I've sent a PM to Pol hopefully explaining that I in no way had any malice in my comments about the game\sim.

I also hope the members here don't feel that I have purposefully attacked the game and some how devalued the effort that's gone into it over the years.

I love WOFF as I said in my posts. I certainly don't want an arcade game either, if I did I wouldn't have bought all the releases\add ons and expansions that I have and will continue to do as they get released.

?.. Wodin, I for one certainly never thought you expressed any malice, only constructive criticisms which I'm sure we all appreciate. It is good of you to at least to provide this retort though as it shows your concern that things may not have been seen clearly. IMHO

You have nothing to be sorry for because you didn't do anything wrong. There is nothing wrong with constructively pointing out areas of improvement. Every single one of us that have done so have done it with a spirit of wanting to make WOFF even better. If your input hasn't been received in the spirit that it was given, then so be it.

No need to apologise Wodin comments are aimed at the thread at as a whole what the AI do or don't do.
When that AI Always Engages switch is off many factors are in play, including morale.

The whole ethos of WOFF is survival - AI especially - sometimes they do engage sometimes they won't sometimes a poor squad with poor morale and poor craft etc or other factors as discussed obviously will not engage in a campaign scenario and maybe even rarely, or never for you in a certain squad. They don't want to fight first they want to live first.

Last comment on this don't want to kick off the same thread.

OK cool Pol.

Thanks Rob and Bangoman aswell.

Wait a minute. Wait just a minute...

The below was called to my attention today. I had seen the original post but admittedly overlooked/misread Point #2, and I've not seen it mentioned elsewhere:

From WM:

"Here are OBDs plans for the future:

1) There will be ongoing addons for WOFF2 - this is a given.

2) We are working on a new non WW1 product - this is a given.

3) We are contemplating a WOFF Gold (WOFF3) and deciding what should be in it if at all."

Now, I might be the last to know, so please bear with me, but I am asking the devs: Any clarification regarding what kind of "new non-WW1 product"?

Like, WWII? I would be so happy I'd scream like a kid at Christmas!

I'd been flying CFS3-ETO, which some of these guys used to work on, but again, it has fight to the death and things like that; it's a freebee and I think current development efforts are lagging. Then I lost my cockpit sound somehow, and it seems to come down to a re-installation, which is a big pain in an area just south of my rear belt loop.

To have a WWII product of this level of quality and ease of installation would have me (and my Bf-109 loving brother-in-law, who can't fly...) turning handsprings.

I sure didn't take what Wodin was saying as a whine; I think the ability to be able to discuss things civilly is a hallmark of this particularly genteel group of simmers.

Hey, hey, there, there - I hope you can sleep tonight, Wodin.
Be assured, we all can tell a friend from a foe, I guess - and you are a friend surely!

Would love to know more about the non-WW1 product!

There is much choice on a WW2 combat flysim and I think the old CFS3 is rather limited for another 10 years, but who knows a nice pre WW2 racing game. Mercedes, Auto union, Bugatti and the Bentley boys.

That is pretty exciting, I'm quite optimistic about anything from these devs.

And Lagonda. Had a chance to drive a 34 Lagonda Rapide in a rally in 2011. Experience of a lifetime.

Do a space sim devs imagine a space sim with proper missions a "space war" going on around you..and Space sims are big news at the moment Elite Dangerous,Star Citizen,No Mans Sky Etc,go on WM and POL

I guess the devs won't tell in such an early state, or don't even know themselves, what they will go at.

In the second case, maybe you need some inspiration, devs?
Well, I am craving since many years for a good Pacific Theater simulation.
I mean, one with a really good single-player campaign.
Just my desire for something non-WW1...


Had to google that car; never heard of it before. Looks like a brother of a Bugatti?

How about a Steampunk Mech sim set during an alternative Great War.

PTO is my first choice. However, I realize the staggering number of different naval vessels needed to do it properly probably eliminates that theater. But, oh man, dive bombing? Torpedo bombing? CAP over CVs? CV campaigns? Henderson Field? Heavy bombers? Oh, man, the possibilities!

Plus, one of these:



*swoon*


Oh, well. Just gimme one of these, please:




And one of these:




And one of these:




And one of these:



WITH an option--for those of us living in countries where we are not terrified of legal geometric symbols that were crushed under our boot heels 70 years ago--to employ swastikas on German planes.

Of course, you could *really* surprise me and go this route:



Or--dare I dream it--

Well, I'm not sure what's out there for WWII as my experience base is quite narrow - but I know what ETO is like, and If these guys apply the same diligence & abilities to the original WWII European theater as they have to WOFF, it will transcend anything that I know of that's out there. But I'm willing to hear of options!

Now a WWII Pacific Theater from CFS3? It's been done, also by their former comrades, to some extent... but again, comparing ease of install and overall experience with WOFF, well, there is no comparison. The AI here is top notch, the scenery beyond compare, the work they've done on the damage models, etc etc etc...

Nice photos, JFM!

I know it's been done to death but I always like Battle of Britain. Though BoB2 does a great job in making a single player WW2 sim. So yes maybe Pacific War would be better.

Those are nice pictures JFM, but give me one of these instead.

Sweet!

I love this shot and all the right rudder:

Non WWI release ? What format if CFS then anything with large formations may not work. How about WWII ? in low number of aircraft at one time Flying Tigers or Britian Sqns in Burma ? or The land down under flying Lend Lease Old a/c 2 engine or one engine.


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Hahaha, you guys can dream faster than I can read...!

Well since everyone is throwing out SWAG's here I think it would be a big mistake to jump into the already well represented WW2 aerial combat market UNLESS the sim OBD gets into (and with what game/graphics engine?) does something really special to set it apart from the already crowded, yet limited market, genre.

WOFF in WW2 would of course be cool but would it be a big seller?

And based on the snail-like pace of WOFF development (and no offense intended I get the reasons) how long would it take to put out a well rounded product that will sell well out the gate? And it's going to be developed simultaneously with continuing WOFF stuff that's not exactly flooding my hard drive? And sell from the outset is a must if the goal is a marketable product that makes money.
I think the days of putting out half finished products, and then expecting people to jump on board with cash and time, is over in the jaded WW2 aerial market if the goal is high volume sales. Unless the intent is a work of passion and not economics.
Just my two cents...

@ Raine:
Nice. You know, most people don't realize, how fast some of these 20ies-30ies Cars are... until you fly past them with 200+ Kilometers on the Autobahn

If we are talking about Non-WW1-Air-Combat, there really aren't a lot of Options other than WW2. Personally, the early Jet-Age of the 60ies looks interesting to me... but I don't know of any Air-Combat in this Time...

I'm not tired of WWII at all. At all. That'd be like saying I'm tired of sex. But I *am* lonely for some Western Front action, since the Eastern Front has dominated for so long. Modern WW2 western front sims are significantly under-represented, beyond the Battle of Britain, which is just a small portion of the war. I thought I'd get the Western front itch scratched a couple years ago with DCS, but that's turned into an 80 dollar mistake for me--flying a P-51 over Nevada is NOT an ETO sim.

What if they just remade CFS3 properly? CFS3, OBD-style? Been so long since I've flown CFS3 I don't even really remember it. But they turned it into a fantastic WW1 sim. Could they turn it into a fantastic WW2 sim? Seems they could.

Plus, then:

It wasn't about "blame" Olham and I get what the point of a business is.
For you and JFM I like WW2 also - all I was saying is that it is already a crowded field and to break into the market (with the CFS3 engine) might be very tough...if the goal is to make a self-sustaining business. Is it going to be another game engine? I won't hold my breath for a top to bottom make-over at the current pace.

Personally I would really like CFS3 (or WW2 in general) to get the WOFF treatment I just wonder if that is a smart way to go...if the point is to make money?
There are a lot of good and pretty good sims out there already. For "WOFF WW2" what is going to break it out from all the others?
Again I repeat development time is critical in this day and age and that has not been a OBD strength but that is no ones fault just a fact IMHO.

Of course this is all idle talk as we have no idea what this "non-WW1" sim will be.

I repeat STEAMPUNK MECHA SIM set during an alternative WW1 thats gone on into the twenties and huge steam and diesel powered Mechs dominate the Battlefield. You are part of a Squadron so it could still be very much like WOFF but your controlling a huge Steam powered Contraption

Or using the WOFF engine and current visual assets but this time you manage the squadron, planning flights, carrying out High Command Orders, dealing with logistics, awarding medals, confirming kills, issuing leave\rest, making sure new pilots are getting extra training and assign them to some experienced pilot whose traits will have an effect on how the new pilot gets on, managing air crews and assigning air crew to each pilot, air crew all have skills and traits and gain experience which can effect the pilot they look after whilst in the sky. Make sure there is enough to do and plan and get involved in that will effect how your squadron performs. Onto the actual flight side of things you can watch your flight in game, the current J key setting is the actual way it would play by default.

Some good points, Duke. But I see a vast wasteland as regards the western front of WW2. Not as bad as the PTO, or MTO, but still. Wings of Prey lacks a cohesive campaign and Strike Fighters is "Sim light" and old as dirt. What else is there that isn't so old it was made for Win 98? That's not a challenge or anything. I could be clueless. If so, I want to buy what I'm missing!

With OBD, WM wrote, "this is a given." To me, that means it's already underway or plans are underway. I.e., they've already hashed over all this stuff long ago. Plus, "we are working on a new non WW1 product..." ARE working, present tense. Unless he doesn't mean what he says--and WM strikes me as a no-BS guy--wheels are already in motion. And my speculation is the comment "non WW1" is intentionally vague, so they aren't coming off any more info yet as regards a specific theatre or war.

In any event, please no tank sims.

I am always amazed, how long the devs can "keep their mouths shut" so to say - if I was in their shoes,
I would probably not be able for very long, to keep things like these new plans secret.
But I guess I know them well enough by now: they WILL keep it secret, until it is in it's final
stadium of development.
So our guess-work can continue here for many more pages - we will still be clueless.

But speculating is fun, isn't it?
Here is a well-made video about the "Flying Tigers" of Burma, to fuel your phantasies...

Hehe....diverging markets!
I, for one, would love a GOOD tactical tank sim covering both the Western and especially Eastern fronts. My grandfather fought on the Eastern Front for 4 years (as a side note my other grandfather fought in North Africa and Italy for the US of A). Fascinating theater and quite over looked by western readers. There was a paucity of info but that has been changing since the fall of the old Soviet Union. So much so that a lot of things people thought were always true (like the Germans could have relieved Stalingrad but for HQ interference or Citadel would certainly have succeeded in April) turn out to be apparently very incorrect...or at least need reexamination.

A modern Panzer Elite (the original!) would be cool.

JFM:

Of course, you could *really* surprise me and go this route:



Oh my LORD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In 2 weeks I can finally remove "Mig Alley" and finally lay it next to "Red Baron" and "Red Baron 3D" w/ "Full Canvas Jacket / Hell's Angels" addons.

plug_nickel

Olham,

This was it. It was a couples rally. Not at all competitive, just semi-organized drinking and driving in Sardinia. This is taken in the Gotthard, en route to Genoa.

Spot on, Wodin! 'Couldn't get much better than that.

Good going, Jim. You know how to wish big!

ps: 'must say, this has developed into an interesting thread, even though a totally irrelevant discussion. If the past is any guide (and it usually is) the Great Glacial Dev's have already made the big decisions and are now inexorably set on their path. What I wonder is, will they now get quit of the CFS3 engine? They got married to it in the first days of OFF, and once wed, no man could put asunder. But now they have a chance for a new, firey young thing. I don't know jack about gaming and game engines, but I've poked around at various programs that promise to explain it all...and don't. In the course of which, what I have found is that there are a lot of game engines out there waiting to be bought, leased or just downloaded. We've come a long way since CFS3. I'd be much surprised if the Dev's remained tied to CFS3.

Thanks mate. Yeah would be fun. You could keep the none combat aspect of WOFF as you've be in a Mecha Squadron.

I'd want the sim part dark and diry with mud a blood covered Mechas churning out smelly thick smoke. Have a detailed damage model aswell. Lots of different Mecha models for particular jobs, fast ones for recon, a wide range of different anti mecha mecha trading arms for armour or speed or size due to big heavy tech etc etc..the german mechas be brightly coloured etc etc..I'd have some powered by steam, others diesel and more advanced ones using Tesla. SOme are one man Mechas, others have upto say four men. Some on legs others on tracks.

Boy, it's a beauty! and someone let you drive this car? Is that you in the seat?
I wonder how it must feel to drive such a rarity I guess I would be VERY anxious to damage anything...

Yes. I'm the old ugly guy in the seat. It was a very generous and well-to-do Swiss friend with an amazing car collection who invited us to drive one of his cars. He drove a 29 Bentley. He was very trusting. The Lagonda has a centre throttle (left to right it's clutch, throttle, brake); an Armstrong-Whitworth pre-selector transmission, and purely mechanical brakes. Under the hood is a 4.5 litres inline 6 cylinder engine. Top speed is about 120 mph but the faster I did was 80 (120 km/h) on a wet autostrada. Terrifying but fun.

You know that's fishing for compliments to write such words, right?
But the res is too low, and you are too far away; so all I can see is, that you may not
be looking as unbearably beautiful as Beau Geste, but could be a British news moderator.
That is as much compliment as I'm willing to give.


Yeah, I believe that! Like flying a Spitfire too low, maybe!

Duke, didn't mean to rain on your Panzer parade! I've nothing against tank sims, I just dislike the recent trend to bundle driveable tanks within flight sims. Well, "dislike" is too strong. Disinterested is more like it. But I do dislike that any focus on tanks in a flight sim sucks focus away from airplanes. So whatever OBD does, hopefully any tanks will be AI only. Unless they actually are doing a racing game, then I could at least shoot the cars.

Oh I agree sir.
When a flight sim also tries to be tank sim (or vice versa) usually both suffer and none except the arcaders are happy.
Got to be one or the other and focus to make it good!

If it shouldn't be anything with realistic flying, I would not be there, I suppose.