Well that went over better than I thought it would.....Anywho........waffles anyone? Okay...I'll be piglet....in light of my opinionated comments..But we can still hug....Come here guys.....

The Dev's made a serious mistake I admit when they shortchanged SP on the initial design...no doubt about that. The main reason it's such a serious mistake is people do really want a game interfaced with a serious Career Mode...so they can jump on and fly...30 min missions....choosing their own time slot and time allotment. Life has just evolved since our Forgotten Battle days...The pace is just too hectic to find all that time we seemed to have had back in those days....So yes, this is a problem. It does take time and energy to search out the utilities...the missions, the career generators, and perhaps logging your own mission results, etc...

Hyperlobby was indicative of quick coop based missions and the numbers playing reflected this....but as I say...there was more time for such things. I don't think the series is dropping off.....it's really the opposite...The new planes, the maps, the terrain...well..it just keeps getting better. So we just have to agree to disagree....

But let's face it....maybe 9 to 10 of you guys in here...saying you won't play the game......and there are thousands out there playing it. So you might argue...well for the 10 of us there are thousands that wont purchase it.....and I might argue but for the 50 or so of us on BOS forum, there are thousand that have already purchased it and will continue to purchase it....So.....we shall see. If it hits the bargain bin...hey go for it.

Only 1C/777 know the facts, only they have the login/authentication details.

I'd be very surprised, judging by the forum activity on the official forum, if there were more than 500 active players.

But we will never know if it's hundreds or thousands.

A few things we do know.

Many people that bought BOS haven't and don't intend buying BOM.

Many people that bought BOS no longer fly it.

And those facts are both in spite of the overall excitement that surrounded BOS when it was announced.

The developers let the fans down and they let themselves down.

With less hype and more realistic marketing the fans wouldn't feel they were mislead and maybe the project would be better supported now.

This is really the main bone of contention.

Did they? Did they make this decision in the initial design? The Dev Diary clearly indicated they were going to do a lot more. Then we get our first hint of the campaign in EA and it's not all that, not even close, but it's not release yet, so whatever, right?
Then release comes and it hasn't changed. Then people say, uh, hello? Where's the campaign you talked about in the DD? Then we get "it's not happening." Why? Because apparently Loft had zero intention of ever doing it, that's why. He didn't say "we ran out of time" because since development continued after release that would imply he was going to bring it out later, which he's not. He didn't say "we ran out of money" because, hey, development was fully funded even without EA funds, remember? Then all the money that came afterwards would've contributed towards that, but no.

So, basically, he straight-out lied.

Either A) Loft lied to our faces when he committed to a historically accurate and meaningful campaign when he knew full well he wasn't going to or B) Loft lied to our faces when he said that what we have now is all we were ever going to get because he knew full well the original plan was more ambitious and meaningful, and when it didn't happen he retconned it to say this was the original plan.

He is a liar. We can't say which lie with certainty, but it's proven that he did.





The Jedi Master

^^^ Hitting the nail on the head, Jedi.

I agree with that....they created the negativity...initially. And some can let all that go....and see the series for what it is right now..today. The Dev's dictated so much....and alienated so many, and it has hurt sales...But that doesn't mean the game is not evolving into something very enjoyable.

This is recent online from TWB...and you may say that the game looks good, nice eye candy and all that...but it is much more than that now. FM, DM, interface, sounds, skins, FMB, SMB, Parsers and career generators, many missions, and there is a wonderful amount of ground activity going on down there....Just fly in Eagles Nest and take a look around....

I got jumped by some AI in NewWings server the other day...and 3 VVS fighters did a great tag team effort on me...I flew with JG5 in Wings of Liberty a few times....game ran great....64 of us..banging away.....Lots of ground activity as well...comms worked great...was just like the old days for me...online. Yaks came in and hit Custard flying an HE-111...I was a hair late...but downed him....he broke apart and into flames, spiraling to the ground...great immersion.

Anyway......if you watch the video...you are watching a little piece of simulation history...only it would have been in Russian and not english....Great job...TWB


PE-2's taking out Depot....Recent Combat video

And guys...thanks for keeping it friendly with our discussion...It really isn't worth getting angry with one another...

All this in a "Heads up there's a sale!" thread.. I just wanted to let folks know that BoS was on sale..

I think a lot of people are not flying sims period.. because from where I sit BoS, CoD and DCS combined do not come close to the Hyperlobby numbers in the old days which routinely were in the four figure range..

The thing that really kills me with what happened in this thread in particular and the thing that makes so much of this just so ... unfathomable to me is .. Regardless to what any of the dozen or so critics here think of BoS based on their initial experience and financial outlay and the disappointment they have experienced to deny that at $40 BoS as it is now is not worth it is IMO just denial...

The fact that you guys cling to it so tenaciously and make all these moral and character judgements on the team members over this ad nauseum to the point where you can't even let a thread like this stand without the same old stuff is mind boggling to me.. That whole "Well we can speak freely here so we will be honest about what BoS really is!!" Line is very old and actually at this point it is just wrong ... not as in morally wrong (although I guess that too would be debatable to some) but as in factually wrong.. because to let the handful of diehards here who keep this stuff going tell it BoS is a total piece of garbage ... and that is not the truth.. You can come back with that whole "Well that is our opinion!" stuff and you would be right it would be your opinion but the fact of the matter is that the views shared by the folks here are not the whole truth.. they are not completely honest.. and they are not entirely accurate. Does BoS lack some features that many simmers want... ? Yes it does... but to let you folks tell it WT is actually a better product... To let you guys tell it if reading between the lines it would be better to spend $80 on DCS and get two aircraft than to drop $40 on BoS.. which is just not true. At $40 BoS premium is well worth every penny. Any simmer who does not have it.. even if SP is his primary thing would benefit from getting it at this price as it will be a while before it is $10 and believe me.. the SP content will get better long before that happens.

You guys jump on some things that I say like dogs on a bone. Maybe you think I am acting as an extension of 1CGS or at their behest. The truth of the matter is that I just like flight sims.. and when I see something that I think is a good deal I share it... I am not trying to "bait" anyone .. and given that this is the BoS forum here at Sim HQ .... it just seemed logical to post this thread. Granted given the history I probably should have known that this would happen.. but truth be told.. I was surprised.. Just naive maybe..

I understand that you guys are pissed and feel ripped off and all that but this constant ongoing campaign to trash BoS at every opportunity regardless to what comes down the pike is wrong and there is a reason why this circle of diehard critics is shrinking and that reason is that in spite of the very poorly managed roll out and start BoS is getting traction and it will be around a year from now.. not in the bargain bin... and it can stand on it's own two feet. More content is coming for BoS and content is also coming that will address many of the shortfalls that BoS now has.. perhaps not to the degree that some of you folks here would like but they will be addressed. At $40 BoS is indeed a great buy regardless to what anyone here thinks.

I disagree. It just isn't worth $40, of my money, for what it offers me.

It's great that you're enjoying it but claiming others, that don't enjoy BOS, are in denial just comes across as superior.
You think you're better than everyone here?



And here we go again, trying to state opinion as fact.

So if I stated 'BOS is not worth $40 regardless of what anyone thinks' why would my opinion be less factual than yours?

Good post BC.

H

+1

In your opinion of course.
For me, yes I DO feel like I was ripped off for $100, and because of that, no matter how 'good' the game, or its successors become, I will not purchase from these developers again, in the same way I wouldn't get suckered into another Ilya kickstarter.
Why would I give money to a team that,in my opinion, outright lied just to get my hard earned money?
Much as you would like the unfaithful to disappear, I don't see a problem in warning people about developers that are untrustworthy. Then they can make their own minds up, with their eyes open, and purchase if they wish to.
In no way would I point them to the official forums if they had a problem though, they should definitely be warned against that. I am quite happy to pay $50 a plane in DCS, and have hundreds in Star Citizen, and yet I still think BoS isn't worth $40.Trust and morality is everything for me. Paid shills, developer threats and tantrums? Why shouldn't new people hear about that sort of thing? It's not going to go away,the damage is done.
Reap what you sow has never been more fitting as in the case of BoS and 1cgs.

Again bc is repeating himself, and trying to make his opinion a fact.

It's not a fact. The only thing you can't fathom is people don't agree with you...and it bothers you.

If all you cared about was letting people know it was on sale it was accomplished in the first post, yet it is obvious that's not your only intention. You want people to agree that at 40 bones it's a good deal. Since that didn't happen you continue to repeat yourself over and over like that will help.

BOS is not worth over 9.99. That's an opinion. The same way some people might value it differently.

A widely shared one at that.

BoS is getting traction?

6 players on all of the multi-player online servers around the world combined during U.S. prime time evening hours the other night.

And Steam isn't even hitting 100 players per week now: http://steamcharts.com/cmp/63950,307960,15320#1y

You keep talking about facts vs opinion. These are facts that potential customers should also know.

TY..

Nice video

If you bought into BoS post-release, you would've/should've known what you were getting into, and therefore I would expect either no complaints/satisfaction or at most mild disappointment and a willingness to press on.

If you bought it before release, and especially before EA had even started, I think it obvious that there was a different picture painted of what we were going to get. Even if you disagree that BoS is underwhelming, you cannot argue with the fact that people who bought in early did not have their expectations met...unless they never cared about SP or running their own personal MP server or any of the other things that BoS doesn't do that previous sims did. In that case, sure, it's fine for them.

Some are all too willing to forgive and forget and be happy with what they do have, others are all too willing to hold a grudge till their dying breath, but I'm sure the majority fit in the middle somewhere, either still flying or having shelved it but feeling varying degrees of resentment for prepaying for what they believed was a limited edition, all the bells and whistles product that turned out to be a barebones one. Being then told that having that expectation is on them and not the developers, well...that's too much.

Are some people here presenting their opinions poorly? Sure. That doesn't negate their opinion, it just means they're lousy at communicating it. There is also a tendency to mistake opinions as facts, and that isn't helpful. Opinions may or may not be based on facts, but even if two people agree 100% on the facts they can still have polar opposite opinions. You'll never get everyone to agree.

So for example:
Fact: Loft lied about the campaign at some point, either prerelease for the DD or post-release when he said what we got is what we were always going to get.
Opinion: Loft was out to scam us from day one. No proof of that. Perhaps he DID intend on doing it before EA began but changed his mind later and chose to cover this up by negating his earlier statements. In one scenario, he's slime. In the other, he failed at meeting his own promises and sought to obscure it by lying, in which case he's just weak. I can understand the second scenario more, many managers practice CYA quite often, but I still don't forgive him for it either way.




The Jedi Master

I'll also say good post BC. Thanks

Yeah, they really do a great team concept...I'd like to get that proficient.....

Depends... Being honest, the DCS Mig-21 give me more satisfaction, enjoyment and fun that entire BoS - of course this don't mean that this game are "better".

But I advise people there buy BoS in this sales.
Due regional STEAM price police and local currency rates, the cost for standard in this "corner of the world" is ~20$.

I think that with the release of Summer map more people will play the game in MP, there 99% of players are "onliners".