Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
#4157258 - 08/14/15 12:27 AM Re: Hey OBD! What's..... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 890
Creaghorn Offline
Member
Creaghorn  Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 890
N�rnberg Frankonia
Quote:
A 'teaser shot'? It's more likely a taser shot is what you'll be getting before the Dev's spill any secrets.


rofl

#4157430 - 08/14/15 12:40 PM Re: Hey OBD! What's..... [Re: Raine]  
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 221
matmilne Offline
Member
matmilne  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 221
UK
Originally Posted By: Raine
Matt,

Any of the new music have a French feel?


no dear. One of the things that sets woff apart, is that it is not clichéd. The music is the expression of a world war, and the human experience of it, that's the key to its success and impact.

I briefly touched on it in the lengthy scoring article, but can elaborate a little. Most composers would do german, french, british american music etc, or do music from the era. Sometimes you would have big drums, because it sounds 'military' or big booming brass and drums because it "sounds like cannon" etc The hope is to have music that is suggestive of events, and that magically you will somehow re-live them. But it doesn't work like that.
When you score any game, you need to look at what it is, how the player interacts with it, and how they are affected by it. Then you can write music to manipulate, enhance and control that.

If you've ever played a game and felt distanced, or hollow or in other ways removed from it, it is usually because of the casual approach to music from a composer who didn't know what they were doing. Focusing on the clichés and what a game appears to be, and not what it actually is, leaving the player with little means of connection to it, is sadly common place in game scoring.

But woff is different.
Here with woff, we've got an experience of the war from a pilot's perspective. You really feel like you have a pilot who is working their way through the war. When they have a success, you feel elated and relieved, when they are lost you feel great loss. If i had done something light and casual, it would have cheapened that experience, and you would not feel that. Because the music seriously looks at the war and provides support to the player during its many twists and turns, you can feel that you are a part of it. That brings you closer to the game, and that is the key to giving you something more than a weekend of disposable play.

To paraphrase house of cards: I can't promise you what is expected or what is typical of games today, I am not about that. But I can promise that the music will reflect and support your experience, I can promise that you will feel something, real.


ITunes https://itunes.apple.com/us/artist/matt-milne/1301047345
Spotify https://open.spotify.com/album/4HohtzSKX5P5lz885y3BPu
Amazon https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07NVS3WBV/ref=dm_ws_sp_ps_dp

Demo Reel https://soundcloud.com/matt-milne-8/sets/demo-reel-full

Composer - games, films, and tv.
Wings over the Reich, Rise of Flight, Woff, off 2&3, Photokill and Star Trek: Bridge Commander Kobayashimaru
#4157445 - 08/14/15 01:23 PM Re: Hey OBD! What's..... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,532
DukeIronHand Offline
Hotshot
DukeIronHand  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,532
High over the Front
Nice!

#4157526 - 08/14/15 04:59 PM Re: Hey OBD! What's..... [Re: matmilne]  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,433
Hellshade Offline
Hellshade
Hellshade  Offline
Hellshade
Senior Member

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,433
Florida
Originally Posted By: matmilne
Originally Posted By: Raine
Matt,

Any of the new music have a French feel?


no dear. One of the things that sets woff apart, is that it is not clichéd. The music is the expression of a world war, and the human experience of it, that's the key to its success and impact.


I may be wrong, but I think Raines comment was really just a subtle stab at the hope that French two-seaters would be a part of whatever the devs are working on next, and so perhaps some French feel to the music would support the possibility of that much hoped for focus.


Flying Wings Over Flanders Fields: Between Heaven & Hell II
videos at www.youtube.com/hellshade68

#4157566 - 08/14/15 06:10 PM Re: Hey OBD! What's..... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,420
Banjoman Offline
Member
Banjoman  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,420
Antigua, Guatemala
I really like the music in WOFF, but I also think it would have been cool if the music changed based on the nationality of your pilot, for example, flying a French pilot you would hear French music of that period. I guess that would have been too much trouble because you would need four different styles of music. Oh well, maybe that can be a wish list item.


Member and provider of banjo music for the Illustrious BOC
#4157577 - 08/14/15 06:55 PM Re: Hey OBD! What's..... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,027
Wolfstriked Offline
Member
Wolfstriked  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,027
NYC
^ actually a nice suggestion.

#4157603 - 08/14/15 08:26 PM Re: Hey OBD! What's..... [Re: matmilne]  
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,993
Robert_Wiggins Offline
BWOC Survivor!...So Far!!
Robert_Wiggins  Offline
BWOC Survivor!...So Far!!
Hotshot

Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,993
Lindsay, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: matmilne
Originally Posted By: Raine
Matt,

Any of the new music have a French feel?


no dear. One of the things that sets woff apart, is that it is not clichéd. The music is the expression of a world war, and the human experience of it, that's the key to its success and impact.

I briefly touched on it in the lengthy scoring article, but can elaborate a little. Most composers would do german, french, british american music etc, or do music from the era. Sometimes you would have big drums, because it sounds 'military' or big booming brass and drums because it "sounds like cannon" etc The hope is to have music that is suggestive of events, and that magically you will somehow re-live them. But it doesn't work like that.
When you score any game, you need to look at what it is, how the player interacts with it, and how they are affected by it. Then you can write music to manipulate, enhance and control that.

If you've ever played a game and felt distanced, or hollow or in other ways removed from it, it is usually because of the casual approach to music from a composer who didn't know what they were doing. Focusing on the clichés and what a game appears to be, and not what it actually is, leaving the player with little means of connection to it, is sadly common place in game scoring.

But woff is different.
Here with woff, we've got an experience of the war from a pilot's perspective. You really feel like you have a pilot who is working their way through the war. When they have a success, you feel elated and relieved, when they are lost you feel great loss. If i had done something light and casual, it would have cheapened that experience, and you would not feel that. Because the music seriously looks at the war and provides support to the player during its many twists and turns, you can feel that you are a part of it. That brings you closer to the game, and that is the key to giving you something more than a weekend of disposable play.

To paraphrase house of cards: I can't promise you what is expected or what is typical of games today, I am not about that. But I can promise that the music will reflect and support your experience, I can promise that you will feel something, real.


Mat

Thanks for that disertation. For me that is bang on!

I would only like to say that I see WOFF as a "SIMULATION" rather than a game, in that when flying WOFF you feel that it is simulating not only the physical, but the emotional as well. This sets the bar far higher than one can experience with a game.

For that reason alone the music is key to the emotional mood, both in setting it and reflecting the users emotional experience.

Your contribution to the sim is certainly a key factor, not to be overlooked.

As I have said before, I have a CD in the car which I play when driving (mostly quiet country roads), which constantly brings back memories of my WOFF experiences.

I hope I haven't usurped your post.

Best Regards


(System_Specs)
Case: Cooler Master Storm Trooper
PSU: Ultra X3,1000-Watt
MB: Asus Maximus VI Extreme
Mem: Corsair Vengeance (2x 8GB), PC3-12800, DDR3-1600MHz, Unbuffered
CPU: Intel i7-4770K, OC to 4.427Ghz
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Seidon 240M Liquid CPU Cooler
Vid Card: ASUS GTX 980Ti STRIX 6GB
OS and Games on separate: Samsung 840 Series 250GB SSD
Monitor: Primary ASUS PG27AQ 4k; Secondary Samsung SyncMaster BX2450L
Periphs: MS Sidewinder FFB2 Pro, TrackIR 4

#4157772 - 08/15/15 12:04 PM Re: Hey OBD! What's..... [Re: Banjoman]  
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 221
matmilne Offline
Member
matmilne  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 221
UK
Originally Posted By: Banjoman
..if the music changed based on the nationality of your pilot, for example, flying a French pilot you would hear French music of that period....


missing the point entierly. Wiggins has it. The point is that nationality music is cheap and clichéd. It takes away from everything that woff is, not add to it. Catering to how it appears on the surface, merely denies you the depth of what is underneath.


ITunes https://itunes.apple.com/us/artist/matt-milne/1301047345
Spotify https://open.spotify.com/album/4HohtzSKX5P5lz885y3BPu
Amazon https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07NVS3WBV/ref=dm_ws_sp_ps_dp

Demo Reel https://soundcloud.com/matt-milne-8/sets/demo-reel-full

Composer - games, films, and tv.
Wings over the Reich, Rise of Flight, Woff, off 2&3, Photokill and Star Trek: Bridge Commander Kobayashimaru
#4157784 - 08/15/15 01:05 PM Re: Hey OBD! What's..... [Re: matmilne]  
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,993
Robert_Wiggins Offline
BWOC Survivor!...So Far!!
Robert_Wiggins  Offline
BWOC Survivor!...So Far!!
Hotshot

Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,993
Lindsay, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: matmilne
Originally Posted By: Banjoman
..if the music changed based on the nationality of your pilot, for example, flying a French pilot you would hear French music of that period....


missing the point entierly. Wiggins has it. The point is that nationality music is cheap and clichéd. It takes away from everything that woff is, not add to it. Catering to how it appears on the surface, merely denies you the depth of what is underneath.


Mat, I also understand Banjoman's interest in enhancing the uniqueness of the French flying corp. I guess that a French pilot would likely be listening to popular French music most of the time. That of course, is out of the realm of what you are trying to convey, "Mood". I have no answer to Banjoman's interest other than to say that having some popular French music playing as an option, is a possibility. Personally I prefer your approach since mood transcends nationality and is universal.

Best Regards to all


(System_Specs)
Case: Cooler Master Storm Trooper
PSU: Ultra X3,1000-Watt
MB: Asus Maximus VI Extreme
Mem: Corsair Vengeance (2x 8GB), PC3-12800, DDR3-1600MHz, Unbuffered
CPU: Intel i7-4770K, OC to 4.427Ghz
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Seidon 240M Liquid CPU Cooler
Vid Card: ASUS GTX 980Ti STRIX 6GB
OS and Games on separate: Samsung 840 Series 250GB SSD
Monitor: Primary ASUS PG27AQ 4k; Secondary Samsung SyncMaster BX2450L
Periphs: MS Sidewinder FFB2 Pro, TrackIR 4

#4157798 - 08/15/15 02:13 PM Re: Hey OBD! What's..... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 907
Nietzsche Offline
Member
Nietzsche  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 907
Grevenbroich, Germany
Well, one of the Background-Soundfiles in-Game at the Airfield points to a funny Solution:
You sure all know that Song playing, while someone occasionally opens the Door to that Room, where they are spinning that Record...

#4157801 - 08/15/15 02:18 PM Re: Hey OBD! What's..... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,027
Wolfstriked Offline
Member
Wolfstriked  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,027
NYC
Maybe nationality based music that changes for each nationality in the enlist new pilot screen?

#4157928 - 08/15/15 08:39 PM Re: Hey OBD! What's..... [Re: matmilne]  
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,420
Banjoman Offline
Member
Banjoman  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,420
Antigua, Guatemala
I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this point. If you are trying to instill a certain mood of that period then you provide music of that period. I guess all of the period piece movies that I've seen have been cliched because they all provided music that was played or enjoyed during that period.


Member and provider of banjo music for the Illustrious BOC
#4157971 - 08/15/15 10:49 PM Re: Hey OBD! What's..... [Re: Banjoman]  
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,993
Robert_Wiggins Offline
BWOC Survivor!...So Far!!
Robert_Wiggins  Offline
BWOC Survivor!...So Far!!
Hotshot

Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,993
Lindsay, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Banjoman
I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this point. If you are trying to instill a certain mood of that period then you provide music of that period. I guess all of the period piece movies that I've seen have been cliched because they all provided music that was played or enjoyed during that period.


Banjoman, I don't think we disagree. There is a place for what you are wanting. Maybe during the campaign menu displays etc, as an option you can choose somewhere. During flight I lean towards the mood music that Mat Milne has created. There is room for both. It's just not currently available but could be if the demand is there.

Cheers


(System_Specs)
Case: Cooler Master Storm Trooper
PSU: Ultra X3,1000-Watt
MB: Asus Maximus VI Extreme
Mem: Corsair Vengeance (2x 8GB), PC3-12800, DDR3-1600MHz, Unbuffered
CPU: Intel i7-4770K, OC to 4.427Ghz
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Seidon 240M Liquid CPU Cooler
Vid Card: ASUS GTX 980Ti STRIX 6GB
OS and Games on separate: Samsung 840 Series 250GB SSD
Monitor: Primary ASUS PG27AQ 4k; Secondary Samsung SyncMaster BX2450L
Periphs: MS Sidewinder FFB2 Pro, TrackIR 4

#4157989 - 08/15/15 11:52 PM Re: Hey OBD! What's..... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 3,696
Fullofit Offline
Senior Member
Fullofit  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 3,696
Ajax, ON
Robert,
How did you ever manage to get the gramophone up in the air? copter


"Take the cylinder out of my kidneys,
The connecting rod out of my brain, my brain,
From out of my arse take the camshaft,
And assemble the engine again."
#4157990 - 08/15/15 11:57 PM Re: Hey OBD! What's..... [Re: Fullofit]  
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,993
Robert_Wiggins Offline
BWOC Survivor!...So Far!!
Robert_Wiggins  Offline
BWOC Survivor!...So Far!!
Hotshot

Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,993
Lindsay, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Fullofit
Robert,
How did you ever manage to get the gramophone up in the air? copter


Well, you see, it's like this! I removed the pilot seat and installed the gramophone. I added a stool top onto the top of the gramophone spindle and when I want to check my six or 360, I crank the handle 6 turns and away I go! With the quick flip of a gear switch I can also keep my prop spinning when my SE engine fails! biggrin

Gee, maybe I should change my forum handle to "Fullofit2"

Last edited by Robert_Wiggins; 08/15/15 11:58 PM.

(System_Specs)
Case: Cooler Master Storm Trooper
PSU: Ultra X3,1000-Watt
MB: Asus Maximus VI Extreme
Mem: Corsair Vengeance (2x 8GB), PC3-12800, DDR3-1600MHz, Unbuffered
CPU: Intel i7-4770K, OC to 4.427Ghz
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Seidon 240M Liquid CPU Cooler
Vid Card: ASUS GTX 980Ti STRIX 6GB
OS and Games on separate: Samsung 840 Series 250GB SSD
Monitor: Primary ASUS PG27AQ 4k; Secondary Samsung SyncMaster BX2450L
Periphs: MS Sidewinder FFB2 Pro, TrackIR 4

#4157999 - 08/16/15 12:37 AM Re: Hey OBD! What's..... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 221
matmilne Offline
Member
matmilne  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 221
UK
I don't just want you to feel that you are in 1917; i'm trying to get you to see a world war and the effects it has had on the world, from the modern perspective you have, i think that is more important. Not just to experience a sense of your pilot, but to see everything that has happened since and why. That perhaps takes a different approach to 'the music is from 1917, you be in 1917 now'.

The airfield gramophone is an interesting exception, that is in the same time period as the pilot and can play music of the era, infact that would be a great addition.

Last edited by matmilne; 08/16/15 01:00 AM. Reason: add the airfield

ITunes https://itunes.apple.com/us/artist/matt-milne/1301047345
Spotify https://open.spotify.com/album/4HohtzSKX5P5lz885y3BPu
Amazon https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07NVS3WBV/ref=dm_ws_sp_ps_dp

Demo Reel https://soundcloud.com/matt-milne-8/sets/demo-reel-full

Composer - games, films, and tv.
Wings over the Reich, Rise of Flight, Woff, off 2&3, Photokill and Star Trek: Bridge Commander Kobayashimaru
#4158014 - 08/16/15 01:55 AM Re: Hey OBD! What's..... [Re: Robert_Wiggins]  
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 3,696
Fullofit Offline
Senior Member
Fullofit  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 3,696
Ajax, ON
Originally Posted By: Robert_Wiggins
Originally Posted By: Fullofit
Robert,
How did you ever manage to get the gramophone up in the air? copter


Well, you see, it's like this! I removed the pilot seat and installed the gramophone. I added a stool top onto the top of the gramophone spindle and when I want to check my six or 360, I crank the handle 6 turns and away I go! With the quick flip of a gear switch I can also keep my prop spinning when my SE engine fails! biggrin

Gee, maybe I should change my forum handle to "Fullofit2"


Wonder if the gramophone torque is programmed into the simulation and affects your FM?
I prefer "Fullofit too".


"Take the cylinder out of my kidneys,
The connecting rod out of my brain, my brain,
From out of my arse take the camshaft,
And assemble the engine again."
#4158243 - 08/17/15 01:16 AM Re: Hey OBD! What's..... [Re: matmilne]  
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 864
Hauksbee Offline
Member
Hauksbee  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 864
DeForest, Wisconsin
Originally Posted By: matmilne
i'm trying to get you to see a world war and the effects it has had on the world, from the modern perspective you have, i think that is more important.

I'm sure you'll get it right Matt, just...please, no bloody accordions.


In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But in practice, there is.
#4158312 - 08/17/15 07:48 AM Re: Hey OBD! What's..... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 890
Creaghorn Offline
Member
Creaghorn  Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 890
N�rnberg Frankonia
There is this grammophone on the airfield. I deliberately didn't make different versions for different countries, since it would mean that for each country different airfield ambiences must be loaded into the game. Much codingwork for something hardly anyone would notice in the first place. So I chose rather to have a one size fits all solution with the "There's a rose in nomansland". I even thought about easter eggs like having christmas music out of the gramophone during the christmasdays in campaign. or singing personell out of the sheds during those days. Stuff like that.

I like period music. I'm using it for the Brasco series as well for the letter-sequences, some accordion, some ragtime music etc. to create a little "Amiga Wings" feeling. But also using Matt's score a lot, too. I agree 100% with Matt. I'm a fan of sounds and soundtracks. A soundtrack has to tell a story, not just simply showing the era where it's playing. It has to be epic and timeless. It has to tell that there is a war, much bigger than you going on and you are just one small, unimportant part of it. It has to create certain feelings, which Matt's score does. It shows how much of a butterfly effect certain things were. How everything has become independent and out of hand, looking from the retrospective. It could also have been used for WW2 or attacking Armadas and fighting ships etc. It is enough to not use instruments which didn't exist in that time. But other than that it has to be timeless and epic. Take for example the original Red baron 3d marching soundtrack. Yes, it is nice to hear some marchingtune. You know it's WW1 and Prussians like marching songs. Bravo. But it doesn't create any feeling besides showing a typical gaming score. Now take Adagio for Strings. It's epic and it creates certain feelings and it is used for WW1, but also it was used in Platoon for the Vietnam-war. Simply because it's timeless. It creates a feeling of an unnecessary war and suffering. Period music is for "inbetween sequences". It's to remind you of the period, like proper uniforms, proper furniture etc. It's good for airfields, letters etc. The main scores need to create a different feeling and need to be timeless.

Sometimes only the score makes the difference if it is a gung ho war-movie or anti-war-movie, a war-game or anti-war game.

Last edited by Creaghorn; 08/17/15 07:54 AM.
#4158688 - 08/18/15 03:23 AM Re: Hey OBD! What's..... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 103
Lewis Offline
Member
Lewis  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 103
Maritime Oregon.
Did any of you ever play a patched RedBaron 3D? I bought the Full Canvas Jacket mod disc in 2002 which came with a whole new set of music to replace the stock Red Baron martial music. There were some evocative tracks in that list of new music, I especially liked the,.. I think it was called the Menu2 track. which was overlayed on some of the period speeches given by the various leaders of the time about the War. What a great mod that was.


Barmy OFFer in questionable standing, maybe collapsed in a corner?

Join the few, the touched, the moon spacklers.

[image]http://combatace.com/uploads/profile/photo-65486.jpg[/image]
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Polovski 

Quick Search
Recent Articles
Support SimHQ

If you shop on Amazon use this Amazon link to support SimHQ
.
Social


Recent Topics
Carnival Cruise Ship Fire....... Again
by F4UDash4. 03/26/24 05:58 PM
Baltimore Bridge Collapse
by F4UDash4. 03/26/24 05:51 PM
The Oldest WWII Veterans
by F4UDash4. 03/24/24 09:21 PM
They got fired after this.
by Wigean. 03/20/24 08:19 PM
Grown ups joke time
by NoFlyBoy. 03/18/24 10:34 PM
Anyone Heard from Nimits?
by F4UDash4. 03/18/24 10:01 PM
RIP Gemini/Apollo astronaut Tom Stafford
by semmern. 03/18/24 02:14 PM
10 years after 3/8/2014
by NoFlyBoy. 03/17/24 10:25 AM
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0