Dan, if I may add to Lou's excellent advice. Try a Pup against DII's. The SE is also a stable mount, which you have found out. Trying the Snipe or Camel early on is guaranteed frustration as they are very touchy aircraft. Deadly once mastered but save that till latter. If it makes you feel any better, I have been flying a long time and my accuracy is around 18%.

Dan,

I'm still fairly new, but as far as accuracy goes I'd say wait until they "fill the windscreen." The closer you are the less chance you can miss. The spread of the relatively inaccurate machine guns might not allow for long range shooting. I'll reference you this quote from Manfred von Richthofen himself:

"I give a short series of shots with my machine gun. I had gone so close that I was afraid I might dash into the Englishman. Suddenly, I nearly yelled with joy for the propeller of the enemy machine had stopped turning. I had shot his engine to pieces..."

Here's the website for reference lest you think I'm just making it up. http://www.richthofen.com/08.htm

Now...take everything I said with a grain of salt as this very morning I killed two pilot's careers in Nieuports by ripping the lower wing off in a dogfight, so clearly I have much to learn myself.

Thanks for the tips and encouragement fellas. After a couple more hours things improved a little. Taking the advice I tried a Pup against a DII then a DIII a few time is QC mode. Died twice, but through stalling and spinning rather than being shot. 3 times I managed to get a few shots in, at which point they turned and ran. It only seemed to take 2 hits (as registered in the details after report) to cause this. Getting better at the handling, but it is a harsh history lesson in how hard those planes were to fly in combat. I go 'Over G' and 'Over Speed' a lot just trying to follow their maneuvers, resulting in plane damage and often crashes. I tried to be gentler on the stick, which works when they are not dogfighting, but unless I pull some moves, mainly trying to mimic theirs they just end up behind me.

I learnt that the DH2 is a travesty of aircraft design, the thing just wants to fall out the sky and jerks about all over the place at the slightest touch, try to put the nose up more than a tiny bit and it stalls. Appalling aircraft. I really cant believe guys used to actually fly these in combat.

I also tried the Bristol Scout & B12 out, but found it very disconcerting to have the gun off to one side. The B12 I found utterly unusable as the gun is so far out that even with trackir it is not possible to lean far enough over to sight it, and the 'tracer' is not visible. no idea where that even fires.

The Nieuport 16 was another experiment, but that was also a nightmare, there is next to no forward or upward visibility in that thing. such a tiny resticted view.

The Neiuport 17 and Sopwith Pup are both great, as well as the aforementioned SE5/a - It has been a lot of fun and frustration to spend a day playing through 3 years of aircraft designs, but those early planes are truly awful.

Welcome to the War, Dan! You are right: most of these planes are hellish to fly. Under-powered, touchy in the extreme on the controls, liable to stall, and/or, spin without warning. Pilots who flew the DH-2 called it the "Spinning Coffin". Fifty percent of the pilots who got in a Sopwith Camel died in Flight School. I nearly gave up on OFF until I got in an SE-5...good ol' stable SE-5. Albatross's aren't bad. Fokker D-VII's are great, as are the Sopwith Pup and the Pfaltz D.III. Find a couple of planes that work for you, get good with them. Practice your gunnery. Then, one-by-one, add more planes.

The Se5 is a real slayer.
One of my favs. Course I got a lot of favs. But it is probably #1.
If only I would win the Lotto and could become a professional WOFF'er!

.



Dan, you may find the following instructional video helpful as it concerns the 'Spinning Incinerator'. While this is from OFF the DH2 in WOFF handles the same, at least in my experience.



.

I recently found these tutorial videos by "IRFC Requiem" he posts for another sim but the basics are the same.
Check some of them out he seems to be a good teacher
https://www.youtube.com/user/Requiem10NS

Regards
MarkL

I have some WOFF/OFF specific tutorials that I will make available as soon as I get back on Oct 4th. I will post a link here for you.

Hey Dan - don't give up
The learning curve is still somewhat vertical for you at this point, but it does ease off soon

Let's deal with things one at a time (not necessarily in order)


Absolutely - I tried the DH2
My typical encounter went - roll, bank, drop like stone
Amazing to think that Fourteen aces scored five or more aerial victories using the DH2
By the way - RAF_Louvert - that video of you in the DH2 in OFF is astonishing, good work with the very limited machine you were flying


Hey - if you can hit anything with the gun on the Bristol Scout you are a certified genius in my book



I thought I would love the N11 and N16, but found the combination of wing mounted gun and 'shooting through a letterbox' forward canopy way too much for a newbie like me to deal with
Shame, because other than that they seem like quite nice aircraft to fly


As you have found - the Pup seems to be a good aircraft to learn on (also probably the N17 - haven't tried it myself)
Definitely not the Camel

I would check your deadzone and sensitivity of your bank and pitch control in workshop settings
I think when the game installs they default to really high values
Scale (Sensitivity) 64
Nullzone (deadzone) 36

This gives you a really big deadzone where you are pulling the stick but feel like you are getting no response, you pull it more, get out of the deadzone, then all of a sudden the high sensitivity gives you a LOT of response and you are stressing the aircraft

I put mine on
Scale 34
Nullzone 16

Try these values (or similar) and after a bit of time I think you will find your flying getting a lot smoother

Smoother is key
You will find you can actually pull quite hard with these birds, if you ease into it - then tighten up
Just yanking the stick is a recipe for disaster

By the way - Hellshade gave me a good tip
When pulling into a high G turn, lower your throttle to tighten the turn radius, and lessen the stress on the wings

Lastly - Gunnery
I was generally firing from about 100 yards
And my hit rate was always about 5-8 % - Not great

Then - one one patrol - I accidentally got far too close to an enemy EA (or so I thought)
I misjudged the speed and ended up about 50 yards behind him

One quick burst at that range and he went down like a rock

Seems the secret is getting very close

But the difficult bit seems to be - getting that close

Don't feel too disheartened Dan

It is about to get very, very good

Sorry Mark - looks like your question got missed

I think the mouse look files are in this thread somewhere??
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3876639/Mouse_look#Post3876639

Hey Dan!

Don't give up!

Let us know how you are getting on

Don't worry Max, I haven't quit. Just very busy. I don't really get time in the week for electronic entertainments. What with working full time, studying part time, piano practice, fitness routine and the Mrs... by the time I was 'free' every night this week I was so shattered I was in no state to 'fly' - I will hopefully get some time tonight and over the weekend.

Thanks to you and the other posters for advice etc. Will update with progress later

Sorry for hassling you Dan

I had a few (or more than a few ) beers last night

After many beers my friends tell me I get 'over-enthusiastic'

Or 'pushy', as it is otherwise known

See you when we see you

Dan I find the Pup, Se5a and Brisfit the easiest planes to fly for the Allies. Oh also the Sopwith Tripe and the Camel are useful aswell. For early war fun I like the Airco.

Germans I go for an Alb DVa (though happy in any Alb)or a PflazDIIIa.

Remember it wasn't until '16 that dogfighting became common, infact really late '16 and early '17 it started in earnest. So I wouldn't bother to much flying pre summer of '16 if your after some action.

I to find the Nieups visibility to real pain and the Spad is another.

As for fighting..get in close and I mean close, I wouldn't bother firing until your under a 100 yards away. Really need to be in at 50 or so.

Finally for early planes be gentle on the stick. You can't yank the stick around otherwise you'll stall and spin. You have to be gentle on it in the turns. Don't fret because the enemy has to aswell.

Not at all Max. I did not perceive it that way. Your suggestion of the controller sensitivity changes was brilliant. I had thought it was the cheaper Joystick that was causing the issue! - you were right on every count in your hypotheisis. Flying much improved now the deadzone has been reduced. I am now actually able to side drift/slide using stick and rudder (which I also adjusted to same settings), accuracy has jumped up and handling is vastly improved.

Yesterday evening I was only trying the various planes out on a turkey shoot against a single AviakII - but at least I can now consistently shoot it down with 15-25% accuracy using on average just under 50 rounds with the Pup and Se5. A marked improvement from the first trials on Saturday where I fired over 400 rounds and scored 0 hits - not that this is a great achievement seeing as it is an unarmed slow target that obliges me my flying almost straight and level to be shot at...

Next plan for this weekend is to make the target an armed 2 seater so I actually have to avoid some return fire. Plus of course some actual dog fighting. Who knows, I may even start a real campaign; although still undecided on when/where to do this.



With you on the Nieuports; not tried a Spad yet. I do like the N17 though; found visibility to be similar to the Camel. I tried it because it was Balls preference; apparently he even continued to use it for solo flights after the issue of the Se5. I still prefer the Pup though.

Flying has not generally been an issue out of combat; where I must be being to sharp on the turns and dives/climbs; I am certainly not yanking the stick (sounds like a euphemism there!). All except the DH2 which I just cannot get on with; it feels like trying to fly a shopping trolly.

.

Dan, if you've not found it yet, you should read the following primer on the DH2, written by Dej for the OFF version of this kite:

DH2 Primer

As I noted earlier in this thread, I've noticed little if any difference in the handling characteristics between the WOFF and OFF versions of this mount.

Happy reading!

.

Hi Dan
Glad the changed settings joystick settings helped out
I had the same problem myself and the lowered settings really helped me

Sounds like your gunnery is getting much better

If I may advise on Quick Combat against opponents who fire back
Make your first ones against Rookie Pilots

Then when you are more confident, turn their experience level up

Go get 'em mate

Just downloaded
I will have a quick read tonight, it looks really interesting

At the moment I think I am still far too 'green' to consider a Campaign in a DH2

I think I will stick with my Alb DI, or possibly try a Strutter (they look interesting )

However - I am sure at some point in the future I will want to try a pilot in 'the
machine that will reverse the Fokker Scourge' as the intro to the Guide puts it

Good stuff - thanks Lou

EDIT - just noticed, there is lots of good stuff in the link provided for all sorts of aircraft
Have downloaded them all

Could we get these primers posted at this site as well? As much as I love the old site for the game it would be best if they were at both sites or hosted as a pack with the mods on the OBD game download page.

Cheers MarkL

Just remembered another couple of FNG tips Dan

1 - Check your workshop settings for mixture
I have a feeling it defaults to Manual Mixture
If this is the case, and you are not changing your mixture manually, you will start to lose power above about 7-8000 feet - although you probably won't realise it at the time
Either - learn how to use manual mixture (still on my to do list )
Or - change it to auto mix in workshop to get the best out of your engine at any altitude

2 - change your fire button from the trigger on the stick to a button on the throttle
seems we unintentionally 'twitch' when using the fire button on a joystick which can throw your aim off
Having it on the throttle negates this
I do not know how true this one is - but it sounds reasonable so I have given it a go