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#4184232 - 10/21/15 08:30 AM Ogre again  
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Well, sometimes it's back.

1. Download and install Microsoft Visual C++ 2008 SP1 Redistributable Package (x86)
2. Download EE demos Ogre package
3. Unpack it anywhere.
4. Run EE_OBJECTS.EXE or EE_TERRAIN.EXE there.
5. Choose Rendering Subsystem: Direct3D9 Rendering Subsystem, required resolution and full screen option, press OK.
6. Wait a couple of minutes

Esc - exit
WSAD,Arrows,PgUp/PgDown,Mouse (w/ or w/o shift) - movement/rotation
FGRT - misc options

EE_OBJECTS
.;[ (w/ and w/o shift) - change the first scene (look at top for its hex numbers).
/'] (w/ and w/o shift) - change the second scene (look at top for its hex numbers).

EE_TERRAIN
Use M and Shift+M to change the map number.


Suddenly I found Ogre uses right-handed coordinate system, now left and right are not swapped
Texture animations were improved (each scene has it's own body numbers, for example)
Rotors are animated by default
Weapons are not shown all at once
Some materials still need to be improved (glass is not reflective yet, have to find the reason).

Terrain uses fog
Sky is Ogre's one of defaults, it is not the one from EE yet.

#4184292 - 10/21/15 12:13 PM Re: Ogre again [Re: FireBird_[WINE]]  
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is it suitable only for rendering tests, so there are no any action on the scenes? have no free time right now, but will try it as soon as possible.

------------

everything looks good. finally there is no issues with z-depth for transparent surfaces.

Last edited by thealx; 10/23/15 08:42 PM.
#4185634 - 10/24/15 09:37 AM Re: Ogre again [Re: FireBird_[WINE]]  
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I hope I'll make test COHOKUM (demo mode only, no input) next week. Effects will not be present too. Just terrain and moving/animated objects.

As long as current source code has infantry mod inside, it will be required to have the corresponding resources (scenes, GWUT) installed. But for now that process is rather complex - 1.15.0, 1.15.2, 1.15.2FIX3 and infantry.rar. Maybe it would be easier to have just 1.16.0 installed.

BTW, I added Ogre build process description to the sources. Feel free to participate - there are a lot of "TODO" and "FIXME".

#4190760 - 11/04/15 07:56 PM Re: Ogre again [Re: FireBird_[WINE]]  
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I ever have dreamed of of EECH get a new graphics engine. So I just wanted to have a look on that OGRE stuff. If I have to have EECH installed to make it work? I got a cube.cpp error after waiting with a black screen. VC is installed.

#4190772 - 11/04/15 08:18 PM Re: Ogre again [Re: FireBird_[WINE]]  
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Surely beta version already runs on DX9, without any graphical improvements, but someday.... wink
The more that combat helo is definitely dead on the battlefield has been only EECH.

#4190989 - 11/05/15 09:49 AM Re: Ogre again [Re: FireBird_[WINE]]  
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What beta version do you mean XIII?

#4191009 - 11/05/15 12:46 PM Re: Ogre again [Re: FireBird_[WINE]]  
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http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3961554/Cockpits_improvement_program#Post3961554 here,but you no see any graphic improvement.Is the same eech,but on dx9 engine.

#4191171 - 11/05/15 06:51 PM Re: Ogre again [Re: FireBird_[WINE]]  
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if you talking about
Quote:
based on EECH 1.15.2FIX5 AND DX9 test version

it doesn't related to Ogre anyhow. it's just system changes that affects compatibly and performance a bit.

#4191313 - 11/06/15 01:26 AM Re: Ogre again [Re: ]  
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Originally Posted By: EagleEye[GER
]If I have to have EECH installed to make it work?


Sure. The demo uses original COHOKUM models and textures. So it looks awful. It's just a tech demo showing that it is possible to use Ogre for rendering of some EE stuff.
But until new models (with new materials) are released, there would be no significant improvement in visuals.

Well, I have EE version using only Ogre for rendering. It's veeeery limited in functionality, but it works.
But I got only 6 fps with that. wink
That's a veeeery long way to go to have EECH with Ogre playable. And it requires a lot of efforts. I doubt I alone can do that much.
80/20 rule - first 80% of work takes 20% resources and the rest 20% of work eats the rest 80%.

Originally Posted By: XIII
Surely beta version already runs on DX9


It runs D3D9 since May, 2014. One and a half year ago. And what?.. Nothing. Modders even don't want to add 3D needles to Havoc cockpit.

#4191470 - 11/06/15 02:01 PM Re: Ogre again [Re: FireBird_[WINE]]  
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Oh man, I wasn`t aware of a D3D9 version. My basic understand is that when there is a new DX version available anything should be working better and improvements would be much easier to to, because DX9 is more capable? Sure, 3D models would have been made new or to adjust. Could`t one use the 3D models from EE2, copyright issues put to the side?

thealx, what is holding you back from using the DX9 version? Just asking...

#4191505 - 11/06/15 03:14 PM Re: Ogre again [Re: FireBird_[WINE]]  
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^we cant use ee2 models without ee2 source code.Copyright issues is also problem.

#4191698 - 11/06/15 10:24 PM Re: Ogre again [Re: EagleEye[GER]]  
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Originally Posted By: EagleEye[GER
]when there is a new DX version available anything should be working better


No, it's just an interface.

Originally Posted By: EagleEye[GER
]and improvements would be much easier to to, because DX9 is more capable?


Right. D3D9 has shaders support, for example. D3D7 had not.

Originally Posted By: EagleEye[GER
]Sure, 3D models would have been made new or to adjust.


Who will do it? Will you? Will you hire someone to do it? I won't and I know nobody who surely will. Thus here we stand.

#4192619 - 11/09/15 01:38 PM Re: Ogre again [Re: FireBird_[WINE]]  
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I would have thought that when the DX9 version is the standard now, all work on terrain, trees and so on would benefit from it. And perhaps someone would start to make new 3D models? If not, the old ones would actually also work with DX9 interface, not?
What do you want to achive with testing it in OGRE, just asking?

Last edited by EagleEye[GER]; 11/09/15 01:40 PM.
#4192652 - 11/09/15 03:29 PM Re: Ogre again [Re: FireBird_[WINE]]  
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D3D9 is just an interface. The application's internal data structures were not changed, and the application doesn't benefit from D3D9 right now.
For example, EEO (3d models format) didn't allow shaders to be attached to the surfaces. And right now it does not, whilst D3D9 allows it. And there are a lot of such limitations in the application's engine.

Ogre conversion is an attempt to cut the knot - get rid of internal engine's structures completely. Old models will be loaded into Ogre, but also after that Ogre will load (and override) some of them with new ones in its own format.

Thus that's the case - at first EE should be learned to work with Ogre (with old models), and only than there is no problem to add new detailed models.

The tech demo I provide is an attempt to use EE data in the Ogre (which is a part of EE's Ogre's learning). And even at that stage there are some (still unresolved) problems. They are not of fundamental nature, just my own limits in understanding the entire process. And this case may be solved. As we say, one head is good, but two are anthropomorphic deviation better. Code first, models later.

#4193340 - 11/11/15 01:51 PM Re: Ogre again [Re: FireBird_[WINE]]  
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Thank you for the explanations. So the source code would have to be dramaticaly changed and the 3D objects format to, to have a benfit from the D3D9 interface?

I thought OGRE is "just" a 3D engine. But it would run EECH completely with its own programming language?

#4193435 - 11/11/15 07:19 PM Re: Ogre again [Re: EagleEye[GER]]  
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Originally Posted By: EagleEye[GER
]So the source code would have to be dramaticaly changed and the 3D objects format to, to have a benfit from the D3D9 interface?


We're talking about benefits from D3D9? The code change is rather local for that - only rendering part is required to be changed. Objects file format is a part of the rendering.

Originally Posted By: EagleEye[GER
]I thought OGRE is "just" a 3D engine.


Now Ogre? "Ogre conversion" and "D3D9 benefits conversion" are very different things. But all of them require efforts.
As for Ogre - as far as I know it is so. Third party library with rendering functionality.

Originally Posted By: EagleEye[GER
] But it would run EECH completely with its own programming language?


Sorry, I don't understand why the library provides its own programming language and needs to change the main application. Some terms are mixed probably.

Ogre is a rendering library, and is a valid replacement for EECH current rendering engine. Many "business" code of EECH (like cockpits functionality) uses direct calls to the renderer for several features. If the renderer goes to Ogre, those features will not be present in the library interface (but others will). So, we will need not only to replace the engine, but to change the current code to use different interface. That may lead to other things.

#4194022 - 11/13/15 03:42 PM Re: Ogre again [Re: FireBird_[WINE]]  
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About OGRE:
So porting it over to OGRE (if feasable) would mean to have a complete new render-engine, but to make that work with the "business" code of EECH is questionable?

About D3D9:
Wouldn`t it be much more promising to change the "business" code of EECH to work with the new D3D9 interface? Sure, to make the current engine benefit from it, would need additional work. You do not have to make EECH code to work with a complete new engine though, like OGRE would be, right?

I`m just interested in these things, I do not even have programming knowledge.

EDIT: Just re-read the Direct3D 9 conversion thread and saw that you were already working on EECH version with D3D9 with success. Can´t believe that this doesn`t moved further. Sure, we are lucky enough to have you guys still working on the old version though.

Last edited by EagleEye[GER]; 11/13/15 03:53 PM.
#4194121 - 11/13/15 07:50 PM Re: Ogre again [Re: FireBird_[WINE]]  
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Well, again I don't fully understand what the question is...
Yes, EECH uses D3D9 now, but it does not use its features. It works like old D3D7 one (mostly).

As for two projects "Ogre conversion" and "Addition of D3D9 features"...
Those are different in both "business risks" and potential gains.

Mister, you know, I'm not a real welder. (c)
That's why my understanding of "which features of D3D9 to add" is very limited. The working Ogre engine is someway already optimized.
Also, the current EECH engine, while using D3D9 interface, is designed for 15-years old GFX cards. I say more - not only engine, but models and textures. Rewritting the engine to be architecturally D3D9-capable would lead to something like Ogre anyway.

But yes, making several little steps are less risky than leaping.

But despite of all above, I saw no interest to both of these projects from the community. Well, even five years ago (that was the beginning of Ogre conversion) there was a lot of chat, but no deeds.

#4195018 - 11/16/15 10:33 AM Re: Ogre again [Re: FireBird_[WINE]]  
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Well, I do not have a question. I just wondered, like you, that community have no interest in conversion to D3D9. They still modding the objects, trees terrain and so on for the old engine. When I saw your thread about OGRE, I wasn`t even aware of test`s with D3D9 interface. I only come by here from time to time to see if someone took the huge task to "convert". It´s just my dream that community would come up with something like what the devs of EE2 have done. I would say that EECH with it`s campaign is still unbeaten and there is no other heli sim on the horizont which such a feature. I would certainly pay for a version with a new engine and all other changes that were made from Arneh, thealx and so on.


Last edited by EagleEye[GER]; 11/16/15 10:35 AM.
#4195037 - 11/16/15 12:23 PM Re: Ogre again [Re: FireBird_[WINE]]  
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What community?Now working only 3 people on eech. Everyone has great ideas,but 99 % of them will do nothing for eech.

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