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#4127245 - 06/01/15 01:33 AM Questions for the experienced players  
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 139
BKCason Offline
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 139
Maryland, USA
Some background: Back in the day, I played flights sims with WW1, WW2, and jet aircraft. The Dynamix sim Red Baron was the one I remember the most fondly. I have not really played any flight simulations since then.

I am a bit of a history buff and, given the WW1 centennial going on, I think I would like try another WWI sim and I am considering starting either WOFF or RoF but first I have some questions for the experienced players of OFF/WOFF and/or RoF:

Where do I start? just go with OFF and see how I like it then upgrade to WOFF? Or, jump right into WOFF or RoF?

Can I play with a fairly casual approach and take lots of time to reclaim my past experience with flight sims? or do I get thrown right into the deep water? I suspect the realism in modern flight sims is way beyond what I saw back in the day.

I don't have any recent control devices. I have CH joystick that is pre-USB which I guess is useless now a days. From what I have read online the cost of controllers can run from $20-$30 at the low end to hundreds of dollars at the high end. I was partial to the CH Products and would like to know: are they are still a good product?

What controllers would you recommend to get started? I would rather keep the cost down at first but I don't want to buy cheap stuff that will only frustrate me when I try to use it.

If you play both RoF & WOFF, how would you rate them for the player who is not a die-hard flight sim guy? I am willing to learn and to be patient while I learn but I don't think I will enjoy a game that is only enjoyable if you are a dedicated player who is a real-life pilot. Oh yeah, I am no spring chicken so my reflexes are ordinary, at best, so I try to avoid twitch games.

Sorry about all the questions but I would like some input before I make any decisions.

Edit: My PC is an Intel I5 processor with 16GB of memory. The video card is an NVIDIA GTX 660 with 2GB of on-board ram. I use a 27" IPS monitor for my main monitor and a 19" monitor as the second display. I use 2 monitors when I work from home. From what I can tell, this is good enough for either WOFF or RoF right now. Hopefully I am right about this.

Last edited by BKCason; 06/01/15 01:45 AM. Reason: add PC info

Regards,
Ben Cason
"I shall endeavor to persevere" - Chief Dan George in "Outlaw Josey Wales"

#4127247 - 06/01/15 01:53 AM Re: Questions for the experienced players [Re: BKCason]  
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,129
DukeIronHand Offline
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,129
High over the Front
No sense in going to OFF when WOFF v2.5 is clearly much superior.
As for "easing back in" then WOFF is your baby again as, with the awesome Workshop feature, you can tailor make your experience into whatever you want it to be - super easy or "full real" or somewhere in between.

As for a stick there are quite a few that do a good job. I currently use a Thrustmaster T16000M and am quite happy with it.
Also, IMHO, TrackIR is as critical as a joystick but some manage without.
Let see...did I hit everything? Oh...ROF. I have no experience with it but some here play it also.
If I had to go with just one though it would be WOFF. It's the only sim I have played in a long while.

#4127251 - 06/01/15 02:22 AM Re: Questions for the experienced players [Re: BKCason]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 578
OvStachel Offline
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Long Island, NY
Hello BK,

Welcome to the WOFF forum and thanks for joining/having interest in WOFF.

Before we get into WOFF and ROF for that matter, let's take a step back and think about what made RB3D so memorable for you and many of us that presently fly WOFF. For starters, the history and deep campaign engine that it offered... plus the ability to mod it to nearly anything possible with so many mods available. If you remember Hell's Angels, then you remember me. Like you, I love the history behind WWI and all the caveats that go with it. The time period, the essence of early flight and how each side developed into a war machine from 1914 through to 1918. RB3D was the first game of it's kind and had a strong community that backed it up with many mods, forums, websites and help to boot.

Well, flash-forward to today and modern Flight Simming, and you get WOFF. Many of us on this forum came from that era and know what you mean. 3 of us on the Dev Team actually worked together in the past on other projects and RB3D stuff... plus many other sims. Winder, who heads the whole project and team is a scenery guru.. and I mean Grand Guru. For all the flight and combat sims I have flown (an I am talking about true sims, not the super-graphic canned world stuff), I've never seen such amazing and life-like scenery in front of me. So you have found the right place. It's all here... the history, the depth, the atmosphere, the discussions.. all of it. That is what makes WOFF as good as it is.. we all have the same expectations. We want to feel that castor oil smacking us in the face while we dance the game of death with the Aces of the past. As a team, we go out of our way to find every little detail, historic and design to bring out that life-like feel that gives our campaign engine so much atmosphere. We do this, because we're nuts about it.

Moving into WOFF, you have the choice to approach it from any level you want. You can take-up a Be2c for flight training in lower England and take it one step at a time. You can fly German and begin with the Aviatik B.I which is unarmed and flies slow and easy. Or if you prefer, go head-on in a Camel in the spring of 1918 over Flanders duking it out with Jasta 11.

WOFF is all what you make it.. there is something in it for all levels. The Campaign engine is unlike anything before, and will most likely never be matched again. It's deep with history, filled with information and never a dull moment exists with hundreds of live flights surrounding your ever mission. Nothing is scripted, ever mission you fly is unlike the one before... how long can you last.

As far as flight controls.. I, like you, am not a big spender when it comes to joysticks and controls, but in the end, it was all worth it. For the longest time, I flew with a twist stick till I finally bought rudder pedals. I never looked back. They're great. I use Saitek products. I think they look ugly, but they work flawlessly and never have configuration or compatibility issues. Again, my personal opinion.

So to sum it all up. WOFF is massive... but like any game, it's all what YOU as the user makes it. Jump in and take it up for a flight. I promise you not only will you be taken back to those good old RB3D days.. but once you see it in front of you and it's set up to handle your PC, you will never look at any other WWI Flight sim the same again.

As for ROF... I have it. I am a campaign guy, graphics don't impress me, depth does. I deleted it 30 mins after I flew it. Again.. my opinion and of course I'm biased, let's be fair. I'm an old RB3D'er.

All the best,

OvS

Last edited by OvStachel; 06/01/15 02:29 AM.

The Black Baron of Boistrancourt returns!!

I'd rather die fighting, than live for nothing. - Gen. G.S. Patton
#4127265 - 06/01/15 03:31 AM Re: Questions for the experienced players [Re: BKCason]  
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 283
busdriver Offline
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 283
BK...like the other two, I'd suggest going with WOFF.

Like OvS, IMO the campaign in WOFF is without peer. ROF airplanes are harder/trickier to fly. I prefer the graphics of ROF but I have a fairly high end CPU and GPU, and play on a 46" TV.

I have more FUN with WOFF!

As far a kit to get...TrackIR like Duke said.

#4127267 - 06/01/15 03:45 AM Re: Questions for the experienced players [Re: BKCason]  
Joined: Jun 2012
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Robert_Wiggins Offline
BWOC Survivor!...So Far!!
Robert_Wiggins  Offline
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Lindsay, Ontario, Canada
BK there is one feature of WOFF that has not yet been mentioned. That feature is called "QC" for "Quick Combat". When using the QC feature you can decide to fly free flight without confrontations with enemy craft, or you can decide to have combat in which you can select how many you want in your squadron and how many enemy craft you will confront. You also have the capability of setting the skill set of the pilots. WOFF is extremely tailorable to your experience needs and you can specify in the "Workshop" that you pilot never dies. This capability will allow you to hone your skills before you go to the WOFF "Campaign" mode in which your pilot will begin a career and his progress is logged.

It's a great sim in my estimation! I also honed my skills in RB3D back in the day and I feel WOFF is the best out there for single player immersion.

Last edited by Robert_Wiggins; 06/01/15 03:48 AM.

(System_Specs)
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Periphs: MS Sidewinder FFB2 Pro, TrackIR 4

#4127282 - 06/01/15 05:29 AM Re: Questions for the experienced players [Re: BKCason]  
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,776
Rick_Rawlings Offline
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,776
BK, WOFF IS the spiritual successor to those Dynamix sims many of us loved! That said, you can easily give both a try for a very reasonable price, and if you're going to spend a lot of money for peripherals that are flight sim specific, you should get the most use out of them as possible, no? For my money, RoF still has a feeling-of-flight edge, while WOFF has a feeling-of-war edge. A pretty good summary is: If you want to know what it's like to fly WWI planes, fly RoF, if you want to know what it's like to fly planes in WWI, fly WOFF. Or, try both! thumbsup

#4127290 - 06/01/15 07:23 AM Re: Questions for the experienced players [Re: BKCason]  
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 142
rockmedic109 Offline
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California
I have both WOFF and RoF. To really run a campaign in RoF requires a fan made add-on. The campaign that comes with it is less than stellar.

The WOFF campaign is miles ahead of the RoF campaign and better than the add on. WOFF has more ways of altering the campaign to suit your play style and you can fine tune it to give the best experience. I haven't fired up RoF since WOFF came out. The WOFF campaign is far more immersive.

WOFF's campaign is better than RB3D with the West Front Patch and Campaign Manager. And it is FAR better looking. If you enjoyed RB3D, you will love WOFF.

I play with a LogicTech Extreme 3D Pro. It is not excessively expensive and works very well.

You can't go wrong with either choice. If you want to fly online, RoF would be better. If you want to fly a single player campaign, WOFF would be the better the choice. Personally, I like WOFF better.

#4127319 - 06/01/15 10:55 AM Re: Questions for the experienced players [Re: BKCason]  
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,428
corsaire31 Offline
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,428
Toulouse, France
I've been playing OFF then WOFF as well as ROF (with Pat Wilson's Campaign Generator for offline play) for the last four years. I've been a member of online ROF squadrons as well ( Hellequins and Jasta 5 )

I like them both equally and spend just as much time with one or the other.

The single player campaign and the AI are better in WOFF, but the physics and feeling of flying is for me better in ROF (you will need some ROF practice to properly land a Nieuport 17 with some crosswind when in WOFF landings are a breeze) It is also more realistic on the engine handling (radiator control is important to keep the engine in the right temperature) This might be a bad point for you : looking at your post you seem to go for simple things. But there are "easy options" if you want. There are also many community mods to shape it to your taste, including better AI flying.

I used to fly with a Logitech Extreme 3D, Saitek quadrant (the three axes are used for power, radiator and mixture) and Saitek Rudder pedals; I have now replaced the joystick with a Thrustmaster T16000M which I find a lot more precise.

My advice is to have both. But the learning curve will be steeper with ROF and if you're not dedicated you might find it difficult.

Since the basic ROF game is free, I would say you can always download it and give it a try. There is a 70% discount at the moment on all planes and field mods as well as Channel Map.

Your PC can run both sims, no problem.

I am 63, so no spring chicken either... wink

Last edited by corsaire31; 06/01/15 11:15 AM.

Gigabyte Z87P-D3 - CPU I5 4670 Haswell @ 3.6Ghz - 8 Go Ram - GPU HD 7850 2Go OC - SSD Samsung 128Go - HD 2 x WD Black 1 To - 27" Iiyama Pro Lite - Logitech Extreme 3D Pro - Saitek Pro Flight Yoke - Rudder Pedals - Quadrant - Cessna Trim Wheel - Track IR 5 - Logitech G35 headset ... and a big coffee maker !
Flying in FSX/Air Hauler, Wings over Flanders Fields, Rise of Flight, IL2 1946 Hsfx, Condor soaring.
#4127322 - 06/01/15 11:05 AM Re: Questions for the experienced players [Re: BKCason]  
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,528
MFair Offline
Senior Member
MFair  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,528
The ThrustmasterT160000M is not too expensive and has twist stick rudder. I use CH pedals but the capability is there if you don't want to spend on pedals. TRackIR is a must as soon as you can swing for it.

I have not flown ROF so cannot comment on it, but if you loved Red Baron, you will be addicted, as I am, to WOFF.


Never approach a bull from the front, a horse from the rear or a fool from either end.
BOC Member since....I can't remember!
#4127340 - 06/01/15 12:11 PM Re: Questions for the experienced players [Re: BKCason]  
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 740
Cavaliere57 Offline
Member
Cavaliere57  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 740
Tuscany coast,Italy
Couple of advices,your machine is pretty fit to run the simulator,about controller,with a Logitech extreme 3D you'll have a very good controller (with rudder feature as well) for some 30/$
About what sim,well let alone OFF,it's the past,and unless you want to fly online with friends,WOFF is the way to go,it's much more immersive than RoF,no match there!AI it's pretty good,graphics are on high level and the campaign is very entertaining,lots of planes to fly,and lots of mission types and tasks to go for.
Last but not least the community and Support,for WOFF are top notch,and that cannot be said about RoF.
Just take a look at the various threads and you'll have an idea of what we are talking about.Eye candies are good,but to enjoy a game,you need depth a working community and support,and WOFF has it all.
P.S.
don let you be fooled,because graphics in WOFF are wonderfull,just look at the screenshots thread! thumbsup


" In vino veritas "
#4127347 - 06/01/15 12:35 PM Re: Questions for the experienced players [Re: BKCason]  
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 833
Creaghorn Offline
Member
Creaghorn  Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 833
N�rnberg Frankonia
As a bit of a bump, a bit of shameless selfpromotion and to show you how WW1, the graphics, the immersion and historical facts are a hughe part of WOFF, you can watch the following series I made. New episodes are coming as I go as long as he's alive. That will give you a taste how WOFF is:


Daniel Brasco




Last edited by Creaghorn; 06/01/15 12:36 PM.
#4127364 - 06/01/15 01:12 PM Re: Questions for the experienced players [Re: BKCason]  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,064
Hellshade Online content
Hellshade
Hellshade  Online Content
Hellshade
Senior Member

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,064
Florida
I don't know anyone who loves single player campaigns for sims that doesn't love WOFF. Additionally, WOFF is OBDs sole focus, so it gets regular patches, add-ons and expansions. See the news section for the upcoming 2.06 patch and 6 new planes (complete with historical squadrons for the campaign)for the Balance of Power add-on. It also has tons of options to customize how you like to fly. If there's a downside to WOFF, it's that there is currently no multiplayer and it doesn't have multicore support but with such active developer support, anything is possible in the future. Just check out the complete list of patch notes to see how well WOFF is supported.

History of Changes for WOFF V2.xx Expansion
http://www.wingsoverflandersfields.com/ExpHistoryofChanges.html

History of Changes for WOFF V1.xx
http://www.wingsoverflandersfields.com/HistoryofChanges.html


RoF on the other hand has a great feeling of flight, multiplayer capability and a newer graphics engine with multicore support, plus the PWCG user made single player campaign mod is very good. The downsides are that the developer is now focused on making WW2 flight sims and so the updates for RoF are not nearly as frequent as WOFF. Mostly a single new plane every 6 months or so. Also, the AI is not challenging at all (continual split S to just above ground level then long, wide circles until shot down) and the developers have flat out stated that they have no current plans to update the AI. On the plus side though, you can download RoF for free to try it and just buy the planes that you want to fly.

I own them both. I fly them both, but being a single player guy, I spend the vast majority of my time in WOFF. If I was a multiplayer guy, I'd be in RoF.


Flying Wings Over Flanders Fields Ultimate Edition 4.x
videos at www.youtube.com/hellshade68

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#4127398 - 06/01/15 02:08 PM Re: Questions for the experienced players [Re: BKCason]  
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 139
BKCason Offline
Member
BKCason  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2015
Posts: 139
Maryland, USA
I just want to say Thanks! to everyone that responded so promptly. All your advice and suggestions reinforced the feeling that I already had but needed a little nudge to push me into action.

I have ordered MSFS3 from Amazon along with a Thrustmaster T16000M [on backorder]. I downloaded WOFF V1.0 and Add-on #1 [gotta have the Eindecker smile esp. for a sale price]. I will probably go ahead and get the WOFF V2.0 so I have the best experience right from the start.

It now becomes a waiting game while all the pieces arrive and I can spend a weekend installing things. I also need to tidy up my computer desk. It is too cluttered right now for flight operations. That will make my wife happier too.

In the meantime, I have plenty of reading to keep me entertained. I am about 75% through "The First Air War, 1914-1918" by Lee Kennett. This is a good read [re-read actually] and covers a wide area at higher level [no pun intended]. Next I will start into reading/re-reading some of the biographies/autobiographies of the pilots. McCudden, Rickenbacker, Guynemer, Boelcke are all on the reading list. There is a vast amount of books on WW1 so I will also delve into action on the ground & at sea. Did I mention I am a bit of history buff & read a lot?


Regards,
Ben Cason
"I shall endeavor to persevere" - Chief Dan George in "Outlaw Josey Wales"

#4127414 - 06/01/15 02:34 PM Re: Questions for the experienced players [Re: BKCason]  
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 102
Lewis Offline
Member
Lewis  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 102
Maritime Oregon.
Two WWI era authors of note are Rene Martel: 'French Strategic and Tactical Bombardment Forces of World War I', and Fredrick Libby: 'Horses don't fly'.

Both two-seater gunners and pilots with interesting autobiographies with long careers in WWI.

Martel brings to life the rich history of the little known French bomber aircrews from early 1915 onwards.

Libby's experience is of an American who joined the RFC through a whim that caught himself and a friend while traveling in Canada, and became a gunner and later a pilot in a Royal Air Factory Fe2b outfit during the Fokker Scourge.


Barmy OFFer in questionable standing, maybe collapsed in a corner?

Join the few, the touched, the moon spacklers.

[image]http://combatace.com/uploads/profile/photo-65486.jpg[/image]
#4127415 - 06/01/15 02:35 PM Re: Questions for the experienced players [Re: BKCason]  
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 659
Maeran Offline
Member
Maeran  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 659
UK
I think you will find quite a few like - minded folks here. Welcome aboard, BKCason!

#4127436 - 06/01/15 02:58 PM Re: Questions for the experienced players [Re: BKCason]  
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,532
Raine Offline
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Raine  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,532
New Brunswick, Canada
BK,

You've made a very good choice. I own both WOFF and ROF, but flew mainly in campaign mode. An ardent ROF supporter, I was reluctant after my investment in ROF to test the waters with WOFF. But last year I received an Amazon gift card for a present and decided to grab CFS3 on Amazon and give WOFF a try.

I suppose the answer to your question is that I have flown ROF only once since. The immersion of WOFF is addictive. Add to that a mature, friendly, funny, and helpful community and terrifically dedicated and supportive developers and you have a great sim experience.

#4127458 - 06/01/15 03:52 PM Re: Questions for the experienced players [Re: BKCason]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,708
Hasse Offline
Member
Hasse  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,708
Nothing beats WOFF when it comes to the single player experience. But I also own and play ROF. It's perfect for some multi-player flying.


"Upon my word I've had as much excitement on a car as in the air, especially since the R.F.C. have had women drivers."

James McCudden, Five Years in the Royal Flying Corps
#4127478 - 06/01/15 04:38 PM Re: Questions for the experienced players [Re: BKCason]  
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 740
Cavaliere57 Offline
Member
Cavaliere57  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 740
Tuscany coast,Italy
Originally Posted By: BKCason
I just want to say Thanks! to everyone that responded so promptly. All your advice and suggestions reinforced the feeling that I already had but needed a little nudge to push me into action.

I have ordered MSFS3 from Amazon along with a Thrustmaster T16000M [on backorder]. I downloaded WOFF V1.0 and Add-on #1 [gotta have the Eindecker smile esp. for a sale price]. I will probably go ahead and get the WOFF V2.0 so I have the best experience right from the start.

It now becomes a waiting game while all the pieces arrive and I can spend a weekend installing things. I also need to tidy up my computer desk. It is too cluttered right now for flight operations. That will make my wife happier too.

In the meantime, I have plenty of reading to keep me entertained. I am about 75% through "The First Air War, 1914-1918" by Lee Kennett. This is a good read [re-read actually] and covers a wide area at higher level [no pun intended]. Next I will start into reading/re-reading some of the biographies/autobiographies of the pilots. McCudden, Rickenbacker, Guynemer, Boelcke are all on the reading list. There is a vast amount of books on WW1 so I will also delve into action on the ground & at sea. Did I mention I am a bit of history buff & read a lot?


I warmly advise you to upgrade to WOFF 2.5,there are a lot of new things in there,and the upcoming patch and relative add-on will increase the value a bit more,it's a must! Believe me...


" In vino veritas "
#4127504 - 06/01/15 05:27 PM Re: Questions for the experienced players [Re: BKCason]  
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,428
corsaire31 Offline
Member
corsaire31  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,428
Toulouse, France
Of course asking the question on the WOFF forum the answers are no surprise.
If you ask the same question on the ROF forum, you will get the opposite answers... hahaha
( Out of the 50 guys playing ROF regularly on the french Check Six forum these last years, I think we are only two playing WOFF and posting here ( Action Joe and myself ) )

As I said before, we are happy guys to have the possibility of flying these two fine sims which have both complementary gameplay.


Last edited by corsaire31; 06/01/15 05:32 PM.

Gigabyte Z87P-D3 - CPU I5 4670 Haswell @ 3.6Ghz - 8 Go Ram - GPU HD 7850 2Go OC - SSD Samsung 128Go - HD 2 x WD Black 1 To - 27" Iiyama Pro Lite - Logitech Extreme 3D Pro - Saitek Pro Flight Yoke - Rudder Pedals - Quadrant - Cessna Trim Wheel - Track IR 5 - Logitech G35 headset ... and a big coffee maker !
Flying in FSX/Air Hauler, Wings over Flanders Fields, Rise of Flight, IL2 1946 Hsfx, Condor soaring.
#4127509 - 06/01/15 05:43 PM Re: Questions for the experienced players [Re: corsaire31]  
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,803
dutch Offline
Member
dutch  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,803
EURO-zone
Originally Posted By: corsaire31
I've been playing OFF then WOFF as well as ROF (with Pat Wilson's Campaign Generator for offline play) for the last four years. I've been a member of online ROF squadrons as well ( Hellequins and Jasta 5 )

I like them both equally and spend just as much time with one or the other.

The single player campaign and the AI are better in WOFF, but the physics and feeling of flying is for me better in ROF (you will need some ROF practice to properly land a Nieuport 17 with some crosswind when in WOFF landings are a breeze) It is also more realistic on the engine handling (radiator control is important to keep the engine in the right temperature) This might be a bad point for you : looking at your post you seem to go for simple things. But there are "easy options" if you want. There are also many community mods to shape it to your taste, including better AI flying.

I used to fly with a Logitech Extreme 3D, Saitek quadrant (the three axes are used for power, radiator and mixture) and Saitek Rudder pedals; I have now replaced the joystick with a Thrustmaster T16000M which I find a lot more precise.

My advice is to have both. But the learning curve will be steeper with ROF and if you're not dedicated you might find it difficult.

Since the basic ROF game is free, I would say you can always download it and give it a try. There is a 70% discount at the moment on all planes and field mods as well as Channel Map.

Your PC can run both sims, no problem.

I am 63, so no spring chicken either... wink



I can say nothing more old man LOL, only that the RoF planes are much better looking. A good alternative for the RoF campaign is the PW-CG. But I have also noticed that the campaign in rof [=career] has been much improved.

The point to a better AI in WoFF from Corsaire, so what, will you say, is this so important.
Let me explain the importance of the AI, like in the RoF career the AI mostly making circles when the plane has been hit, while the AI in WoFF is trying to get home. I do the same running away, when I do not see any change to go further.
Another point my Fee in RoF is attacking a single EIII the others will not help, because they are programed for balloon busting.
Or Flying a Roland just below planes from the elite N3, I could see the Stock emblem, but they are just flying on, gues no time for an easy claim.
I could be wrong but I never saw this happen in WoFF, think this brings you much a more immerse flight, when the AI is not doing always the same trick but is acting like a real human. That is the a strong point from WoFF.

Last edited by dutch; 06/01/15 05:48 PM.
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Speaking of flat earthers
by Ajay. 08/23/19 12:55 AM
63...63...63...63
by 462cid. 08/22/19 10:16 PM
Say WHAT?!?!?
by vonBaur. 08/22/19 09:53 PM
disturbing image for Flat Earthers
by Tom_Weiss. 08/22/19 11:47 AM
Lost my best friend
by NH2112. 08/22/19 03:25 AM
Ramree Island WW2
by oldgrognard. 08/22/19 02:24 AM
Pilot films being in the water after crash
by oldgrognard. 08/21/19 09:48 PM
Request for help!
by Fracture. 08/21/19 07:36 PM
Bye bye iTunes
by Red2112. 08/21/19 06:33 PM
intruder tries to infiltrate NAS Jacksonville
by Tom_Weiss. 08/21/19 12:21 PM
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