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#4188928 - 10/31/15 01:43 PM Led's Claiming system...(not for everyone maybe)  
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lederhosen Offline
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Salute

We have all had problems getting obvious claims accepted. But this little system, based on honesty, may help. It may not answer every question but its simple enough to follow. I'll bet your "Hunting" style will change too.
have a read......


Points to remember:

It may not be prudent to just Shoot down the first thing you meet without enough/any witness present.

Following a wounded HA across his lines my not be a wise move.

You will have to be aware of just where the front lines are and where Ground Observers are too.

It may be better to locate and follow a HA until you are sure Ground Observers are present before you start your attack.

Pulling HA over your side of the lines may be better too.

Probable victory's are claimed with no witness given....so it may not go through.

This may not cover all situations, but common sense should guide you a bit.


Either way, these systems should alter your flying habits to some degree. I've followed them and found it works quite well. But you have to honest to yourself. You can only put in for claim when WOFF allows you to do so anyway.


For the purists out there this scoring system may come as a shock, with "oh no you can't do that..etc" But the system seems to work..for me anyway.

-First thing, in the workshop, Claims will have to be set to "Easy" (blank horror for some I know).
-Next you will need Fraps or something to that effect.
-And then the TAC is needed (ahhhh that cant be) set to 4km/2.2nm. This is your kneemap so to say.
With front lines and Ground Observation units etc.

Ground Observers are all units that show up on your TAC, even when set to look for just aircraft (i.e. Infantry positions, balloons, factory etc..). Trains, truck/tank columns and the such don't qualify as Ground Observers.
All witnesses must be seen (even if its just a corner of a position) within the TAC to qualify.


[Linked Image]


Claiming system for French Pilots.

2 seaters: both the Pilot and the Observer are awarded the victory.
No Shares.... If two or more pilots shot ONE HA down then they all could put in a claim.
No Probable victory. Crash was either witnessed or forgotten.
Must have at least one independent Witness.

A Witness included fellow Pilots in the air, Ground Observers..i.e. All Ground units that are present on a knee map (not trains or motor columns!).

TAC is to used to confirm a witness. Set to 4km / 2.2nm. Take a Pic (I use fraps) and make sure the witness can be seen within the TAC when HA crashes/lands.

Ground Observer witness HA falling in flames ............ +3
Ground Observer witness HA Explode mid air ............. +3
Ground Observer witness HA crash to earth ................. +3
Ground Observer witness HA Land behind friendly lines .. +3

You witness HA crash to earth behind own lines ... +2
You witness HA crash to earth behind enemy lines . +1
each Surviving Pilot witness ................................... +1

If score equals 3 or more then make a proper claim.

This allows the French a chance for offensive actions across the lines if they have the numbers (pilots) to witness victories. Generally a Ground witness was favored over Pilot witnesses.





Claiming System for the Hun.

2 seaters: both the Pilot and the Observer are awarded the victory.
No Shares.... If two or more pilots made a claim it was awarded to the Squadron.
Must have at least one independent Witness.

The German command was strict when it came to having a witness. HA shot down over enemy lines had to have a Ground Observer who witnessed the crash.

Ground Observer witness HA falling in flames .......+3
Ground Observer witness HA exploding mid air ......+3
Ground Observer witness HA crashing to earth ........+3
Ground Observer witness HA landing behind own lines ...+3

each surviving Pilot witness ...+1
You witness HA crash to earth behind own lines.....+2

** Over enemy lines **... If no Ground Observer present (TAC) then no claim can be put in..basta!

If score equals 3 or more then put in a proper claim.
If score equals 2 then make a claim without a witness. (allows probable victories on own side.)
score 1 or less then no claim may be made.

This should keep Hun formations and actions close to the lines. Going across to look for a fight is not going to add to your score if no Ground Observer is present. So deep offensive actions like the French and British had are useless to the Hun when it comes to scoring.




The British Claim system (or the real flying circus)

Must have at least one independent Witness.


A few words first regarding this service.

Shares: this is really a ww2 RAF thing. True that some RFC Squads allowed shares but it wasn't official in any way and not every Squad did. They looked at the fact that only ONE aircraft had been destroyed but 2 or more pilots claim they shot it down thus a decision had to be made. Depending on the C.O. It could be shared between the pilots, or, No Pilot got the credit but the Squadron did.

Sharing requires a bit of paperwork and recording events etc.. I do this by looking at the combat, dividing the victory by each Pilot present, and keeping track of my own fraction of the share, until I can claim a full Kill. When 1 kill is to be claimed you'll have to wait for the next combat and claim the next HA that you shoot down. You yourself will have to decide if your RFC squad will use shares or not.

2 Seaters: Again another decision your part. 2 Seater aircraft that only had the Observer able to fire at HA, then both Pilot and Observer are awarded the victory. Later when the RFC had aircraft that could fire through the air-screw then you will have to decide if you the pilot got the Hun with your front guns, or did the Observer finish him off. This is optional, as some Squads did this and others not. If not then both pilot and gunner get credit.

Offensive spirit: The RFC decided from the beginning to order deep offensive patrols. It wasn't very popular with the pilots. The Offensive spirit forced upon the RFC had to be rewarded in some way to keep the boys keen. And so the scoring system used by the RFC tended to be a little more relaxed when compared to other air services of the time.

Moral victory's counted well into 1916. The simple fact that you forced the Hun to abandon his mission was allowed to be used for a claim. Probables, Out of control, forced down.... all these sorts of claims were allowed and put in. Plus the RFC had one other advantage .... they did not require Ground Observation of a Victory! This allowed the Deep Offensive Patrols to be used and rewarded the "Offensive Spirit" forced upon all RFC pilots.


Ground Observer witness HA falling in flames ...+3
Ground Observer witness HA exploding mid air ...+3
Ground Observer witness HA Crashing to earth ...+3
Ground Observer witness HA landing behind own lines ...+3

You witness HA crash to earth own side of the lines ...+2
You witness HA crash to earth behind enemy lines ...+1
Each surviving Pilot witness ...+1
HA forced down (but not seen to impact) ...+1
HA out of control (but not seen to impact) ...+1
You witness HA land behind own lines. ...+1

Scoring 3+ put in a claim.
Scoring 2 then put in a claim with no witness (probable)
Scoring 1 or less then no claim put in.

As you can see, the RFC pilot doesn't even have to watch the HA go in. The simple fact that an RFC pilot believed the HA was doomed was enough when witnessed by others Pilots. The RFC pilot is free to go looking for fights miles over Hunland too. The RFC is also the only service allowing for HA being forced to land behind own friendly lines without Ground Observers. This, along with Forced down and OOC claims count as a moral victory over the Hun.





Another side note... Belgium: very strict indeed. No Ground Observation no claim..very simple. [u][/u]

Last edited by lederhosen; 08/14/18 06:08 PM.

make mistakes and learn from them

I5 4440 3.1Ghz, Asrock B85m Pro3, Gtx 1060 3GB
#4188970 - 10/31/15 03:55 PM Re: Led's Claiming system...(not for everyone maybe) [Re: lederhosen]  
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elephant Offline
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Sounds, interesting... lightsabers

Last edited by elephant; 10/31/15 03:56 PM.

WOFF UE, BOC member, Albatros pilot.

#4188997 - 10/31/15 05:03 PM Re: Led's Claiming system...(not for everyone maybe) [Re: lederhosen]  
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I like it.
I use a somewhat similar system based on .txt editing and %'s as in adding to the confirmation chance for a flamed over the front, etc.

#4189025 - 10/31/15 06:14 PM Re: Led's Claiming system...(not for everyone maybe) [Re: lederhosen]  
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Hasse Offline
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Sounds good to me, though obviously requires some extra effort! Maybe I'll give this method a try in one of my careers.


"Upon my word I've had as much excitement on a car as in the air, especially since the R.F.C. have had women drivers."

James McCudden, Five Years in the Royal Flying Corps
#4189062 - 10/31/15 07:49 PM Re: Led's Claiming system...(not for everyone maybe) [Re: lederhosen]  
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High over the Front
Well not to worry.
WOFF Gold will take care of all confirmation system concerns.

#4190924 - 11/05/15 02:36 AM Re: Led's Claiming system...(not for everyone maybe) [Re: lederhosen]  
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SSPEIPER Offline
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Having recently started a new career in the Verdun sector, I am
finding that I am becoming more and more frustrated with what
you would call obvious claims, i.e. your closest witness is close
enough to high-five in mid air and yet you have the claim rejected.

How are these calculated in game? Is there a proximity indicator as
to where friendly units are and whether or not it was brought down
over friendly territory etc....?

I guess I will have to persevere as I just cannot bring myself to
have easy confirmations ticked.

#4190967 - 11/05/15 06:41 AM Re: Led's Claiming system...(not for everyone maybe) [Re: lederhosen]  
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JJJ65 Online cool
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Good idea, lederhosen, I will surely look on it and test it. Maybe is time to check how it would be implemented into the WOFF.

Last edited by JJJ65; 11/05/15 06:41 AM.
#4455944 - 01/03/19 06:10 PM Re: Led's Claiming system...(not for everyone maybe) [Re: lederhosen]  
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lederhosen Offline
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lederhosen  Offline
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bump for those of us that feel....well of being cheated at claims time.

BUT BE HONEST or its pointless


make mistakes and learn from them

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#4455947 - 01/03/19 06:55 PM Re: Led's Claiming system...(not for everyone maybe) [Re: lederhosen]  
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JJJ65 Online cool
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From my point of view it is impossible to implement that idea without modification of WOFF UE source code that s reposnsible for claims confirmation. So, it would be possible only with help of DEVs.

#4455984 - 01/03/19 11:44 PM Re: Led's Claiming system...(not for everyone maybe) [Re: lederhosen]  
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lederhosen Offline
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errr its paperwork yourside....when your sure that U have 3+pts then put the claim in...or not too


make mistakes and learn from them

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#4456003 - 01/04/19 01:52 AM Re: Led's Claiming system...(not for everyone maybe) [Re: lederhosen]  
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S! This doesn't add anything to the conversation but lately my guys just don't file claims anymore. I am conducting an experiment. A Sopwith Tripehound pilot has 92 hours time. So far... nothing. No medals, no 'mention in dispatches'... nothing! He does have to 'lead the pack', now, I guess, because of his seniority. I was trying to avoid that. The 'pack' tends to fly off on their own even when the recall has been made. For that reason he likes to hunt alone and relishes protecting two-holers! His bunch hasn't lost one, yet! S!

#4456208 - 01/05/19 09:56 PM Re: Led's Claiming system...(not for everyone maybe) [Re: ARUP]  
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I like the system. I think it will make the game less frustrating. One modification that I plan to make is a -1 or maybe -2 if Flak is firing at the target during the fight. The AA batteries contested a good number of victory claims and won over the pilots claim. Maybe -1 if they are firing at higher altitude and -2 if they are firing at the target at low level.

Also, when I have assistance with a kill from an AI comrade (German) I will roll dice with him to see who gets the claim. Ernst Hess lost a number of claims to fellow pilots with the dice roll.

#4456421 - 01/07/19 02:34 PM Re: Led's Claiming system...(not for everyone maybe) [Re: lederhosen]  
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Becker01 Offline
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Very interesting Info about g. Unit as witness.

My 2 questipns:
What shall I write at wiitness? At First "no witness" because there was no flying witness or netter not? And then only ground unit or with sector, friendly/ hostile, timepoint, location, etc.?

What dies it mean? Score +3, +2, +1, ... (I'm sure it' s simple)?

Thanks för answer.

#4456429 - 01/07/19 03:53 PM Re: Led's Claiming system...(not for everyone maybe) [Re: lederhosen]  
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lederhosen Offline
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It's been a while since writing this and using it too !

But I'll try to remember as best I can.
The claim setting is on "EASY" which should mean that all claims put in correctly will go through.
That still means that YOU still have to claim the correct aircraft and use a witness if possible. If you have a wingman then use his name in place of "Ground/unit witness"
I have made claims without a witness and they too have been cleared as ok......but not all of emm.

After landing and arriving at the "claims page", take a moment and recap what you saw. If the score tally is 3 or more then put the claim in and you should get it.
But you have to honest to yourself . If total claims is getting to high then maybe every 3rd kill or so put a claim in.

Anyway... a few examples

Hun... I'm flying a recce in the Alsase when a French N10 decides to attack me.
We get into a fight, and my gunner wins this one, sending the Franzmann down in flames over enemy lines where he crashes.
I and my gunner are able to watch him crash too.

N10 in flames and ground obsever can see this = 3pts + Friendly observer witness crash = 3pts : total 6pts so I can put in the claim. I have no wingmann so it will have to be filed with no witness.
If the claim is rejected then perhaps a ground unit claimed they shot the EA down.....bugger!


RFC (real flying circus) in 1916

Lt. Hunks and 2 wingmen fly over Hunland a good 10km behind enemy lines.
They bump into a defenceless Av.B1 heading for the front. Hunks and his boys dive onto the poor blighter and down he goes, into a cloud bank and dissappears.
Fate unknown, but definatly out of control and at worst the Hun abandoned his mission...tally hoo.
All three airmen land safely and want to file a report.....

Both wingmen survived and witness the event = +2pts
Your sure he went down out of control = +1 pts
Total +3pts and so the claim may be justified and put in. You have a pilot witness this time.

The RFC pilot has a great deal of flexabilty in 1914-16 and can make outrages claims, which they did. But you also have the freedom to tailer AAR's to your way of thinking or humor.
Depending on the Squad politics you choose to play, then shares and such make the tally scoring much more fun.
But YOU will have to have real paper records to do the maths.
For this example you could also of said....
All three pilots fired at the Hun forcing him to spin out of control where he dissapeared into cloud...but definatly he must of went in.
So you only can claim 1/3rd of the victory, so no claim this time. Just write down 1/3 on a log/record book, untill you have enough to claim a full kill. Next victory put in a claim for a full kill.

Another possibilty: You attack and one of the wingmen is unfortunate and lands in Hunland. Your total score would be only 2pts. (pilot witness + HA OOC)
The RFC in 1916 can still put in a claim with only 2pts but with NO WITNESS, which is a probable, which probably wont got through


hope that's easy enough to follow.

Last edited by lederhosen; 01/07/19 04:49 PM.

make mistakes and learn from them

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#4456537 - 01/08/19 02:27 PM Re: Led's Claiming system...(not for everyone maybe) [Re: lederhosen]  
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Becker01 Offline
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@Lederhossen

Thanks and Aha!
It is for "Claim "Easy". I haven't recognized it really in your first text above.

#4457999 - 01/19/19 09:50 PM Re: Led's Claiming system...(not for everyone maybe) [Re: lederhosen]  
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Becker01 Offline
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Now I have tested "Claim Easy".
If you go with your Cursor to the claim-setting and to "Claim easy" you can read "Claims are on and are always accepted". And it is so!
After the mission the system says to you that you can make a claim now, If you have made a shot down. No matter which witness you take.
The difference to "normal Claims" is, that you can describe your shot down, but the witness has no important function.

Because you can change the claim-system during a current campaign it is a way to recover your nervs, if you are frustrated to much from normal Claims ... (smile and cheers).

In my opinion the normal claim is a real great Point!
And I don't decide an attack under claim-criteria. I attack, when I believe it is a good moment. If I have success I look around for a witness.


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