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#4177530 - 10/05/15 11:00 AM Defiant - guns firing forward  
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Moggy Offline
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Moggy  Offline
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A slit trench at RAF Gravesend
https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xt...amp;oe=56903121

It appears from this snippet from the Defiant training manual, that the Defiant's guns could be positioned to fire forward, albeit not quite horizontally so that they fired over the prop, and be operated by the pilot.

Who knew?

Last edited by Moggy; 10/05/15 11:03 AM.
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#4178362 - 10/06/15 09:32 PM Re: Defiant - guns firing forward [Re: Moggy]  
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PeterMBooth Offline
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Hi Pete,

I knew that there were two retractable fairings on either side of the turret - the rear one folding all the way down and the front one partially as in the new Airfix kit. Once they were lowered in flight, apart from the vertical tail and the prop (covered by an automatic cut-out mechanism) the gunner had full 360 degree traverse and firing arc though when firing forwards the guns had to be elevated somewhat I guess to clear the cockpit and/or not shoot the prop off - same with the Blackburn Roc. No reason why the barrels could not be pointed so that they were either side of the canopy pointing forwards with just enough elevation to clear the prop but I had never heard about them being operated by the pilot. However, re-reading the Mushroom book on the Defiant and Roc I find it does say that if the gunner was hit he was supposed to swing the turret round until it was pointed forwards, elevate the guns to 19 degrees to clear the prop and press a switch to transfer control to the pilot. The old complaint about the fault with the turret fighters was a lack of forwards firing armament is perhaps therefore not quite true, as the pilot could in theory fire 4 Brownings forwards, but did he have a gunsight which allowed for the 19 degree elevation? Your article does not mention that aspect.

Having said that Clarke's book "British Aircraft Armament - Turrets from 1914 to the present day Vol 1" acknowledges that there was a "pilot" position on the gunners 3 position selector switch but says that it was never used and was therefore disconnected! The other two positions were disengaged (off) and gunner.

You learn something new every day - thanks mate.

Pete

#4180017 - 10/10/15 11:54 PM Re: Defiant - guns firing forward [Re: Moggy]  
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Moggy Offline
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A slit trench at RAF Gravesend
I find it remarkable they did not experiment with at least two fixed forward firing guns in the wings, to enable the pilot to defend the aircraft against frontal attack.

#4180881 - 10/13/15 03:24 AM Re: Defiant - guns firing forward [Re: Moggy]  
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453Raafspitty Offline
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#4181440 - 10/14/15 11:43 AM Re: Defiant - guns firing forward [Re: Moggy]  
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PeterMBooth Offline
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Pontypridd, South Wales,UK
Hi Spitty,

About 50 years ago I had a copy of the early Airfix Magazine in which they had articles on various aircraft. One chap who flew the Defiant said that it would have made a good light bomber, possibly better that the Fairey Battle. He also said it could have handled some forward firing guns and that it would have been nearly as quick as a Hurricane if the turret was removed, though a bit less maneuverable.

Yes they did get a few kills but as with the Blackburn Roc the concept was flawed. The designers were apparently thinking they could get into bomber formations without having to worry about the escorting fighters, and that rarely happened in daylight, though they did better at night in that respect. Osprey Aces 105 is quite informative on this subject.

Pete


With increasing age should come wisdom and tolerance, but as the saying goes, "there is no fool like an old fool" as I prove regularly!


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