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#4195102 - 11/16/15 03:05 PM Falcon BMS vs DCS  
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The best description I have read comparing the two is the following: DCS simulates flying a fighter. Falcon BMS simulates being a fighter pilot.

In DCS you learn to fly ac, including learning weapons systems, nav, etc. In BMS Falcon you do all of that, at pretty much the same fidelity level. Additionally, you participate in a long, persistant, dynamic war that plays out over weeks in real time. Your contribution (shooting down ac, bombing runways, blowing up bridges, destroying factories, etc.) plays a small part in the outcome.

It really comes down to what you are looking for.

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#4195116 - 11/16/15 03:21 PM Re: Falcon BMS vs DCS [Re: robmypro]  
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This thread wont make any sense biggrin


I5 8400 , 16gb , GTX 1070 oc , Win10 64bit . Virpil T-50 27" monitor with 2560x1440 rez ... DCS + Oculus CV1 + Samsung Odyssey . (odyssey is better for flight sims)
#4195124 - 11/16/15 03:39 PM Re: Falcon BMS vs DCS [Re: robmypro]  
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I'd disagree. So far there is no fighter (no modern one at least), so you only really learn to do CAS with the A-10C. You don't learn A-A, SEAD, DEAD, any sort of strike missions, interceptions, etc. like in BMS. True, you could take the F-15C up for a spin and learn solely A-A, but since it's an FC3 plane you don't learn a single system, just tricky keybindings for mundane things such as interior lights, etc.

#4195142 - 11/16/15 04:25 PM Re: Falcon BMS vs DCS [Re: robmypro]  
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I'm just getting into falcon and what draws me to it is the dynamic campaign that will be influenced by my failure smile and the feeling of being involved in a war especially when I read after action reports from other players, dcs feels quite stale and the only time I have had fun in multiplayer was with fellow SimHQ players on the server we use. It looks great but I also don't like how mixed bag the aircraft are in multiplayer.

Tonight I hopefully will start getting to grips with the viper

#4195147 - 11/16/15 04:38 PM Re: Falcon BMS vs DCS [Re: robmypro]  
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In DCS after a week you fall asleep from boredom.BMS you can play a dozen years.
Such is the biggest difference.

#4195161 - 11/16/15 05:22 PM Re: Falcon BMS vs DCS [Re: scrim]  
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Originally Posted By: scrim
I'd disagree. So far there is no fighter (no modern one at least), so you only really learn to do CAS with the A-10C. You don't learn A-A, SEAD, DEAD, any sort of strike missions, interceptions, etc. like in BMS. True, you could take the F-15C up for a spin and learn solely A-A, but since it's an FC3 plane you don't learn a single system, just tricky keybindings for mundane things such as interior lights, etc.


I agree about the lack of a study sim level fighter in DCS, but my comment about learning to fly an a/c vs learning how to be a fighter pilot in BMS is pretty accurate. Black Shark or A-10 are study sim level, but it is a pretty stale world vs. BMS.

BMS is such an amazing experience. And now graphics are pretty awesome, and FPS on my rig is 50-75 fps. which considering the crap going on in the campaign is pretty amazing.

#4195162 - 11/16/15 05:23 PM Re: Falcon BMS vs DCS [Re: jdbecks]  
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Originally Posted By: jdbecks
I'm just getting into falcon and what draws me to it is the dynamic campaign that will be influenced by my failure smile and the feeling of being involved in a war especially when I read after action reports from other players, dcs feels quite stale and the only time I have had fun in multiplayer was with fellow SimHQ players on the server we use. It looks great but I also don't like how mixed bag the aircraft are in multiplayer.

Tonight I hopefully will start getting to grips with the viper


It is an awesome journey. Have fun!

#4195163 - 11/16/15 05:23 PM Re: Falcon BMS vs DCS [Re: ]  
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Originally Posted By: XIII
In DCS after a week you fall asleep from boredom.BMS you can play a dozen years.
Such is the biggest difference.


At least you made it a week lol.

#4195171 - 11/16/15 05:38 PM Re: Falcon BMS vs DCS [Re: robmypro]  
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Am I being dumb? I have no training missions? Or do we download them

#4195175 - 11/16/15 05:48 PM Re: Falcon BMS vs DCS [Re: jdbecks]  
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Originally Posted By: jdbecks
Am I being dumb? I have no training missions? Or do we download them



Click on Tactical engagement from the top menu then you want the TRAINING tab.


'Crashing and Burning since 1987'
#4195207 - 11/16/15 06:40 PM Re: Falcon BMS vs DCS [Re: MigBuster]  
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Originally Posted By: MigBuster
Originally Posted By: jdbecks
Am I being dumb? I have no training missions? Or do we download them



Click on Tactical engagement from the top menu then you want the TRAINING tab.



Be sure you check the DOCS folder for the Training Script document. IMHO this has always bothered me in the Falcon series..the need to follow along with printed material for training.

As an aside... does anyone know what Aircraft/Block No. is represented by the Red White and Blue Training aircraft? Would like to cheat with the Avionics Configurator to add some things back to the HUD like the digital speed readout.



Last edited by Recluse; 11/16/15 06:41 PM.

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#4195210 - 11/16/15 06:50 PM Re: Falcon BMS vs DCS [Re: Recluse]  
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Originally Posted By: Recluse
As an aside... does anyone know what Aircraft/Block No. is represented by the Red White and Blue Training aircraft? Would like to cheat with the Avionics Configurator to add some things back to the HUD like the digital speed readout.


I think it is Block 15, but not sure.

#4195218 - 11/16/15 07:09 PM Re: Falcon BMS vs DCS [Re: Recluse]  
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Originally Posted By: Recluse
Originally Posted By: MigBuster
Originally Posted By: jdbecks
Am I being dumb? I have no training missions? Or do we download them



Click on Tactical engagement from the top menu then you want the TRAINING tab.



Be sure you check the DOCS folder for the Training Script document. IMHO this has always bothered me in the Falcon series..the need to follow along with printed material for training.

As an aside... does anyone know what Aircraft/Block No. is represented by the Red White and Blue Training aircraft? Would like to cheat with the Avionics Configurator to add some things back to the HUD like the digital speed readout.




Yes should be the F-16B Block 15 (PW-200 engine)

I use an iPad currently to keep and read all the docs on............although have just ordered a cheap (£99) Windows 10 tablet from Tesco here which will do the job even better.


'Crashing and Burning since 1987'
#4195238 - 11/16/15 07:36 PM Re: Falcon BMS vs DCS [Re: MigBuster]  
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Originally Posted By: MigBuster
Originally Posted By: Recluse
Originally Posted By: MigBuster
Originally Posted By: jdbecks
Am I being dumb? I have no training missions? Or do we download them



Click on Tactical engagement from the top menu then you want the TRAINING tab.



Be sure you check the DOCS folder for the Training Script document. IMHO this has always bothered me in the Falcon series..the need to follow along with printed material for training.

As an aside... does anyone know what Aircraft/Block No. is represented by the Red White and Blue Training aircraft? Would like to cheat with the Avionics Configurator to add some things back to the HUD like the digital speed readout.







Yes should be the F-16B Block 15 (PW-200 engine)

I use an iPad currently to keep and read all the docs on............although have just ordered a cheap (£99) Windows 10 tablet from Tesco here which will do the job even better.




Thanks!!! I realized that I could save the Training TE AS a regular TE and see the Aircraft description in the debrief..but now I don't have to!!

Yeah, electronic docs are better than printouts....

Last edited by Recluse; 11/16/15 08:03 PM.

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PowerSpec G436
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Flight Gear:

Cougar Hotas S/N 26453
Thrustmaster RCS Rudder Pedals

#4195330 - 11/17/15 12:15 AM Re: Falcon BMS vs DCS [Re: robmypro]  
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Can anyone comment on any difference between DCS and BMS 4.33 as far as multiplayer connectivity is concerned? The last time my squad tried to do something in Falcon, it was BMS but don't recall which version, it was pretty clunky or choppy. Not very smooth at all, to the point of making formation flying almost impossible.

One other question; how many humans can spawn on the carrier together if we were flying the F/A-18?


People in aviation who think they know it all, are particularly annoying to those of us who really do

Razor
Air Group 51
#4195336 - 11/17/15 12:28 AM Re: Falcon BMS vs DCS [Re: robmypro]  
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It all comes to the setting of the ports and addresses.For everything is detailed documentation, it is not that simple.
I have not played mp never, but I know that the correct setup takes a little time.
Besides, even every theater can have different settings for the ports and addresses.

#4195365 - 11/17/15 02:51 AM Re: Falcon BMS vs DCS [Re: robmypro]  
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I used to fly with 3 other guys, and if your internet connection was decent, it was very smooth. I am sure you could have quite a few people in mp, assuming decent connectivity. I think the rule of thumb was 250kbs per player, and the server should only allcate 75% of upload bandwidth to this. So, if the server has 4000kbs upload speed, 3000kbs could be dedicated to players. At 250kbs per, you could host 12 players online.

Last edited by robmypro; 11/17/15 02:59 AM.
#4195378 - 11/17/15 03:23 AM Re: Falcon BMS vs DCS [Re: robmypro]  
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Okay, since this topic is already being discussed....

Falcon BMS vs DCS

rob is correct in that DCS you learn the systems of the aircraft (DCS A10C for sure, no experience with the Eagle) and how to play with the toys, but that's about it. On the A-10C, sure, you can pwn the ground targets and it even came to a point that I would do a guns attack on a Shilka just for lolz, but once anything with more than 2 A-A missiles came around, you're in the weeds hiding and praying he didn't see you.

In BMS, simply because the aircarft is a multi-role aircraft, well, you get the best of both worlds. Want to pwn the ground targets? Sure! Want to drop LGBs from 20,000 feet? There you go! Want to ripple IAMs on 4-6 different targets on one pass? Have at it. But then if Mr. MiG comes up to play, you simply press a button (Emer Jett) if you still have bombs, then you flick a switch (CAT III to CAT I), and you can join Mr. MiG in the phone booth as well!


Then there's the theatre itself. In DCS, unless the mission creator has taken great pains to populate the world, it will feel really sterile. Even if the mission creator DID do the effort, at the back of your mind, you're wondering at which point will you step "out of bounds" and find yourself in an empty world.

In BMS, everything is simply "there." You might encounter a flight of F-15s on their way home as your own flight forms up for your egress. You might overhear a fight between different aircraft on your radio. You might notice a speck with four little specs in tow as you pass the tanker track. Further out, you might suddenly find yourself with bad guys on your 2 o'clock low. Did they see you? Are they in a position to fight? Or were they RTB? The theatre is alive. Things are going on around you that are not related to your mission, but may significantly affect your decisions during your flight.


All of that means that when you step into the F-16, you have totally different mindset. You are worried whether you've planned everything for your flight, yet you know you can't really plan for EVERYTHING. Your mission might fail, but you'll bring your flight of four back. Your mission might succeed, but you've lost Two on the ingress, Three is shot down behind enemy lines, and you had to escort Four to the divert airfield as he nurses his fighter back to the runway.

If you are tasked with A-G roles, sure, you need to be precise and on-time with your bombs, but what if your air cover gets jumped by a larger force? Do you abandon your mission and save your buddies? If you are tasked with A-A roles, you might find yourself with a clean airspace as a previous flight has taken care of the work for you.


TL;DR
BMS beats DCS simply because the Falcon is a multi-role aircraft and BMS has a dynamic, living theatre.

If DCS at least had a multi-role aircraft, like maybe the Hornet, there would be more competition between the two sims. As it stands, DCS is choking on the dust from the BMS team.


- Ice
#4195380 - 11/17/15 03:28 AM Re: Falcon BMS vs DCS [Re: VT-51_Razor]  
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Originally Posted By: VT-51_Razor
Can anyone comment on any difference between DCS and BMS 4.33 as far as multiplayer connectivity is concerned? The last time my squad tried to do something in Falcon, it was BMS but don't recall which version, it was pretty clunky or choppy. Not very smooth at all, to the point of making formation flying almost impossible.

One other question; how many humans can spawn on the carrier together if we were flying the F/A-18?


As this is a very old sim, there has to be certain things done in order to ensure smooth MP experience. "It's not Falcon if you don't do the dance." It's gotten to the point now that virtual squadrons not only have SOPs for the way they fly, they also have SOPs for the way they connect to the server and even for the way they DISconnect to the server.

Having said that, I used to fly on BMS 4.32 Update 4 to Update 7 on a virtual group that would see at least 8 guys on a regular "wing night," and 16 on bigger flights. On a monthly event, there could be upwards of 20 players.... max I've seen was about 32 players on one mission. That was so much fun, even if you only really see your flight and you only worry about your flight.... knowing that almost each F-16 in the sky is a human player was awesome! As for the connection itself, it was stable enough for formation flying and A-A refuelling although on the egress, the tanker decided to do an infinite loop so some players had to go to their divert airfield.

As for the F/A-18, well, I think the sim is still new enough that nobody's really tried to find the max number of Hornets on the deck yet.


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#4195399 - 11/17/15 05:11 AM Re: Falcon BMS vs DCS [Re: robmypro]  
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I do not understand why after all these years,
dcs developer does not feel the need to make dynamic campaign,
instead we get those static boring campaign.

Dynamic campaign is the reason why I still play bms, eech and ef2000,
and why I do not play dcs anymore.

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