After trying my luck in DCS Huey I'm really tired of the stiff springs in my 600+ USD moded Cougar since they are really - and always been - horrible when flying helis or WWI/WWII planes that requires smooth control input!

Several years ago I contacted TM and asked why they didn't sold a few different springs like 50% and 25% force of the original springs as spare parts but they where not interested to help.

I know some of you extended the stick to get better feeling but paying 100+ USD for an extension or a new gimbal for even more USD for a already (to) expensive HOTAS is not an option for me, so I have decided to try to solve this in the easiest and cheapest way possible!

The idea is to replace the stiff original X/Y springs with a single conical spring in the center like Saitek have in their design, see picture below.

Cougar Center Spring Mod

I have contacted a spring manufacturer here in Sweden willing to manufacure it but they (as everyone else) have a 250+ pcs minimum quantity so I wanted to hear how big the interest is for this mod?

Of course the big problem will be to get all the dimensions etc. correct and test out the spring for smooth control. They have promised to help me with that and I can pay that from my own pocket but I only need ~5 and not 250 pcs.

If you would be interested of this mod or have other toughts please post in this thread. My goal is to keep it as cheap as possible and will take <30 seconds to install. I hope to be able to give an estimated cost per spring within a few weeks.

/KC

You can build your own extension for around $20.00 using the Gardena hose connector mod. There is also a guy making 3D printed parts for an extension mod using the hose connector. Don't remember if I saw it here or DCS forums though.

I found this link at the ED Forums. I see you also posted there.

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=143852

Thanks for the input Lucky but in my case I don't want to use an extension since it requires you to mount the Cougar lower and that don't work for me - unless I make a large cutout in my desk .

I've looked into it before and the adapters required are very hard to find here in Sweden even if Gardena is represented here, eBay would probably be a source but as I said I wan't a center spring since this will solve another issue with Cougars original springs and that is the uneven force required to move the stick X/Y or diagonaly.

/KC

OK, hope you get it sorted.

A central spring is too much problem, you can use a more straight forward spring solution. I recommend you see Cougar World mods as examples (Google Cougar Evenstrain).

Hi Aullido,



To much problem? A proper central spring seems to to be the easiest solution for this problem...Can you please elaborate what you mean?



I know about the Evenstrain but as I said in my first post that requires you to buy a new gimbal for several hundreds USD and to DIY would need some heavy metal work or am I missing something?

/KC

This would be a neat stopgap mod to make the Cougar usable, the behavior of beehive spring gimbals is pretty benign in terms of center dententes and such, an area a stock Cougar scores very poorly. I'd probably buy a few if you have the springs made. Would you would also need to make proper cups to trap the spring in the correct position, or would the upper id be such that it trapped on the bottom of the m36 threads?.

I get what you mean and my hope is that the upper end of the spring will be enough fixated by the edge on the grey screw but the end that is against the base would need some fixation and the idea is to use the four M3 holes already there (after the rubber dust cover is removed) to fixate it with the M3 screws heads on four points.

/KC

I am no expert but I think there is no warranty that a conical sprig will give you an even force distribution. You must take care on both extremes of the spring to get a fluid movement.

Maybe a evenstrain mod reusing the Cougar's cage and gimbals would be easier to implement.

But this is not the first time I will proven wrong.

If it's done the Saitek way, it's going to result in a lot of nasty center play/slop, which the stock Cougar gimbals are already known for. Needless to say, it'd be a lot of extra work for no improvement, thus making the whole project pointless.

You might have more success doing it the Suncom saturn ring way, since old Suncom F-15 sticks have a conical spring with a tight center and even force distribution, but that requires a more involved gimbal replacement on the inside, possibly more involved that replicating the quad-spring Evenstrain approach.

Your not alone on that one

Maybe you guys are right and I will know when I tested. Thankfully my Cougar doesn't have any major center play.

Time will tell if a center spring improve things for me or not but since it's a very easy thing to test - if I can find the correct spring - it's worth giving a shot IMO.

/KC

Ordered some generic strait springs (to small) and manage to buy two (only ones they had!) conical springs from a local mech shop that I hoped to be able to adjust to fit. Due to the size of these springs I couldn't mount them under the big handle screw as planned, instead I had to mount them below that so I think a larger spring mounted the way I planned in the first place will be even better.

After some bending and cutting I managed to get one spring that fitted "so so" since the spring doesn't have full turns at the ends due to me shortenening and widening both ends.

I also made a base protection to prevent the spring to dig into the base using a DVD case that I cut to size with a sharp X-acto knife. Unfortunately I shaved of 1-2 mm to much on one side so I had to be creative with straps to make one of the coil turns to stay in place.

The base protection (and tension on the straps) is hold in place by the ring. It's far from pretty but the feeling on the workbench is totally different than the IHMO crappy original springs.

The stick is relly easy to move in any direction and my hope is to finally be able to fly by my "fingertips". It's not perfect using this spring and Y- have a bit less range (~2-3 mm) than Y+ but I plan to redo the straps and hopefully improve it.

Below are a couple of pictures and if anyone is interested I can upload some more. Will let you know how it works in the DCS Huey and Clod after recalibrating the hall sensors and then the stick...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/v54oejq29tqeszi/CSSM%20-%20Spring%20and%20Plate.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/n2ixwkw5rg75og5/CSSM%20-%20Mounted.jpg?dl=0

/KC

Trying to decide dimensions as well as height of the spring I have a question regarding the spring diameter at the base...

To explain what I mean see the following pictures and forgive my crappy drawing skills.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/d0ken3qt9ngi7zm/wide_narrow_base%201.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/61fx9r5n8qnjs6t/wide_narrow_base%202.jpg?dl=0

What do you think would be the best option for the base diameter, a wide one or a narrow one or maybe it doesn't matter much?

As I see it the wider base would be the prefered option and easiest to mount/fixate since the stock metal ring prevents it from moving around, any thoughts?

/KC

If it's all the same to you , make the base wide enough that compressing the spring does not push the coils from above into the ones below. This will keep it the quietest since the coils will not be rubbing against each other under load.

The little time I had flying is still with the first "prototype" spring and even if not perfect I prefer it over the very stiff stock Cougar springs. Now all I need to do is to think about moving the stick and it almost does - it requires very little input in any direction, almost to little. I will aim to get the final heli/prop spring ~1-1.5x as stiff and maybe one thats ~3x as stiff and more suitable for jets.

However a guy have helped me get some custom springs made in Croatia (thanks for your help debolestis!) and I have received them already but not had enought time to sit down to get them in - damn RL!

I can directly see/feel that some of them is to weak but there are a few ones that feels very promising. I'm pretty sure I have to get a few more made before finding the correct stiffness but this first batch will hopefully get me closer since I have something to reference against when making new ones.

Will keep you posted as soon as I had the time to get them in and tested...

/KC

Sorry for catching this late....

The little time I had over for gaming due to RL commitments have been pretty much A3 only. The center springs I got made are still in the box but hopefully things slows down coming months and I can install DCS again (new computer) and get on with it. :/

/KC

It took some time but last night I finally sat down and tested the new springs that I had made last year.

The first "prototype" spring that I used until now worked so so. It was to soft and that made it a bit tricky to fly jets. It also had problems keeping the stick vertical on it's own due to the Cougar handle being top heavy. Solved that by mounting some weights back on the handle to balance it out.

The new spring I installed last night are stiffer but still very smooth and it's very easy to move the stick and with zero play on both axis.

The other thing that I hated with stock springs beside the very hard springs and the bad gimbal design was the difference in force needed when moving the stick diagonally compared to up/down/left/right.

With this center spring the force required is the same no matter what direction you move the stick. Finally my Cougar is what I wan't it to be and much more suitable to my flying style. Works great in the Huey/Shark, WWII prop planes as well as jets. Bring on DCS 2.5, I'm ready

The spring can still be improved a bit by removing one coil at the base thats not needed. Will try to get new ones made now that I know exactly whats needed.

Will post pictures and spring dimensions later.

/KC