|
#4151504 - 07/28/15 10:13 PM
Re: Are flight sims dead?
[Re: JagerNeun]
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,806
Bearcat99
Senior Member
|
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,806
USA
|
I personally believe the market is thinning out some with CFS in our particular niche. If you ask a teenager today about Stalingrad, Normandy, BOB, Eastern Front.....most of today's kids wouldn't have the foggiest notion of what you were talking about....Here in the USA we've gotten into all the political correct historical emphasis.
The void of time between these battles continues to spread and with it, the interest in what happened in these conflicts. For many of us, with fathers and relatives that fought, and lived through the reality of the war, there was that special spark to reach out and try and make some type of connection. I personally believe that desire is dying out.
Shoot em up...online arenas like WT are fun and fast and they satisfy the needs of most gamers in this area. In addition, twenty years has brought about a whole new dynamic of time management within families and online gaming. Online excitement within the console realm is also a factor which has pulled away a customer base from the CPU, CFS gamer. There's just so much more to choose from...online which makes a community connection with friends and gaming interaction that our CFS online arenas can't compete with.
A squadron based online CFS takes a tremendous amount of time and patience to create and maintain...and today...well many guys just don't have that much time to devote. Poor offline SP creations like BOS only add to the frustration which we see here posted almost everyday.
I'll take what I can get because of these trends, and I will continue to support games like BOS precisely because of these trends. Besides...this game is getting better all the time for me. I have no regrets except for all the #%&*$# along the way. But I've learned a lot, as well.
Those are good points.. but I also think that the other side to that coin that is even more relevant and often overlooked by us older simmers is that the upcoming generation don't really care about whether the FMs are accurate or not.. It doesn't matter to them. WT is a classic example of that.. this is why almost from day one.. serious simmer to whom that kind of stuff matters either passed up on WT all together or they took it for what it was worth and still engaged in their sim of choice which was in most cases either46 still, DCS or CoD .. and for some BoS.. or any combination of those four sims. Most of these younger folks and by younger I mean say from 15-35 will not be such sticklers on turn rates and max dive speeds etc.. Some will but most will not care... Can I "win" with it? Can I get points? That is all that matters to may of them and of course developers know thios and this leaves us hardcore guys in lurch.
Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
|
|
|
#4151559 - 07/29/15 02:25 AM
Re: Are flight sims dead?
[Re: JagerNeun]
|
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,945
Nimits
Hotshot
|
Hotshot
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,945
United States of America
|
I personally believe the market is thinning out some with CFS in our particular niche. If you ask a teenager today about Stalingrad, Normandy, BOB, Eastern Front.....most of today's kids wouldn't have the foggiest notion of what you were talking about....Here in the USA we've gotten into all the political correct historical emphasis.
The fact that, when history is taught, it is the history of "people groups" and "movements" (which is, whatever else you may say about it, generally boring), instead of the history of individuals and events (which is generally more interesting), certainly does not help the cause of generating interest in historical flight sims.
|
|
|
#4151590 - 07/29/15 06:13 AM
Re: Are flight sims dead?
[Re: JimBobb]
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 454
Ami7b5
Member
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 454
|
Great posts CyBerkut. Good arguments, excellent style and a lot of patience shown also... 
If you're close, get closer.
|
|
|
#4151612 - 07/29/15 08:52 AM
Re: Are flight sims dead?
[Re: JimBobb]
|
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,231
Trooper117
Hotshot
|
Hotshot
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,231
UK
|
When I was a young lad, most adults I came into contact with had been in the war, many of them told stories that got me excited and interested, a lot of them had stories from when they flew planes like Spitfires and Hurricanes... As a youngster I decided I would join the RAF. Imagine my shock and horror to find out that the RAF no longer flew Spits and Hurri's... When I realised I wouldn't be able to shoot down Luftwaffe intruders over the channel, I lost all interest in joining, I mean, who wants to fly a bloody jet? I wanted merlins and propellors 
|
|
|
#4151730 - 07/29/15 01:48 PM
Re: Are flight sims dead?
[Re: JimBobb]
|
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Jedi Master
Entil'zha
|
Entil'zha
Sierra Hotel
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Space Coast, USA
|
Another loss is aviation in the popular media. Think about it, we used to have tons of films with WWI, WWII, or jet fighters plying the skies. We had TV series. In the 80s alone off the top of my head you had TC's helo in Magnum PI (which forever endeared me to the Little Bird), and then the dual Airwolf/Blue Thunder series.
You had Final Countdown and Top Gun showing the F-14. You had Iron Eagle with the F-16. You had Star Wars and the Last Starfighter and such showing you space combat, which in turn would drive interest in real planes.
What do we have now? Zip. It got too costly for the most part so they stopped making them.
Even car chases! TV series in the 70s and 80s would weekly have car stunts that today require a big budget film to do. Today they get in a car, then they get out somewhere else and chase on foot. No more car chases.
So with airplanes relegated to isolated YouTube or LiveLeak videos that don't have near the production value one episode of Airwolf did 30 years ago, what is going to drive interest?
With a few exceptions like Tomb Raider or Doom, largely video games have been fueled by the media, letting us play the movies and TV we watched. If it wasn't there, who would think a market would exist to make a game for it?
The Jedi Master
The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
|
|
|
#4151798 - 07/29/15 03:37 PM
Re: Are flight sims dead?
[Re: JimBobb]
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 454
Ami7b5
Member
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 454
|
I'm affraid you're right, Sokol.
Still, I have bought all WWII crates in DCS so far.
They stay in hangar collecting dust, waiting for a proper theater.
But hope dies last...
Last edited by Ami7b5; 07/29/15 03:38 PM.
If you're close, get closer.
|
|
#4151804 - 07/29/15 03:53 PM
Re: Are flight sims dead?
[Re: Ami7b5]
|
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 473
Taxman
Member
|
Member
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 473
Portland, OR USA
|
I'm affraid you're right, Sokol.
Still, I have bought all WWII crates in DCS so far.
They stay in hangar collecting dust, waiting for a proper theater.
But hope dies last... Same here. Wonder how long the hope will last? 
Taxes are my part time profession, flying is my passion.
|
|
|
#4152790 - 08/01/15 02:26 AM
Re: Are flight sims dead?
[Re: Evil Flower]
|
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 457
VMIalpha454
Member
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 457
Chattanooga, Tn
|
I think Evil Flower hits the nail on the head. I was actually just talking about this yesterday with a coworker. Sims have changed over time from giving their best effort at realism while still being a fun game into a focus only on realism and graphics...no real consideration to the fun game part.
I dont understand how a fairly primative computer game can do something like a career or campaign so well but modern developers, with all the technology and capabilities they have, seem unable to incorporate them into their new games.
I have also seen some on here speculating about the younger generations and their lack of interest in flight sims. The general misconception seems to be that they dont have the attention span or the inclination to play these types of games. I dont believe that is the case. Rather, I believe that ANYONE who picks up a game expects to be able to enjoy it during their first sitting. A lot of you guys have been playing flight sims, or even flying real planes, for 15-20 years. How can a 15 year old kid be expected to enjoy playing a game that is so complex he cant have fun? I have watched this happen with my own eyes. I'd bet most of these sims from 15-20 years ago were pretty fun right out of the gate. There is a really steep learning curve with a modern flight sim and with so little emphasis on the fun game part, can we really expect them to slog through it?
"I have only two men out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold."
1stLt. Clifton B. Cates, USMC
in Belleau Wood, 19 July 1918
|
|
|
#4152841 - 08/01/15 09:51 AM
Re: Are flight sims dead?
[Re: JimBobb]
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,118
Chucky
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,118
UK
|
I think Evil Flower got it in one.There was a point in time for me at least where flight sims started to go in a direction I didn't really like.I hung in,trying to adapt,trying desperately not to lose interest but in the end all this high fidelity/rivet-counting/complexity drove me away. Sure,there are plenty who thrive on that but for me the sims feel sterile,no fun at all.
Last edited by Chucky; 08/01/15 09:52 AM.
EV's are the Devils matchbox.
|
|
|
#4152903 - 08/01/15 02:51 PM
Re: Are flight sims dead?
[Re: JimBobb]
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 772
Johnny_Redd
Member
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 772
|
Not only is the "fun" part missing, or secondary to fedelity/rivet counting. One needs to throw down a minimum of a couple of hundred bucks on peripherals just to get the most out of a $90 game.
WT is all the things trooper said it is. It is also free and one doesnt need a joystick and pedals or a couple of thousand dollar supercomputer to run it.
Devs need to produce more than shiney, there needs to be substance and fun. Team death match won't sell a $90+ game.
DCS Kickstarter
Wags July 2014 "In this July 2014 update, the primary news is in regards to the restructured backer rewards. After a careful review of the older system under RRG, we found it financially unattainable."
Wags October 2017 "the investment vs. generated revenue has been excellent for the World War II aircraft. In fact, the P-51D Mustang has twice the cost effectiveness of the A-10C Warthog."
|
|
|
#4152917 - 08/01/15 03:44 PM
Re: Are flight sims dead?
[Re: JimBobb]
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 454
Ami7b5
Member
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 454
|
Who would start a kickstarter for "IL*2 2015"? I would buy a 2015 version of 1946 for $200 immediately. OK.... $300. But not more, LOL Because I wouldn't need to buy any other game anymore in this life  BoS is so close (to source code of 1946) and yet so far (to delivered content) Sigh...
Last edited by Ami7b5; 08/01/15 03:47 PM.
If you're close, get closer.
|
|
|
#4152919 - 08/01/15 03:45 PM
Re: Are flight sims dead?
[Re: Chucky]
|
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,398
KodiakJac
Member
|
Member
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,398
USA
|
...but in the end all this high fidelity/rivet-counting/complexity drove me away. Yep, same here. I think complexity rather than balance is why DCS went broke on its first try. I keep seeing comments on how our demands for complexity kept increasing and I'm thinking "not me." I just wanted a graphics update to IL-2 1946, I didn't need more rivets and higher fidelity FM's. They are nice to have, but not at the expense of everything we lost when comparing BoS to 1946.
Dogfighting is what you do "after" you drop your bombs and blow something up! Can you say "JABO!" 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Exodus
by RedOneAlpha. 04/18/24 05:46 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yes, the Flight Sims like this (old) generation know and dream is death. Move on. 