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#4140639 - 06/29/15 01:30 AM Re: Bodnar board equivalents/alternatives? [Re: CyBerkut]  
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Originally Posted By: CyBerkut
[quote=- Ice]
An Arduino (Uno, for instance) is not a USB/HID device as it comes out of the box. You have to do some extra programming in order to make it be seen as a USB/HID... then you can use the card (and its inputs) like a joystick/HOTAS.


With MMJoy Firmware - loaded through USB cable a ~10$ Arduino Pro Micro became a HID joystick controller, with inputs for 64 buttons + 6 encoders, 8 axis (14 bits), 8 way HAT. smile

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4140644 - 06/29/15 01:47 AM Re: Bodnar board equivalents/alternatives? [Re: Sokol1]  
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Originally Posted By: Sokol1
Originally Posted By: CyBerkut
[quote=- Ice]
An Arduino (Uno, for instance) is not a USB/HID device as it comes out of the box. You have to do some extra programming in order to make it be seen as a USB/HID... then you can use the card (and its inputs) like a joystick/HOTAS.


With MMJoy Firmware - loaded through USB cable a ~10$ Arduino Pro Micro became a HID joystick controller, with inputs for 64 buttons + 6 encoders, 8 axis (14 bits), 8 way HAT. smile


Preach it, brother!

Just remember, I'm sitting with the choir. Ice is out there in the pews. winkngrin

Seriously though, Ice... two of those Arduino Pro Micro boards and a bit of time learning to use MMJoy can get you there at low cost (leaves more money for buying other stuff/sims/plane modules). And there is a good MMJoy thread running here at SimHQ, that can be very helpful. Sokol wouldn't lead you astray! smile

#4140737 - 06/29/15 11:55 AM Re: Bodnar board equivalents/alternatives? [Re: - Ice]  
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Let me steer the conversation in another direction for a bit --- wiring. What types of wires should I be looking at when connecting my switches/buttons/etc. to whatever board I am using? Are certain types of wires better than others?

As for MMJoy, I've seen that thread but largely ignored it because I don't understand it. mycomputer
The first post alone was dizzy so I couldn't really appreciate what it can do.


- Ice
#4140993 - 06/29/15 07:04 PM Re: Bodnar board equivalents/alternatives? [Re: - Ice]  
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Your choice of board may narrow down your better choices on that.

I like multi-colored flat ribbon cable.

- Look at your selected board(s) to see what connectors can be used with them.
- Then look to see if there are crimp on connectors of that type available.
- Then select ribbon cable that is compatible with those crimp on connectors.

Connectors may not be a possibility for some boards... Bodnar's BU0836X boards, for instance, have you pushing your wires into the connector that is already on the board. Even then, though, having a multi-colored ribbon cable can make it easier to keep track of which wire is for what button, etc.

#4141023 - 06/29/15 08:17 PM Re: Bodnar board equivalents/alternatives? [Re: - Ice]  
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Well, I assume I can separate the flat ribbon cable into pairs of wires, right?

£4 for a meter - on this store


- Ice
#4141025 - 06/29/15 08:20 PM Re: Bodnar board equivalents/alternatives? [Re: - Ice]  
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Or even cheaper on eBay


- Ice
#4141791 - 07/01/15 05:12 PM Re: Bodnar board equivalents/alternatives? [Re: - Ice]  
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Originally Posted By: - Ice

As for MMJoy, I've seen that thread but largely ignored it because I don't understand it. mycomputer
The first post alone was dizzy so I couldn't really appreciate what it can do.


MMjoy2 first post edited, please see if became more understandable, ignore the obsolete part. smile

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3899105/MMJoy/Mmjoy2_-_Build_your_own_#Post3899105

#4141827 - 07/01/15 06:40 PM Re: Bodnar board equivalents/alternatives? [Re: - Ice]  
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From what I understand now, MMjoy2 is a board that needs a firmware flash and a 8x8 matrix so that it can handle 64 buttons, otherwise it only has 8 buttons, 6 encoders, 8 rotaries, and an 8-way hat, is that correct?

Your "compatible arduino boards" links are 404 btw.

I really need to investigate this "matrix" thing. I think I got the basic idea but "understanding" and "working model" are two very different things in my experience. biggrin


- Ice
#4141846 - 07/01/15 07:26 PM Re: Bodnar board equivalents/alternatives? [Re: - Ice]  
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Hi Ice,
I worked in electronics once and have used the matrix system for several designs so I'll try and explain how it works.

If you think of a piece of graph paper with 8 lines drawn across and 8 lines drawn vertically. Where each crossed would be where you would put a switch connecting the vertical (column) to the horizontal (row).

The controller sends a pulse or voltage on to the first column and then checks all the rows in turn to see if any of them have the pulse or voltage. If it has, that is registered. If not, it checks the next row and so on. At the end of the 8 rows it moves the pulse/voltage to the next column and checks the rows again.

At the end of a complete scan (8 rows times 8 columns = 64 possible key presses) the process is repeated constantly. Remember this is going on at a very high speed. That's how the controller gets confirmation that a key has been pressed.

Now the 8 columns and 8 rows if drawn side by side would give us 16 binary digits that can be 0 or 1. So when the controller detects a pulse/voltage on a row it takes a note of the binary code on the columns/rows and that is then used to make a keycode.

You sometimes see key matrices with diodes in line with the switch. A diode only conducts in one direction so the pulse/voltage can only go from the column to the row.

If you accidentally pressed 2 keys at the same time you would end up with a code that was not what it should be for either of the keys. That's because, without the diodes to block it the pulse/voltage could travel from one column across one switch along a row to another column and via that to another row. That's what the diodes are there to stop.

I hope this makes sense to you and helps your understanding. Trust me it's harder to try and explain that actually build.

Cheers,

Andy


Andy's simpit: http://www.simpit.me.uk
#4141886 - 07/01/15 08:56 PM Re: Bodnar board equivalents/alternatives? [Re: - Ice]  
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Originally Posted By: - Ice
...otherwise it only has 8 buttons, 6 encoders, 8 rotaries, and an 8-way hat, is that correct?


No, a Arduino board without a program (firmware) is nothing for the computer, you need flash the firmware - did from someone or write your own - to the board became a device for the computer. And not all Arduino board has USB support (the liked ones has).

Links - for postage bellow in that page - fixed.

Matrix for Dummies. smile


free photo hosting

In this example, you have a 6 column x 2 rows wiring a 4 buttons and (POV) HAT to BU0836 (from the possible 12 positions (6x2) was used 8).

The diodes in one pole of each switch avoid that be pressing 2, 3 button at same time a a 4th "ghost" button became on.

Notice that in this example some column wires (green, light blue) goes for 2 different switchs. Is this the trick:

In a full (6x6) matrix each column wire goes for 6 (not 36 as before) switch poles and each row wire goes for 6 switch poles.

Highly advisable use colored wires to do this. smile




Last edited by Sokol1; 07/01/15 11:35 PM. Reason: correct number
#4141933 - 07/01/15 10:42 PM Re: Bodnar board equivalents/alternatives? [Re: - Ice]  
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Haha! Thanks for the help guys!

I think I know how the matrix works... in theory. Basically, in a 8x8 matrix, row 1 can work for 8 switches, row 2 can work for 8 switches, and so on until row 8. Like this:

R1, C1
R1, C2
R1, C3
....
R1, C8

then

R2, C1
R2, C2
R2, C3
....
R2, C8

I think that's right so far.

It's the actual "how do I build this damn thing" that worries me.


Sokol,
So an Arduino board is like a blank slate, yes? By itself it is nothing, but depends on the firmware, it can be anything. Is that right?

As for your picture... I see the gray/blue wire is the ground?? Then I see two switches has a blue and green wire that goes to the switch and into the hat as well. Why does the yellow and orange not have this?


- Ice
#4141955 - 07/01/15 11:35 PM Re: Bodnar board equivalents/alternatives? [Re: - Ice]  
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Quote:
So an Arduino board is like a blank slate, yes? By itself it is nothing, but depends on the firmware, it can be anything. Is that right?


Correctly.

Quote:

As for your picture... I see the gray/blue wire is the ground??


In Matrix you dont think in ground wire (or signal) only "columns" and "lines".

Ground (+5V and signal) is only for axis input - see this potentiometer wired in left side in other row of connector (ANALOG INPUTS).

Quote:

Then I see two switches has a blue and green wire that goes to the switch and into the hat as well. Why does the yellow and orange not have this?


Because the yellow and orange are "columns" - C1 and C2 - not used by HAT.

HAT use

C3 - green
C4 - blue light
C5 - blue dark
C6 - purple

x

R6 - orange

HAT need be wired in this specific positions because there 2 buttons pressed at same time, e.g. N+E, press the intermediary NE, this is defined in firmware.

When you add more switch's to this matrix, you see that this yellow and orange goes for another switch's poles, wired together by other column (like the R-1 did with S1, S2, S3, S4). This is exemplified be C3 and C4.

In the same way this orange R6 that goes for HAT goes for 2 additional switch's.

And all 4 column that goes for HAT - C3, C4, C5, C6 - goes for other 5 switch each in a full occupied matrix.

For example C6 goes for S30, S24, S18, S12, S6.

As AndyB say above this is more easy to practice than explain. smile

#4145437 - 07/11/15 04:27 PM Re: Bodnar board equivalents/alternatives? [Re: - Ice]  
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