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#4211483 - 12/30/15 04:43 PM Not looking good for Axanar  
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Seems like CBS has filed a lawsuit:

http://bit.ly/1OxGjf5


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#4211498 - 12/30/15 05:20 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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So why did CBS wait this long to sue?

Seems to me like they were waiting to see if Axanar got too popular before deciding to act.


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#4211538 - 12/30/15 06:58 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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I think Axanar has become so popular that CBS realizes that were just making their brand that much better.

Sounds about right to me.
Also looks like they were somewhat prepared for that reaction. If it's a matter of money to see it through though, a crowdfunded project probably doesn't have much of a chance in open court vs CBS.


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#4211542 - 12/30/15 07:03 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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Originally Posted By: Raw Kryptonite
“
Sounds about right to me.
Also looks like they were somewhat prepared for that reaction. If it's a matter of money to see it through though, a crowdfunded project probably doesn't have much of a chance in open court vs CBS.


Unfortunately you are correct. I also don't think the argument that "no money is being made" will fly in court either. I mean, the actual crew and actors working on the film are not volunteers. They are getting paid and hence they are making a financial gain from a property that is owned by CBS.


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#4212044 - 01/01/16 04:09 AM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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Yes, but they're not getting sued. CBS isn't going after the salary Richard Hatch would be paid, this is about the guy producing it that stands to make a profit if one is incurred. If it costs $5m to pay the actors and crew and build the sets and film it, and the film makes $5m back between crowdfunding and selling copies, they can claim no money was made. Of course, Hollywood is infamous for using creative accounting to prove that something that clearly was profitable broke even or lost money, so they probably expect him to do the same--make millions but claim it's a wash by tailoring the books.

I don't know where the line is as far as "making money" but it mentions that the guy running this project is a lawyer and that CBS and Paramount were being intentionally vague to avoid defining this. So my guess is he was betting on this happening to force their hand to submit, in writing, what their guidelines are. If they are so strict that they would preclude what they've already allowed, he can use that against them in court. If they're not that strict I'm sure he has plans in place to get around the restrictions...but he needs to have a legal document on which to base his strategy and their deliberate avoidance of making one won't fly any longer.

Also, there's the new ST series for the lame CBS streaming service and a new film coming next year which has raised the ST brand in CBS/PM's eyes. If this was 10 years ago maybe they'd wouldn't have said anything as long as the film didn't have a budget of $10m and then make $100m or something.




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#4212133 - 01/01/16 01:46 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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If CBS goes through with this there is no way I'll be watching their new ST series. Screw them.


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#4212157 - 01/01/16 03:39 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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MGM did the same thing to Crowd Funded Stargate series and won easily.


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#4212169 - 01/01/16 04:31 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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This hardly comes as a surprise. One thing is fan films, this is not a fan film - this movie did fundraising and solictated investors. That is clearly into the land of professional productions.

I already predicted this last summer when I first heard of this project.

#4212194 - 01/01/16 06:11 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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doesnt matter, crowd funded or not, Star Trek, is property of CBS/Paramount, and producing anything with that name or content requires a license agreement with CBS, which he does not have.


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#4213282 - 01/05/16 03:57 AM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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From the Axanar Facebook page:

Star Trek legend David Gerrold (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Gerrold ) on the CBS lawsuit against Axanar. A must read!

David Gerrold, January 2 at 4:21pm:
Quote:
So let me talk about the lawsuit against Axanar, by CBS and Paramount.

I will qualify my remarks by saying I have no dog in this particular fight, I am only a knowledgeable observer.

I've known several people in the Paramount legal department, most of whom were honorable. I also have known several fan film productions, most of whom were not only honorable but enthusiastic about Star Trek in a way that should embarrass some of the people who were paid to produce actual episodes of the series.

That said, I think the lawsuit was filed without sufficient consideration of the situation.

Fans have been making Star Trek fan films -- and crowdfunding them -- for fifteen years. There's Star Trek New Voyages, Star Trek Farragut, Star Trek Renegads, Star Trek Continues, and probably a few others I'm unaware of. These are all recreations of the original series, with fan actors playing Kirk, Spock, McCoy et al. These are all filmed on recreations of the original series bridge and corridors and other sets. They are filmed with replicas of props, costumes, makeup, and set design. They are such accurate recreations of the original series that bootleggers overseas have sold copies of the episodes as if they are the real thing.

All of the fan film productions operate under the same general guideline -- have fun, but you're not allowed to make a profit. So all of the fan film productions are freely available on YouTube.

Part of the reason so many professionals, like myself, have participated in fan productions is the desire to make and see more Star Trek. Those who were too young (or not born yet) to participate in the original series, have come to the fan productions as an opportunity to be a part of the magic.

All of this has to be seen as a measure of the kind of enthusiasm that Star Trek fans have and that should be available to any new Star Trek movie or TV series.

Now, Axanar -- Axanar is not a recreation of the original series. It's about a battle referred to in passing, in only one episode of the original series. It's about a minor character in one episode and how he became a Starfleet legend. It does not take place on the Enterprise. It does not use any of the characters of the original series. Its closest relationship to the original series is that it takes place in the same universe, many years before Kirk and Spock.

Now ... I am not a lawyer and I have not been approached by either side to function as either a consultant or an expert witness (although, if this ever goes to trial, I expect I will be called in) -- but, if Axanar represents an infringement on the copyrights of Paramount and CBS, then so does Star Trek New Voyages, Star Trek Farragut, Star Trek Renegades, and Star Trek Continues. And whoever else.

Based on the number of views that all these separate iterations have earned worldwide -- possibly more than a hundred million -- Paramount and CBS could file for damages of a billion dollars.

And the resulting fannish firestorm would go on for years.

As I have heard the story, the first New Voyages episode was a private adventure, never intended for internet distribution. But one of the participants did upload it to YouTube -- and shortly thereafter, James Cawley received a call from Paramount legal, the gist of which was: "Have fun, but don't sell tickets, don't sell copies, don't make a profit."

Now, that was smart, it recognized fannish enthusiasm -- but at the same time, it planted the seeds for today's situation, because it created a de facto license for all Star Trek fan films.

Which brings us to the lawsuit against Axanar. The lawyers have to prove two things:

1) That this fan film represents a significant usage of Paramount/CBS's property.

and

2) Axanar is a profit-making enterprise. (Ohell, it isn't even THE Enterprise.)

Both will be hard to prove, especially the latter, because of all the fan films, Axanar has been the most transparent with its fund-raising and its accounting.

There is a third point that would likely be made in such a court case:

If Axanar represents a threat to the copyright, why haven't Paramount and CBS taken steps to shut down New Voyages, Farragut, Renegades, and Continues? What makes Axanar different? What makes Axanar a threat?

Paramount/CBS's response would likely be that Axanar represents a professional level of production. Well, yes -- but so does New Voyages. (I can't speak for any of the others on that, although I do know that many professionals have been involved with Continues and Renegades.)

There is a way out of this mess -- and if people on all sides of this are smart -- it could be resolved in a matter of days.

Lucasfilm is the model. They created an award for fan films and even arranged licensing and distribution.

Paramount/CBS should do the same. There are people at CBS who would love to put out a DVD or Blu-ray distribution of Star Trek fan films, but have so far been unable to get approval for the idea. But it's a good idea. An official distribution of fan films would generate money for both the copyright owners and for the filmmakers to use in future efforts. The fan-films would be officially licensed as fan productions.

To make this work, the studio would have to hire a qualified liaison to work with various fan films to make sure that they follow appropriate guidelines and in return would receive the blessings of legal distribution and protection.

By keeping the fan films in a specific licensed venue, a kind of voluntary garden, Paramount and CBS would benefit from the good publicity of being seen to promote and foster great fan efforts -- the fans would benefit from having a specific legal venue for their individual productions.

Yes, there would be a lot of paperwork to be settled -- and I expect the cooperation of various Guilds might be necessary as well -- but the goal here is to produce a win-win situation for everyone, but especially for the fans.

Because if it weren't for the fans and their loyalty for the past 49 years, there wouldn't have been a franchise in the first place.

Feel free to share.


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#4213508 - 01/05/16 07:50 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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Quote:
If Axanar represents a threat to the copyright, why haven't Paramount and CBS taken steps to shut down New Voyages, Farragut, Renegades, and Continues? What makes Axanar different? What makes Axanar a threat?

Paramount/CBS's response would likely be that Axanar represents a professional level of production. Well, yes -- but so does New Voyages. (I can't speak for any of the others on that, although I do know that many professionals have been involved with Continues and Renegades.)




This is the main thing right here. The whole deal about seemingly frivolous copyright lawsuits is the argument repeated ad nauseum that if they don't protect it they forfeit it. If they allow something once, they have to allow it again.
To the outside observer, Axanar is no different from the fan films that preceded it except for its apparent budget. If every complaint made about Axanar also applies to one or more fan films that they did allow to go unchallenged, their suit fails. There must be a standout difference and it seems to me that "it cost $10m to make while the others never breached $1m" isn't enough. If they're being open about the funds to show they're not profiting (and paying participants is NOT making a profit, the people who put money in getting more than that amount back is), I don't see how this can work.

Now Gerrold is in a peculiar position, and I don't know that I'd breathe easier just because he's stated support for me, but it does indicate that people with superior experience and knowledge to those of us here feels similarly, and I think points to there being only two outcomes:

Axanar is allowed to proceed, perhaps with Paramount/CBS oversight
Axanar is stopped, and all future fan films are also halted because of the threat of this happening to them

Either way, they're going to look bad for starting this against Axanar, because either way it's resolved the fans are going to perceive it as an attack on them.




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#4213545 - 01/05/16 09:03 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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Has any of the previous fan movies/series solicited public funding for their work?

I think that might be a huge difference - what some fan has made from their private funds vs active solicitation of funds.

#4213573 - 01/05/16 09:57 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: EAF331 MadDog]  
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Originally Posted By: EAF331 MadDog
Has any of the previous fan movies/series solicited public funding for their work?

I think that might be a huge difference - what some fan has made from their private funds vs active solicitation of funds.



I know for certain that "Star Trek Continues", "Star Trek New Voyages" and "Star Trek: Renegades" have all had public fund raising campaigns.


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#4213575 - 01/05/16 09:58 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jedi Master]  
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Originally Posted By: Jedi Master

Axanar is allowed to proceed, perhaps with Paramount/CBS oversight
Axanar is stopped, and all future fan films are also halted because of the threat of this happening to them

Either way, they're going to look bad for starting this against Axanar, because either way it's resolved the fans are going to perceive it as an attack on them.


Ditto, ditto and ditto.

CBS has opened a can of worms.


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#4213621 - 01/06/16 12:09 AM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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If they were smart, they (Paramount) would allow these well run fan movies and take a percentage, allowing them to make money. It's not like they care much about quality control.


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#4213650 - 01/06/16 01:52 AM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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That or Axanar is gettng too close to their planned new series.


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#4213653 - 01/06/16 02:05 AM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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Or they fear that Axanar is so much better it will make their new series look inferior. smile


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#4213666 - 01/06/16 03:10 AM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: SkateZilla]  
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Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
That or Axanar is gettng too close to their planned new series.


That is too good to be true. If the new series were set in the Axanar time period, in the original time line, I'd be ecstatic.


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#4213667 - 01/06/16 03:11 AM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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Originally Posted By: Jayhawk
Or they fear that Axanar is so much better it will make their new series look inferior. smile


Ding ding ding!!!! We have a winner!


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#4213676 - 01/06/16 03:48 AM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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Have any of these other fan movies sold copies to people, and by that I mean the people who produced it, not by bootleggers or what have you?

#4213680 - 01/06/16 04:01 AM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Mudcat]  
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Originally Posted By: Mudcat
Have any of these other fan movies sold copies to people, and by that I mean the people who produced it, not by bootleggers or what have you?




No, nor is Axanar to be "sold".

However there are different levels of rewards for different levels of support, at some level of kickstarter donation you could get a copy of the finished movie on DVD / BluRay but it is well above the fair market value of such a product.


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#4213692 - 01/06/16 05:44 AM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Originally Posted By: F4UDash4
No, nor is Axanar to be "sold".

However there are different levels of rewards for different levels of support, at some level of kickstarter donation you could get a copy of the finished movie on DVD / BluRay but it is well above the fair market value of such a product.


How is that not selling the movie? You pay money, and get a copy? That is the definition of a sale.

#4213732 - 01/06/16 11:23 AM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: EAF331 MadDog]  
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Originally Posted By: EAF331 MadDog
Originally Posted By: F4UDash4
No, nor is Axanar to be "sold".

However there are different levels of rewards for different levels of support, at some level of kickstarter donation you could get a copy of the finished movie on DVD / BluRay but it is well above the fair market value of such a product.


How is that not selling the movie? You pay money, and get a copy? That is the definition of a sale.



Okay technically they are "selling" the movie, but the key is that no profit is made. The movie will be freely available online, just like all the fan productions are. The copy on disc is just a "perk" for people donating to the kickstarter, as are copies of the script, autographed copies of pictures of the actors, uniform patches etc. They even had a donation level of a few thousand dollars where you could be an extra in the cast and appear in the movie.

See here:

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/axanar#/


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#4213752 - 01/06/16 01:07 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Originally Posted By: F4UDash4
Originally Posted By: EAF331 MadDog
Originally Posted By: F4UDash4
No, nor is Axanar to be "sold".

However there are different levels of rewards for different levels of support, at some level of kickstarter donation you could get a copy of the finished movie on DVD / BluRay but it is well above the fair market value of such a product.


How is that not selling the movie? You pay money, and get a copy? That is the definition of a sale.



Okay technically they are "selling" the movie, but the key is that no profit is made. The movie will be freely available online, just like all the fan productions are. The copy on disc is just a "perk" for people donating to the kickstarter, as are copies of the script, autographed copies of pictures of the actors, uniform patches etc. They even had a donation level of a few thousand dollars where you could be an extra in the cast and appear in the movie.

See here:

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/axanar#/


Whether they make a profit or not doesn't matter. There's a big difference between "not taking money for someone else's IP" and "not making money on someone else's IP"

#4213779 - 01/06/16 02:11 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Mudcat]  
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Originally Posted By: Mudcat


Whether they make a profit or not doesn't matter.



Yes, it does.


From David Gerrold comments above:


"All of the fan film productions operate under the same general guideline -- have fun, but you're not allowed to make a profit. So all of the fan film productions are freely available on YouTube."


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#4213807 - 01/06/16 03:41 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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is he a lawyer? no, and by his own admission he doesn't represent either side. He doesn't have to be precise with his wording.

#4213825 - 01/06/16 04:39 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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"Making a profit" in legal terms is not about staying under the threshold of a positive return on investment. It's about taking money for the finished product ... at all. Maybe Paramount would tolerate a kickstarter that didn't promise anything to the backers other than "your name in the credits" and a YouTube HD video as a result. But producing disks and selling them online or at conventions, or bundling copies of the film with other items which are nominally sold, that's a big no-no.

#4213857 - 01/06/16 05:28 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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Star Trek Renegades does the same, they've not been sued.

http://startrekrenegades.com/home/donate/


"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4213866 - 01/06/16 05:44 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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Got to start somewhere.

#4213888 - 01/06/16 06:52 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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I've heard that's why companies often seem so litigious, because if they don't squash everyone, even the little mom and pop operations, they can't defend their copyright because the first person they sue can say it wasn't a copyright defense since they didn't go after other infringers. I wonder if not going after those other productions will hurt their case.


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#4213927 - 01/06/16 09:08 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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Exactly. By waiting till now, they've undercut themselves. On the one hand it seems obvious they should prevail, but because they sat around winking and smiling at previous efforts they've definitely established a precedent.

I think the apparent quality in the trailer exceeds what they think they can budget for their new stupid "streaming only" ST and they're nervous people will watch the pilot and say "Axanar looks better, forget this" and kill their All Access (that IMO is doomed anyway) initiative. They are right to be concerned about whether this will work, and whether their series will succeed, but they went the wrong way about this.

It MIGHT have worked...if CBS had swallowed their pride and put the new ST on Amazon or Netflix. How many people already have one or both of those? Who's going to fork out for a THIRD service? Or if you have Hulu, a fourth? CBS content only? For the price of an MMO? Not going to last.



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#4213991 - 01/07/16 12:24 AM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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Exactly.

Which is why, I think, Lucasfilm was smart to word a license for fan productions.

#4214029 - 01/07/16 03:11 AM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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There has to be some difference between this and renegades, what that is, I dunno. My first guess in waiting so long would be, fans are going to hate you for trying to protect your IP, because in some instances you have to or stand to lose all control of them in the future. So maybe there were waiting for some "milestone" to be reached before going ahead. Just because the kickerstarter and other funding were successful doesn't mean it will definitely happen, as folks have learned.

If it falls apart on it's own then you don't have to be the bad guys to ruin it.

Maybe Renegades is ok because they said they were going to pitch it as a pilot for a new show to CBS? Axanar might be something they planned on doing officially, guess we'll have to wait and see. Or maybe it's possible Renegades will get the same treatment in short order.

#4214094 - 01/07/16 10:16 AM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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They seem to be thinking upside down, They have the IP for
this, and people seem to want to create it for themselves.
This could be a whole new way to profit - let anyone make
the stuff, market it like Steam's game market works, and
take a royalty profit on every purchase; let the consumers
pick the ones that have the quality to continue supporting.

If it's trademarked, not copyrighted, this revenue stream
could only expire when people are saturated with product
and can't be bothered to buy any more. Imagine if you had
ownership of a trademark for say, Sherlock Holmes, or all
of Shakespeare's characters and titles...

#4220075 - 01/22/16 03:21 AM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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This group has been allowed to continue, as have others...

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/21/entertainment/star-trek-new-voyages-online-series/


"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4220811 - 01/24/16 02:44 AM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4262828 - 05/22/16 07:36 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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Potentially good news:

http://io9.gizmodo.com/paramounts-lawsuit-against-axanar-productions-star-trek-1777959978

If it turns out to be true, I can only say: Thank you, J.J. Abrahms and Justin Lin!


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#4273064 - 06/24/16 06:01 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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Welp...

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/06/23/a...lms-guidelines/

These guidelines retroactively prohibit a lot of previous fan made films and productions.


From the CBS site: http://www.startrek.com/fan-films


Last edited by Bib4Tuna; 06/24/16 11:10 PM.
#4273081 - 06/24/16 07:05 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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The whole thing is a slap in the face; It has to be 15 mins or less, can't have any professional anything including any actors who have ever been on Star Trek. Can't use the words "Star Trek", not exactly an embrace of the fans and their creativeness.


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#4273139 - 06/24/16 09:39 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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"or utilizing previous Star Trek cast and crew"

That's BS, they have a right to work and exercise their talents. I don't see how they can make that call.


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#4273155 - 06/24/16 10:39 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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Originally Posted By: Raw Kryptonite
"or utilizing previous Star Trek cast and crew"

That's BS, they have a right to work and exercise their talents. I don't see how they can make that call.
It would depend on what the contract stated when they appeared on whatever ST show or film. If the contract made no mention of appearing in fan made Star Trek stuff then CBS/Paramount does indeed have no right.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4273237 - 06/25/16 05:25 AM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted By: PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted By: Raw Kryptonite
"or utilizing previous Star Trek cast and crew"

That's BS, they have a right to work and exercise their talents. I don't see how they can make that call.
It would depend on what the contract stated when they appeared on whatever ST show or film. If the contract made no mention of appearing in fan made Star Trek stuff then CBS/Paramount does indeed have no right.


Except as the owner of the copyright/trademark - they have every right to dictate terms for sanctioning fan movies which violates their rights. They want to avoid even the remotest kind of "officialness" of any fan show with that a real Trek cast/crew would give it.

Fan projects are of course welcome to take onboard former Trek members, but they now know that doing so will bring down the legal might of CBS/Paramount on them. And not everyone has the resources to try to take a court case over it.

#4273898 - 06/27/16 06:15 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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I can understand saying "Walker Koenig cannot appear as Pavel Chekov in a fan film." Makes total sense.
To say "Kate Vernon, who was on a couple of episodes as an alien in human disguise on Voyager, cannot appear as a human with a different name, in a different era, in a different set of circumstances."

Basically, although the lawsuit has been dropped, Axanar is dead. Not only that, many previous projects violated it and other projected ones are likewise dead.




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#4274060 - 06/28/16 05:41 AM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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I noticed they dropped a couple of trailers lately. Trying took drum up some last minute support I guess.


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#4274345 - 06/29/16 03:47 AM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jedi Master]  
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Originally Posted By: Jedi Master


Basically, although the lawsuit has been dropped....




There has been no official announcement that the lawsuit has actually been dropped. Apparently Abrams / Lin jumped the gun on that announcement.


"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4283829 - 08/01/16 05:40 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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I find this to be an excellent video on the Fan Film issue:



https://youtu.be/KxOkhC8-u3s



"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4330397 - 01/22/17 01:42 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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From Axanar's Facebook page:

Quote:
Here's the "official" statement from Axanar Productions regarding today's settlement announcement:
AXANAR PRODUCTIONS STATEMENT REGARDING COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT LAWSUIT SETTLEMENT
Valencia, CA - Friday, January 20 - Axanar Productions is pleased to announce that we have reached a formal resolution to the lawsuit brought against Alec Peters, and the fan film production, AXANAR, by CBS Studios, Inc. and Paramount Pictures Corporation.
Since the beginning of the lawsuit, over a year ago, we have expressed our desire to address the concerns of the studios, and our willingness to make necessary changes, as long as we could reasonably meet our commitments to AXANARS over 14,000 donors, fans and supporters. We are now able to do exactly that.
Terms of the settlement agreement include an agreement to allow Axanar Productions to continue showing PRELUDE TO AXANAR commercial-free on YouTube and to allow Axanar Productions to produce the AXANAR feature film as two fifteen-minute segments that can be distributed on YouTube (also without ads).
Additional terms of the agreement will be made available to cast, crew and donors through private correspondence.
For the next sixty days, Axanar Productions will be working through some final legal requirements requiring immediate attention. In addition, there are several pre-production issues that need to be re-visited before we can begin principal photography on our project.
Axanar Productions was created by lifelong Star Trek fans to celebrate their love for Star Trek. Alec Peters and the Axanar team look forward to continuing to share the Axanar story and are happy to work within the Guidelines for Fan Films for future projects.
Throughout this process, we will continue communicating with our fans and backers to ensure they are informed and involved until we reach completion of the production.
For those of you who are donors, you will be receiving an email with some "donor exclusive" information.
Thanks again for your support this past year.
Live Long and Prosper.



So basically CBS agreed to a 30 minute short film (instead of the planned 100 minutes). Oh well. Better than nothing, I suppose?


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#4330424 - 01/22/17 03:25 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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30 minutes is better than nothing. Still, seems like a loss for fans.


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#4330428 - 01/22/17 04:25 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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CBS / Paramount can take their new ST show they want me to pay to watch and shove it. If they were smart they would have hired the entire Axanar team and made it an official release.


I'm re-watching TNG now, I finished TOS a few months ago. I can rewatch the original timeline pre-JJ TV shows and movies for a long time.


I just can't see Roddenberry, as many faults as he did have, ever suing fans.


"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4330504 - 01/22/17 08:53 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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I'm happily anticipating the new Star Trek show, I don't give a flying hoot about fan movies.

About the only good fan movie I've seen is "Troops" for Star Wars.

#4330633 - 01/23/17 02:51 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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If they put the new ST on the air I'd watch it.

I'm not signing up for some network's streaming service.



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#4330723 - 01/23/17 06:18 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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Since there's a CBS app on the Fire TV box, I'll probably do it. Then cancel when it's done. I do think it's stupid for them to do it this way considering their app doesn't seem to be on smart tv's.


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#4330726 - 01/23/17 06:25 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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Originally Posted By: Raw Kryptonite
Since there's a CBS app on the Fire TV box, I'll probably do it. Then cancel when it's done. I do think it's stupid for them to do it this way considering their app doesn't seem to be on smart tv's.


CBS will kill the show by making it exclusive on their streaming service. Mark my words.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4330747 - 01/23/17 07:24 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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I have no doubt.
The only hope here is that it does well enough to somehow generate buzz that they bring it to tv or work something out with netflix, amazon or something like that. There's no way for something on an obscure app to work out, or depending on people to watch on pc/mobiles.


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#4330791 - 01/23/17 09:23 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted By: PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted By: Raw Kryptonite
Since there's a CBS app on the Fire TV box, I'll probably do it. Then cancel when it's done. I do think it's stupid for them to do it this way considering their app doesn't seem to be on smart tv's.


CBS will kill the show by making it exclusive on their streaming service. Mark my words.


I think that is thinking from the last millenium. The success of the Netflix series shows amongst others shows that the business model works very well.

#4330826 - 01/23/17 11:49 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: EAF331 MadDog]  
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Originally Posted By: EAF331 MadDog
Originally Posted By: PanzerMeyer
Originally Posted By: Raw Kryptonite
Since there's a CBS app on the Fire TV box, I'll probably do it. Then cancel when it's done. I do think it's stupid for them to do it this way considering their app doesn't seem to be on smart tv's.


CBS will kill the show by making it exclusive on their streaming service. Mark my words.


I think that is thinking from the last millenium. The success of the Netflix series shows amongst others shows that the business model works very well.
You can't compare Netflix with the CBS steaming service. Had this show also been planned for Netflix then it would be a completely different story. Very few people are going to sign up for the CBS streaming service just for Star Trek.


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#4330838 - 01/24/17 12:18 AM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted By: PanzerMeyer
Very few people are going to sign up for the CBS streaming service just for Star Trek.


Why not? I do not see any difference, as people will subscribe and (unless there is a minimal consumption clause in the terms of the subscription) will end their subscription at the end of the season.

That's how I watch Game of Thrones on HBO GO.

And no, I do not watch anything else on GO while I'm subscribed.

In my experience, a large number of viewers of GoT do the same.

#4330839 - 01/24/17 12:19 AM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Originally Posted By: F4UDash4
If CBS goes through with this there is no way I'll be watching their new ST series. Screw them.


Meh, don't watch it anyways. It's far too politically correct to bother.

#4330854 - 01/24/17 01:36 AM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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Netflix is established, it started the streaming market. It's as embedded in streaming as you can get, along with youtube. Most have no idea CBS even had an app, I sure didn't.
If it's app isn't on smart tv's, like Netflix, youtube, amazon and Vudu, most won't ever bother with it.
I agree streaming is the future, or I hope so, it's about time we got to pick channels for ourselves, but just having an app isn't good enough.


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#4330919 - 01/24/17 11:54 AM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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What truly pisses me off is that the new ST will be on Netflix all over the world, just not in the US. I repeat: Screw You CBS.


"In the vast library of socialist books, there’s not a single volume on how to create wealth, only how to take and “redistribute” it.” - David Horowitz
#4330954 - 01/24/17 02:00 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Mr_Blastman]  
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Originally Posted By: Mr_Blastman
Originally Posted By: F4UDash4
If CBS goes through with this there is no way I'll be watching their new ST series. Screw them.


Meh, don't watch it anyways. It's far too politically correct to bother.


Oh, so you've seen it? How did the new ship look? What was the lead character like?



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#4330957 - 01/24/17 02:02 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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In all fairness, isn't the new CBS show following the same pattern as ST: TOS? By that I mean both shows push the boundaries of what is considered to be acceptable by the current day society.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4330991 - 01/24/17 03:03 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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Yes, making it streaming only on CBS is certainly not what I consider acceptable.

People went to Netflix because it had everything. A one-stop shop. Now the number of streaming titles has decreased like 50% from its peak, but if you have zero interest in their original programming and just want the digital equivalent of Blockbuster (which is what NF built itself as) they are no longer the best choice.
I think Amazon Prime has a larger selection of non-original streaming titles, but even they don't have it all.

That's why I still get the DVDs in the mail. They DO have everything, with the exception of some older TV shows that they used to carry but have not bothered to replace worn out discs. I believe the early seasons of the X Files are no longer offered that way, but the later ones still are. Doesn't matter that you can get the whole series on BD now, they only have the later seasons on DVD only. Because cost.

I have heard of a growing number of people getting hacked Fire or Google TV sticks that give them access to everything. See, studios, that's what people want! They used to go to Blockbuster, which had everything, then they went to NF when it had everything, then the studios decided "Uh...DUH...let's make people sign up to 10 different services from each network and studio to see all the shows and films they want to see, they'll LIKE that...DUH..."

It's no wonder that something like 1/3 of the population pirates at least some content.




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#4331026 - 01/24/17 04:42 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Originally Posted By: F4UDash4
What truly pisses me off is that the new ST will be on Netflix all over the world, just not in the US. I repeat: Screw You CBS.


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#4331029 - 01/24/17 04:49 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jedi Master]  
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Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
Yes, making it streaming only on CBS is certainly not what I consider acceptable.

People went to Netflix because it had everything. A one-stop shop. Now the number of streaming titles has decreased like 50% from its peak, but if you have zero interest in their original programming and just want the digital equivalent of Blockbuster (which is what NF built itself as) they are no longer the best choice.
I think Amazon Prime has a larger selection of non-original streaming titles, but even they don't have it all.



They do have some titles that Netflix doesn't, so I'm glad to have both. I wouldn't likely pay for streaming on amazon, but since it comes with Prime, it's a bargain.
I like that if titles aren't "free" you often have the option to go ahead and pay for it. Such as the current season of shows, the episodes pop up a day or two after being broadcast. You can buy the season and watch that way. Currently we're watching Justified and Vikings which aren't on Netflix.

As for original programming, Netflix has the Daredevil etc line of shows that are amazing. Marco Polo was incredible, it's a crime that they aren't continuing it. They must've bit off more than they could chew cost-wise, because it was amazing. Prime is coming along with the Top Gear replacement show (Grand Tour) and some others. They aren't at Netflix's level yet though. It's Amazon though, I wouldn't count them out on anything they want to do.


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#4331171 - 01/25/17 12:27 AM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jedi Master]  
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Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
Originally Posted By: Mr_Blastman
Originally Posted By: F4UDash4
If CBS goes through with this there is no way I'll be watching their new ST series. Screw them.


Meh, don't watch it anyways. It's far too politically correct to bother.


Oh, so you've seen it? How did the new ship look? What was the lead character like?



The Jedi Master


I don't need to watch it. I already read an interview with the snarky lead writer who promised to do his best to offend any morally decent person he could.

That's all I needed to hear. I think I'll pass.

Last edited by Mr_Blastman; 01/25/17 12:30 AM.
#4331304 - 01/25/17 02:37 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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So it's Family Guy Trek? I like shows that offend everyone equally. LOL


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#4331305 - 01/25/17 02:40 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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I'll reiterate again. Star Trek from the very beginning was a "progressive" franchise.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4331309 - 01/25/17 02:44 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Mr_Blastman]  
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Originally Posted By: Mr_Blastman
Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
Originally Posted By: Mr_Blastman
Originally Posted By: F4UDash4
If CBS goes through with this there is no way I'll be watching their new ST series. Screw them.


Meh, don't watch it anyways. It's far too politically correct to bother.


Oh, so you've seen it? How did the new ship look? What was the lead character like?



The Jedi Master


I don't need to watch it. I already read an interview with the snarky lead writer who promised to do his best to offend any morally decent person he could.

That's all I needed to hear. I think I'll pass.


Really? That's what he said? I find that remarkable. Not what someone trying to get people to watch their show would normally say.

Of course, it might be you, not him.



The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#4331346 - 01/25/17 03:57 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted By: PanzerMeyer
I'll reiterate again. Star Trek from the very beginning was a "progressive" franchise.


It was. But they didn't cram an agenda down folks' throat out of spite like the new show's writer has pledged to do. From my take on what he said, it sounds like he's going to pull a "Black Sails" and violate canon lore by making someone like Captain Flint gay.

I have an issue with that. But I also had an issue with the female/female scenes on the show, too. They added little to the program, and all I really wanted to see was pirates scheming and stealing treasure.

As progressive as Star Trek was, it was still a show that children could watch, and aired during daytime television in the 70s. Next Generation was and is the same(though there's one or two shows that are a little risque). This new show, from the description of it, sounds like it might not be that.

Look, there's a line that needs to be drawn in the sand against the extreme progressive agendas that are permeating modern shows. What we have now doesn't resemble what we had in the 60s, it takes it to a whole new level of depravity. I'm watching a show right now that relishes in bashing Christians--almost like sport. But you never see any other religions being bashed. Only Christians. That's not right.

Sometimes though, it can be tastefully done. Take Breaking Bad, for instance(spoilers): Gus, one of the key antagonists of the show, never came out as being gay, but it was implied several times that he was. I'm okay with that, because frankly having him come out would have done nothing for the plot, so instead left it up to the imagination through things that were revealed in the dialogue.

I'd like to see Star Trek as Star Trek, not reinvent the wheel. Make it canon and leave it at that. I'd rather not see hot commanders trotting about the galaxy in space. Keep it kid friendly so we can hope to have a new generation of imagination inspired to pick up the torch and carry it on, so when everyone here is sitting in a nursing home, they can still enjoy new Trek series. smile



(p.s. I'm not on a high horse, either. I've written some pretty deplorable stuff. But I've always made sure to show contrasting points of view in good and bad lights. That's what we don't have on modern television--those contrasting points of view. It's okay to be extreme about a position if you're fair to the other side on the same episode or honestly try and balance it out during the same season. I rarely see that done.)

#4331367 - 01/25/17 05:20 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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Blastman has a point about Trek being a family show in the past, regardless of any political overtures. But now they're making noises about possible nudity since the new show won't be subject to broadcast rules


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#4331371 - 01/25/17 05:23 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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Well naturally ST:TOS was "family friendly" since it aired on network tv during the 1960's and I guess you could also say that ST:TNG was "family friendly" as well by late 80's standards. I think the situation here is that the original creator has been gone for over 25 years so it's very easy for his original vision to be changed by others.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4331391 - 01/25/17 06:12 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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You cannot view a remake of a show based on what it was originally, but rather on the whole development and evolution of TV since the 80's and 90's. Probably starting with Married with Children, the Simpsons, Roseanne, Will and Grace...and most of what has come out in FX, television has been changed. Look how well shows like Game of Thrones and Westworld have done, and of course, these are geared to adult audiences. Even shows for "kids" like the DC and Marvel produced shows have adult themes on them. The "subtle message" formula in TV does not sell anymore.

Star trek was not only progressive for its time. It was current in the social themes it covered. Times have changed, so the themes.

The combination of explicit adult themes on TV shows with current events is what they are planning to portray, so it is the same formula as before, but the ingredients have changed. If that sounds to you as a "progressive agenda", guess what...so it did to a lot of people for TOS on the original run. It just looks innocent now, because those themes have become much less controversial. You could not do a TOS or a TNG these days and expect them to compete with the current shows. They will be seen as "boring".

But marketers have to sell, so instead of a making a different new show, they use the Star Trek name to bring you in. This is now called a "memberberry". A little morsel of nostalgia they dangle in front of you to make you believe that it is possible for past things to come back as good as they were in the past. The resurgence of JJ Abrams' Star Wars and the Trek movies are big glaring examples of the same thing.

It is OK if you do not like the modern take on the show and not watch it. The show is not for you. But it is pointless to complain expecting that it will turn back into something it cannot be any more.

Last edited by Bib4Tuna; 01/25/17 06:13 PM.
#4331395 - 01/25/17 06:24 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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+1,000 Bib. Excellent post.

Heh, "memberberry". I like that term.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4331407 - 01/25/17 06:56 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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I agree Bib, good post. I recall a sister-in-law of mine in the '80s commenting that she thought it was rather risque to show Kirk sitting on a bed pulling his boot on after being with a woman (that was in the "Wink Of An Eye" episode), and I think she probably wasn't the only one that felt they were pushing the limits there.


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#4331409 - 01/25/17 07:07 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Arthonon]  
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Originally Posted By: Arthonon
I agree Bib, good post. I recall a sister-in-law of mine in the '80s commenting that she thought it was rather risque to show Kirk sitting on a bed pulling his boot on after being with a woman (that was in the "Wink Of An Eye" episode), and I think she probably wasn't the only one that felt they were pushing the limits there.


I remember that scene quite well and yes, it was obviously insinuated that Kirk slept with her.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4331497 - 01/25/17 11:34 PM Re: Not looking good for Axanar [Re: Jayhawk]  
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Well good thing America has spoken. It's only a matter of time for the show producers to realize maybe many of us are sick of in your face, and subtlety might return.

I'm a little disturbed of some of the scenes in my latest novel, but they're there to sell to the current market, so I totally get what you're saying Bib. If certain elements aren't there, people will think it is "boring." I simply thing some shows have gone too far. I loved Game of Thrones, but I could have done without any of the "swordfighting," if you get my drift.

I'll read the reviews of the new Trek. As is, I doubt my daughter will be allowed to watch it--hell, I won't let her read this latest novel of mine, either. And that's okay, she's already seen some original series and Next Gen. smile

Last edited by Mr_Blastman; 01/25/17 11:35 PM.
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