Just some thoughts. There are a lot of people here wiser than me so any feedback would be welcome.

First off, is desire. We grow up and somehow the society influences our desires. What are the basics? Women, money, power... and whatever? I look at the society, it just pushes these so-called valuable things to pursue.

How about sex? I can't count how many people from other countries I met who practically desired/worshipped sex. One went further to push the desire down my throat saying you can't deny that you're like us. Yeah right! Recently a group of powerful people brought me with them and suddenly I was in front of dozens of beautiful women. They told me, "Just pick the one you want."

When it was at the palm of my hand, that's when I realized I really don't desire it that much and walked away from that group.

Money? The stock market means nothing to me. I'm defeating my associated index with little effort. Lessened the time I spend managing my portfolio. IMO if you encounter fund managers who brag that they can defeat the S&P500 or any other associated index for the fund, walk away. That's trivial. The society sells the notion that it's difficult. Don't believe them.

From the academic point of view, I'm no longer excited about any research papers in my field (mathematics). I read them and just roll my eyes and think, "meh" (see my sig). Sometimes this leads me to think humanity has no future. I have absolutely no intention of renewing my London mathematical society membership because absolutely nothing in the research journals seems worth it. When I was doing my dissertation I suggested something to my adviser. He showed me a book and at the end of the book, is exactly what I suggested. I have been predicting the path of theorems since college. If in a split second I can predict the next natural course of a theorem then anyone can do so. It is trivial. The society sells the notion that it is not.

At this point I decided to stop. Breathe. Think. What is wrong?

My answer is, all of these things I desired and think that are important were influenced by the society. So I told myself, "Remove the society's influence and try to find out what you yourself desire. Stop pretending to value what others do. What is really important to me?"

Then came the answer.

"Nothing."

Most of what I did since I was born, it was because of other people. They were for other people, mostly for my parents or friends or relatives or maybe just because the majority thinks it's worth doing. Even art and music, they were to entertain other people, not myself.

I realized that if you don't value your life, that if you don't value anything, you definitely won't value other people's lives or their works or whatever they hold dear.

What makes you go on? What do you see here that's worth it? Why? Why do you struggle when we all know in the end everything just fades to oblivion?

end

42

If God has a message for me, "We apologize for the inconvenience."

I can honestly say as Marvin did, "I think, I feel good about it."

Each of us is different, so what serves as purpose for each of us varies from one person to the next. I can not authoritatively know what, if anything, will fill you with a drive to accomplish something. There are recurring generalities in human behavior though that might offer a clue.

Humans are generally social creatures. It is easier for us to survive and thrive in groups. That is not say that all humans are good at group participation, or inclined to try.

Examining one's own motivations is a healthy thing. In the context of your relationship to a given group, are you motivated to participate, or even excel, out of a wish for approval or acceptance... or perhaps because you wish to contribute to the group's well being / progress (even if they don't recognize it at times). Often times, it is some of each. Finding a healthy, feasible balance in that can make a world of difference. To be healthy and fulfilled, you have to live your life for yourself, but (I submit) not entirely for yourself. Likewise, (I submit) it is not healthy to live your life entirely for others. It is good to devote some of your efforts and thoughts to others... the key is choosing who those others are, and how much of yourself you spend on them, wisely.

Probably the most common of significant motivations is associated with family... a spouse and children. It is a means for people to pass on part of themselves to hopefully go beyond that oblivion that your referred to. We all know of stories of supreme self sacrifice that individuals have made for their children and/or spouse. But there is more to it than that. Look around and you see people are actually sacrificing/struggling on a daily basis for those loved ones, too. Showing up for work when they would rather be doing something else, forgoing some desired thing(s), so that their family can have a better future, etc. Part of what makes that worthwhile, is that if you have a spouse that you love deeply, and who returns that love to you... is that you know they are willing to make those same sorts of sacrifices/struggles for you. That you are not alone, adrift in the sea of life.

Yes, there are plenty of people who are obsessed with sex to the point that it prevents them from moving on to something much more fulfilling. Sex feels great, but as you evidently realized, sex without love can be unfulfilling. There is so much more that can be had beyond that.

Going back to your closing question:


That "everything just fades to oblivion" is a premise that is not shared by everyone. I don't know what you believe regarding the existence of God. It may be time well spent to re-examine what your beliefs are, and why you arrived at that conclusion. Those beliefs can have a major influence upon your world view, and your view of what your place in the world properly should be.

From an athiest point of view, we struggle because everything fades to oblivion. If you have to go, do the best you can to make your own life and that of others better. It's not necessarily earth-shattering impact, but I place a lot of meaning in the notion that you only live in the memories of others. Make them good ones.

I don't need a God to justify that approach, but the intent is not dissimilar to those who draw upon their faith for purpose and meaning in life.

What is important to me? Me.

Who I am, what I am, and what I am doing is important to me.

Who am I as a father? As a husband? As a co-worker? As a gamer? If I'm not happy with the answers to that, I am not happy with Me. And that pushes me to improve.

Why do I struggle when all this will disappear when I am gone? That is not true. My children will be a continuation of Me, as I have impressed on them as a father. My workplace will be a continuation of Me, as I have changed it as a worker. The gaming community will be a continuation of Me, as I share the joys of this hobby with others. A very good example of this is PositiveG who many still remember years after his passing.

Just last night, I finally wrapped my head around A-G attack profiles and have had lots of fun flying tight circles at the KOTAR range in BMS. We were just dropping training bombs, no threat, no scores. But we did it as tight as possible, tried to do the correct calls, and went home. A few mistakes during the range work, embarrassing ones during the RTB, but learned lots, I was happy with my performance, and finally ticked that one off my list of things to wrap my head around. We did the debrief, learned loads from THAT one, and this was even before we looked at the ACMI files. Also during the flight, I identified a few problems with my BMS Helios profile so I worked on that afterwards, going to bed in the early hours of the morning. All these might fade into oblivion, but I'll sure have fun along the way!

I don't think about tomorrow, there's just here and now. Take each moment as it comes, enjoy a holding a puppy. Watch and play with a cat (sometimes people who can't relate to other people find a lot of solace and comfort with animals). I could relax and enjoy music for hours. None of these things are a means to an end but ends in themselves.

People feel discomfort to think that the party goes on after they leave- but I think it would be worse for them to watch their own health decline and people around them begin to disappear first. When you go, there's nothing for you to worry about anymore.

I don't have belief in an afterlife- just like before I was born, nothing. I don't feel distress at all, I didn't feel anything for the ocean of time before my birth when I had no consciousness then. Not at all the most painful thing a person can endure compared to what life can do. I prefer it that way- I would not want to live on for eternity under someone else's rules forever. I can't imagine that, and I don't want it.

This individual however may want to consider seeking professional help. Just get an opinion or two. Rather than tick off a list of everything he doesn't like (which is already approaching it from a negative start and proceeds from there), make a list of the things he does want. If he could have anything he wanted in life, that is, if you could wave a magic wand and make anything happen and still nothing comes to mind (not even something small like a slice of pizza if nothing big comes to mind at the moment), really think about what that may mean- can't appreciate even the little things, which is what life is mostly day to day. To have no interests of course makes life seem pointless by default. So, if there's a block happening there, maybe talking to a professional may feel like it's making progress of some kind without just floating aimlessly.

But don't get thrown off of sex just because it's presented in a way like that, either. I wouldn't necessarily be turned on by having sex handed so easy like on a platter, I like to work for it. Sex isn't so much a goal as it is the process to get there- having fun in the process.

The way I see it, at the end of the day, life is an 80-year slice of being from a pre-rolled dice (give or take) that, given the hand you're dealt, you have to figure out the rest from. Some people find it in sex, some people find it in family, some people find it in greed or greed management (okay, that's a bit harsh), some people find it in art, music, and and an infinite variety of things and combinations.

What keeps me going is a bit of selfishness, and I guess a deep rooted ambition that is separate from my day job. I have a fairly technical daily grind which, while interesting and involving, as well as being around people of whom there are no arseholes between them, doesn't really drive me *that much* - I always was a plane person, and here I am working on cars. Work gives money so that I can do stuff outside of work.

So my day job is very technical, as I guess yours is too. Day job gives me money to do other things; I'm in a pretty good place with a pretty good margin, so I get to do crazy things like blowing money on photography, woodwork and music tools. The first two are more recent hobbies of mine, but one where I have much stronger ambitions is in music. Before I die, I intend to hire an orchestra to play crap I've written, but I still got 30 working years to save up for that. I'm lucky; I know what I'm going to do after (early?) retirement. I just need to figure out how to stay interested. Sometimes I end up in an existential funk, devoid of interest or emotion, but when I'm able to get something together, it renews my self-worth (as well as my "grass-is-always-greener" problem, but that's something else...).


At the end of the day, the bottom line is self-satisfaction, and that is a very individual and selfish thing. Some people get all the satisfaction they need from their day job; other people get it from their hobbies; other people get it from family, or helping society, or any combination of things.

If you have a similar view to mine, then yeah, after your time is up, you beef it and that's that. Whether you left a mark on life or society or even history is almost irrelevant to you at that point, because you'll be in that box six foot under. So, if you rationalise it in a certain way, it's almost a moot point - you never break even; the house always wins. I know a lot of you chaps on here have a different view of the end-game; that's great - to each their own. But, how you walk that path from cradle to grave, well... that's the trick, isn't it?

Having recently been diagnosed with a serious illness, I have decided to just try to enjoy what I can out of life. The little things in life are actually huge. Playing with a puppy, or a real good slice of pizza are great examples. Heck just feeling the warmth of the sun on my face can bring me joy now.

oselisan, you sound like you're suffering from depression.

E.O. Wilson's theory of sociobiology might shed some insight.
being an island is not all it is cracked up to be.

'One went further to push the desire down my throat'

eewwww

You think too much old chap; but then you are a mathematician and therefore weird (just joking with you mate :))

It does sound like a textbook case of depression. Nothing appeals, so you don't want to do anything. Everyone should want to do something, at least more than half the time. It may not be practical, it may not be possible, it may not be logical, but it should be there. If it's not, your brain is misfiring. Maybe you need to change your diet, get some exercise, talk to someone, or worst case take a pill or two to try and get your brain back in balance.
Keep in mind for many people it's not "if I start taking these I'll need to take them forever", that's like saying you have to wear a cast forever because you broke your arm. You just need the help to get going again. That said, there are some people who will need it always or they return to the previous undesirable state.

Maybe you don't want sex or love. It's not common, but it's not bizarre. Yet you should want something. Travel, foods, entertainment, work, some sort of hobby.

Either way, you should consult a doctor.



The Jedi Master

Such questioning of the world runs the risk of receiving
answers, perhaps of unanticipated content...

Thinking about desire and its root is a good thing.
There is much insight to be gained. What is the nature
of reality? What do you really know for sure? What does
it mean to exist? The fact that the universe exists makes
it beyond logical understanding - logic can only work
with the implications of items and relationships which
already exist; it can't offer insight into how existence
is possible in the first place; and our bias in favour of
viewing the world through the tool of logic makes this
seem wrong - that the universe shouldn't exist, because
its existence makes no logical sense.

But, yet, it does. And, I will assert: that the universe
exists, and that you are conscious at this instant, are
two different ways of saying exactly the same thing. If
you want to gain a grasp of the nature of reality, your
best path is to introspect on the nature of your consciousness.
But understand that consciousness is not thought, nor is
it experience; it is that which thinks, and experiences.
To get a true handle on consciousness, stop thinking, shut
off all experiences as best you can, and observe what is
there, when the rest of the details of the melodrama of life
in the world are quelled. Just be still, and see what you
find; but be honest, simple and sincere in your effort,
not frivolous, nor cynical, nor half hearted. If you find
yourself thinking, you can use the method "who is thinking this
thought?" to chase down the centre of consciousness, the slippery
point which always seeks to efface itself in favour of the
details of the experiences of the world.

You may be fortunate to discover that there is a most curious
form of nothing at the centre of consciousness, a nothing which
is yet somehow full of the most tangible serenity, which can
illuminate and inform your life in the most improbably powerful
ways. Where you go from there, is up to you. The world is a
strange place, full of paradox, maybe more full of paradox than
of anything else. Above all, it is to be discovered, and its
nature is accessible to discovery. Just avoid self deception,
and the easy route of abdication to someone else's map of
the nature of the world. Rely on your own judgement, your own
experience, because it is your own personal consciousness
which can open the way to a real understanding, so you can
name it and regard it how you choose.

You will never be happy if your main concern is yourself. Make the purpose of your life serving others and you will be much happier.

I wish I could make it a more eloquent statement but I cannot. If you really want help, and aren't depressed (if you are you need to go to a doctor, please) then the best guidebook for a happy life is The Bible.

Get better.

+1 go see your family doctor

Hi all,

Really lost but felt the need to drop by and show appreciation for all the wise replies. Read all of them and each one touched a point I need to think about seriously.

LB4LB I'm sorry to hear that and as much as possible I don't want to cause offense that I'm belittling things people value very much (and are fighting for).Just recalled the time I caused offense to a few professors because I honestly muttered that my dissertation was worthless. (even though it was given an unusually high mark, face-palm for people skills)

Got in touch again with an artist who is encouraging me to do some artwork. Perhaps this could help temporarily. (My mind tells me, "Great, now you're down to making up stupid noises, scribbling nonsense and drawing stupid stuff.")

Thanks all.

Doctor Dart prescribes a BJ and a steak dinner.

What is the point to all of it? There isn't one, so just have a little fun and don't worry that you've stopped buying into the hype.

You're right, money is just a tool; power, as perceived by the people who chase it, is fleeting; achievement, if it doesn't satisfy, rings hollow after time.

Not to say they're not important, it's just that they're fixed in time and place. You look at past papers and go "meh" because the moment's passed; it was valuable at the time but you're not in that place any more (and you shouldn't be). You shouldn't denigrate it, though; past you valued them and due respect should be given, as Mr. Past You was a pretty neat guy doing neat stuff. And he got you where you are today.

Making up stupid noises, scribbling nonsense, and drawing stupid stuff is actually time well spent. Assuming you're in a funk and not truly depressed in the medical sense, take your perspective that the norms you've been exposed to as being ridiculous illusions as freedom to enjoy yourself.

Don't look down at those chasing the illusion, though, or worry too much about them versus you. It's their thing, let them do it. I wouldn't, for example, go to a furry convention but I make no judgement on those who do.

I'm convinced that if a person with the basic needs taken care of wants to be happy they can be happy. Not necessarily skipping through the park singing happy, but content and pleased with things.

With depression, you DON'T want to be happy, if anything you revel in your misery. That's when you know you need some help that you're unable to give yourself.



The Jedi Master

Someone mentioned petting a puppy...

Rescuing two Jack Russell's (our first dogs, both were around a year old) has overall been a very positive experience for us. Suzie (you see in a lot of my pics) was found wandering a Burger King, full of worms and unclaimed. Ralphie belonged to the teenage daughter of my wife's co-worker, frequently abused by her boyfriend (it's likely that alcohol caused permanent liver damage) and was living in a cage in her bedroom closet. I remember going to their apartment to pick him up, the whole thing was so sad (even for the original owner, her boyfriend would later make the Jax, FL local news for a double homicide.).

Ralphie was given an expected lifespan of maybe two years, even with prescription KD dog food and treats. He became really sick within the first couple of weeks we had him, we didn't think he'd be coming home alive. It's been 7 years now and he seldom has a bad day anymore. Every morning he wakes up yawning and then "swimming" across the bed is a good day.

Ralphie was the reason I started walking (when I could hardly walk to the mailbox) and today keeps me honest with any late-night snacking (always follows me to the kitchen, he can't have anything and so we suffer together while I only drink a glass of water).

I'm not saying we'd do it again because it's hard at times and expensive, but we knew when he got him that we'd never give him up, neither dog (just know that Jack Russell's probably shouldn't be a first dog). It does make you feel good to save a dog's life and they show their appreciation in their doggy way.