is interesting that WW1 aircraft did not have the kind of instruments needed for flying in bad weather with low or no visibility situations as the more modern planes. A paraphrased excerpt from the aerodrome forum:
The way rain affects an aircraft's performance is they reduce it noticeably. The reasons are:
1) Rain comes during low pressure events and nice weather comes during high pressure events. Low pressure means that wings get less lift.
2) Moisture in the air including high humidity makes the air less dense which again results in less lift for the wings than you would get in low humidity situations.
3) Water on the aircraft itself - wet wings, fuselage, empenage, struts, wires, etc. adds weight to the aircraft which reduces its performance.
Also, I believe that WW1 aircraft generally avoided flying through clouds especially during thunderstorms or heavy rains.
So, I don't know how much limitation there is with the CFS3 engine, but mimicking this could be possible. For example, if there is rain or snow during a mission, then the WOFF manager can automatically "adjust" the aircraft's weight (depending on aircraft type - lighter or less powered) by increasing it slightly or more depending on the amount of rain which should reflect poor performance during that type of weather. Also, the WOFF manager can automatically keep the entire flight (for lighter or less powered ones) at low altitudes during heavy cloud missions as I don't think it would be possible to make the AI fly around clouds.
Just my two cents to add more immersion.
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#4222444 - 01/28/16 08:27 AM
Re: Prevailing Westerlies
[Re: LeadSled]
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,532
DukeIronHand
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High over the Front
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There is indeed a VERY strong westerly that blew me so far east I went right off the map! Was gone for months, but made my way back with some awesome Russian rudder pedals. Just posted a VKB rudder binding fix in FAQ's & References. Well well look who is here. I thought you were kidnapped by space aliens. Welcome back sir!
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#4222498 - 01/28/16 02:07 PM
Re: Prevailing Westerlies
[Re: ARUP]
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,474
JFM
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Temperature, humidity and pressure also affect engine performance, so if you are going to model, for instance, that the airplanes have a longer takeoff roll during a hot and humid day, then this should be reflected in lower engine power output as well. Perhaps even carb ice. But the sim would have to have variable temps, dew points, and pressures in the first place.
Respectfully, that quoted bit about water on the plane adding weight that affects performance "noticeably" is an exaggeration (I'm referring to the quoted info, not you, OldHat.) I've flown in rain and I never noticed the planes handling any differently (although, no, I've never flown any WW1 airplanes, mostly Beech, Cessna, Piper). Plus, how much water is on an airplane flying 100mph? It's all blowing off. If you accumulated all the water on a plane sitting on the ramp, it'd be far less than one gallon. Okay, let's just say it would be one gallon. One gallon of water weighs a little more than 8 pounds. An airplane weighing roughly 2000 lbs (Alb) is not going to handle noticeably different if it weighs 2008 lbs. And with the Mercedes D.IIIa's fuel burn rate of ca. 14 gal/hr, with fuel weighing 6 lbs/gal, you'd burn off those extra 8 lbs in some six minutes. For the sake of discussion, even if you doubled that for a large fudge factor it's still only 12 minutes. You wouldn't have even climbed to altitude yet. IMO, not worth bothering with in the sim. More beneficial than that would be cockpit/propeller/tire combat damage. Maybe they can incorporate such features as part of their pending "non-WW1" project. Assuming (hoping) it's a flight sim, of course.
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#4222572 - 01/28/16 04:04 PM
Re: Prevailing Westerlies
[Re: ARUP]
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,595
OldHat
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I appreciate this info coming from a real pilot, so thanks for clarifying that JFM. I rely on theaerodrome forums for information since I have very little knowledge about aviation in general.
I still think that planes shouldn't fly through clouds in thunderstorms or similar conditions in WOFF.
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#4222671 - 01/28/16 09:13 PM
Re: Prevailing Westerlies
[Re: ARUP]
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 997
HumanDrone
Just shoot me...
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Just shoot me...
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Methinks the big thing with flying through clouds (except, or course, thunderheads) is the orientation issue. As long as you know no one else is nearby (tough when in formation!) a modern aircraft with an artificial horizon should be ok as long as the pilot goes by that. But WWI planes had rudimentary, at best, guidance that way - bubble levels and the like, as I recall.
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#4222884 - 01/29/16 12:02 PM
Re: Prevailing Westerlies
[Re: ARUP]
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Joined: May 2012
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RAF_Louvert
BOC President; Pilot Extraordinaire; Humble Man
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BOC President; Pilot Extraordinaire; Humble Man
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L'Etoile du Nord
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Flying through those big clouds in a light aircraft, and in particular one with little in the way of cockpit aids, is what we who have flown refer to as "a bad idea".
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Three RFC Brass Hats were strolling down a street in London. Two walked into a bar, the third one ducked._________________________________________________________________________ Former Cold War Warrior, USAF Security Service 1974-1978, E-4, Morse Systems Intercept, England, Europe, and points above. "pippy-pahpah-pippy pah-pip-pah"
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#4223660 - 01/31/16 02:31 PM
Re: Prevailing Westerlies
[Re: ARUP]
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RAF_Louvert
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JJJ65, I agree. I have noticed no significant difference in flight times heading east or west over the same distance, and I've checked it on many occasions. What is odd though is that it appears you can be pushed off course by the wind, though it may simply be that any particular aeroplane at any given time might not be trimmed properly, or I am giving slight rudder input and not realizing it. In any event, I have drifted off course on occasion, much as this thread has done.
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Three RFC Brass Hats were strolling down a street in London. Two walked into a bar, the third one ducked._________________________________________________________________________ Former Cold War Warrior, USAF Security Service 1974-1978, E-4, Morse Systems Intercept, England, Europe, and points above. "pippy-pahpah-pippy pah-pip-pah"
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#4223922 - 02/01/16 02:46 AM
Re: Prevailing Westerlies
[Re: ARUP]
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 19
LeadSled
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Hogtown, Florida
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Here's a real scary thought: imagine being in a B.E.2 on a blustery day, winds aloft say 25 kts. Going over, groundspeed 100kts. Going home, groundspeed 50kts. :0
Over-poured, over-clocked, under-planed, and over here!
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#4223970 - 02/01/16 05:57 AM
Re: Prevailing Westerlies
[Re: ARUP]
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Joined: Jan 2015
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LeadSled
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Oops, gotta amend my previous post. Just noticed that the top speed of the B.E.2c is 72mph. So, ground speed over, 85kts. Ground speed home, 35kts.
Over-poured, over-clocked, under-planed, and over here!
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#4225145 - 02/04/16 02:10 AM
Re: Prevailing Westerlies
[Re: ARUP]
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RAF_Louvert
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A number of years ago I was flying an ultralight that had a cruising speed of about 40 mph. While I was aloft the ground winds picked up and when I was returning to land I was crawling against them. However, on the upside, I was able to land in about 30 feet total rolling distance. Truth be told, it was quite unnerving.
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Three RFC Brass Hats were strolling down a street in London. Two walked into a bar, the third one ducked._________________________________________________________________________ Former Cold War Warrior, USAF Security Service 1974-1978, E-4, Morse Systems Intercept, England, Europe, and points above. "pippy-pahpah-pippy pah-pip-pah"
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#4225169 - 02/04/16 03:36 AM
Re: Prevailing Westerlies
[Re: ARUP]
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LeadSled
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Hogtown, Florida
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From a witty, if not so wise, squadron mate: "I swear, on the honor of the CO's daughter, the plane they give me to fly is so slow, on a windy day I've got to land it backwards, back up across the field and back it into the lee-side hangar door!" He's since been transferred to safer duty, closer to the front.
Over-poured, over-clocked, under-planed, and over here!
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#4225445 - 02/04/16 07:46 PM
Re: Prevailing Westerlies
[Re: ARUP]
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vonBaur
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In my first flight simulator, for S&G's one day, I set the wind speed to 100 knots and landed a Cessna backwards. It's not that scary if you do it at your desk, Lou.
SALUTE TO ALL!
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#4225717 - 02/05/16 04:02 PM
Re: Prevailing Westerlies
[Re: ARUP]
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Joined: Apr 2004
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Wodin
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The wind had a huge effect on operations and making the pilots life even more difficult. A dodgy engine when behind the lines for the Entente forces could be a nightmare if there was a strong westerly wind.
I have read somewhere about a pilot more or less at a stand still whilst flying into the wind above the aerodrome when it showed seventy on his airspeed indicator. Might be a pilots tale that went round at the time but I'm sure at times it felt like it.
Last edited by Wodin; 02/05/16 04:04 PM.
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