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#4126747 - 05/30/15 10:18 AM Does anyone ever get "support" from the Support flight?  
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It's hard to tell in the swirling world of aerial combat I suppose but I THINK I have seen it once in dozens of combats.
Perhaps the wording of their role during a mission briefing can be changed to "...will take off after you and might be in the area and then maybe help you during combat."
I am being somewhat "tongue in cheek" here but am serious about removing the word "support" from the briefing unless someone sees something different then me.
Also I am trying to avoid the use of the "AI Always Engages" in the Workshop for obvious reasons.

#4126749 - 05/30/15 10:35 AM Re: Does anyone ever get "support" from the Support flight? [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Originally Posted By: DukeIronHand

Perhaps the wording of their role during a mission briefing can be changed to "...will take off after you and might be in the area and then maybe help you during combat."
.....


Maybe change the wording to "moral support flight?" I'm sure they are rooting for you! beercheers


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#4126751 - 05/30/15 10:48 AM Re: Does anyone ever get "support" from the Support flight? [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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In my experience,the "support" leave the flight and steer somewhere else after a couple of waypoints,I have never seen them follow all the way to the objective,except a couple of times,with RNAS Campaign,and they were all Airports strikes,they stayed up there and engaged a Hun patrol coming to harass us.


" In vino veritas "
#4126760 - 05/30/15 11:15 AM Re: Does anyone ever get "support" from the Support flight? [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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I usually cycle through missions until I get one without the "support". Leaving a support flight sometimes even adds to the squadron causalities because I never see them to know how they died.

Also, while reading the combat reports from RNAS, I have not come across any hostile aircraft, deep offensive or line patrol missions where both A and B flights flew the same path. Often times, one would fly in the morning or afternoon and the other would fly in the early evening hours. Also, I'm not certain, but there are too many planes that fly the mission during times when there is no offensive especially in 1916/1917.

Me thinks that it would be cool to simulate real patrols in WOFF.

#4126761 - 05/30/15 11:16 AM Re: Does anyone ever get "support" from the Support flight? [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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"Moral Support Flight"...ha!

And that would also be fine C57.
Let "A" flight have their own mission and their own waypoints. Remove "Support" from the mission briefing.
If there is a campaign need for a "squadron size" patrol then put them all in one "flight" to reduce AI oddities.

I would rather have that then watch them continuously fly on by, sometimes quite close, while myself and the rest of "B" Flight fight for our virtual lives.

#4126763 - 05/30/15 11:21 AM Re: Does anyone ever get "support" from the Support flight? [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Simultaneous post with you OldHat.

I tried your AI awareness trick in a very minor manner (decreased by one number) but I think I will ratchet it down quite a bit.
The difference is subtle, and not being an AI mind reader, may be tough to quantify.
I will certainly say I saw it make a change in AI behavior on one occasion. A Hun patrol broke off their landing pattern to attack me because I was passing by. Never saw that before.

#4126766 - 05/30/15 11:33 AM Re: Does anyone ever get "support" from the Support flight? [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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I suspect they will attack or aid you if they are within a certain range. What the effective range is remains unknown to me. I have often lead my flight back to keep "A" flight close to us when patrolling. Sometimes they help and sometimes not. If there is a critical range that affects "A" flights decision to help, I wish I knew what it was and I could use it to advantage.


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#4126770 - 05/30/15 11:46 AM Re: Does anyone ever get "support" from the Support flight? [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Well, maybe it's possible to code the AI of A-Flight in a way, that the Leader switches from "Follow Mission Waypoints" to "Escort Player Flight" every 10 Minutes. As soon as the Waypoint "Player Flight" is reached, it switches back to "Follow Mission Waypoints" again. This Way, they stay close to you, but drift away every now and then, like they are inspecting something, that requires a look or two...

#4126771 - 05/30/15 11:47 AM Re: Does anyone ever get "support" from the Support flight? [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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I think you are partially correct Robert.
It is, almost certainly IMHO, a combination of a unknown (except by OldHat IIRC) "AI awareness radius" plus the timed "Is the enemy around?" check mentioned by OldHat.

#4126772 - 05/30/15 11:56 AM Re: Does anyone ever get "support" from the Support flight? [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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1 in 12 sounds generous to me. I*'ve tailed them and stuck very close to them. EA have passed very close to us and even then they seldom attack. They seem quite happy to lead the EA to us then flee for the nearest airbase while we clear their tails of attacking EA.

#4126774 - 05/30/15 12:02 PM Re: Does anyone ever get "support" from the Support flight? [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Well, after looking at the simulation.xml file, I maybe wrong, but I think this is how it works...

Click to reveal..
An AI plane will "scan" the sky by cycling through 4 views (front, up, right and left - not below since they can't see through the craft) every 12 seconds (or as dictated by the file). So, it will "scan" in front (~60 degree angle) for 12 secs, then to the right for 12 secs, etc... By the time it scans in front again, then almost 1 minute has passed.

This explains why "A flight" will never see the enemy (or you) below them unless they are in a position to "see" and are scanning the sky at that time.

The distance range is the same as it is in workshop for label ID. That is why the AI will not react to seeing AA inside their territory because the flight is too far away to be ID'd. If the AI can ID each other, then they will engage or run away.

#4126775 - 05/30/15 12:04 PM Re: Does anyone ever get "support" from the Support flight? [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Well I see it's not only me then.

I get AI limitations, etc, but the performance of "A" Flight is quite the "immersion buzzkill" and needs immediate attention.
A change may be quite simple...I think?
What makes this all particularly odd is it seems the enemy AI flights have no problem hunting you down - or joining a dogfight already in progress.

#4126777 - 05/30/15 12:11 PM Re: Does anyone ever get "support" from the Support flight? [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Uh oh.
I was trying to be vague to avoid a move to the "forum of death".
Maybe the use of the "Spoiler Alert" will circumvent that!

#4126799 - 05/30/15 03:06 PM Re: Does anyone ever get "support" from the Support flight? [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Since I usually make a shortcut by skipping the "circle and climbing phase" using the "next waypoint" command, I'm usually way far ahead of the "support flight" and leave them live their own life... smile2


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#4126819 - 05/30/15 04:37 PM Re: Does anyone ever get "support" from the Support flight? [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Originally Posted By: DukeIronHand
Well I see it's not only me then.

I get AI limitations, etc, but the performance of "A" Flight is quite the "immersion buzzkill" and needs immediate attention.
A change may be quite simple...I think?
What makes this all particularly odd is it seems the enemy AI flights have no problem hunting you down - or joining a dogfight already in progress.


Quite right,if enemy AI spots you even at a lower altitude,why not Support? I think that support as I said before,does its job only when "it's around" in fact the two times I had support from A flight,they were on site and well above us.But as I said,most of the times,even though they are meant to go all the way to the target as per briefing,usuaslly leave the party after a couple of waypoints.Probably they go back to the Bar for a pint!


" In vino veritas "
#4126828 - 05/30/15 05:22 PM Re: Does anyone ever get "support" from the Support flight? [Re: MudWasp]  
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Originally Posted By: MudWasp
1 in 12 sounds generous to me. I*'ve tailed them and stuck very close to them. EA have passed very close to us and even then they seldom attack. They seem quite happy to lead the EA to us then flee for the nearest airbase while we clear their tails of attacking EA.



Maybe we're reading it wrong. Maybe we're "supporting" them!

#4126830 - 05/30/15 05:28 PM Re: Does anyone ever get "support" from the Support flight? [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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1 in 12 is quite generous MudWasp especially when I said "dozens"!
Hehe...

EDIT: Almost forgot. Thanks OldHat! That tidbit will be another cut & paste for the knowledge library.

Last edited by DukeIronHand; 05/30/15 05:31 PM.
#4126836 - 05/30/15 05:44 PM Re: Does anyone ever get "support" from the Support flight? [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Originally Posted By: DukeIronHand
1 in 12 is quite generous MudWasp especially when I said "dozens"!
Hehe...

EDIT: Almost forgot. Thanks OldHat! That tidbit will be another cut & paste for the knowledge library.


Ah, I must have miss read ya, or had a minor brain fart... winkngrin My apologies... I've only had them help me a handful of times in approximately 500 flights with 4 pilots I fly often from various nations.

Last edited by MudWasp; 05/30/15 05:50 PM. Reason: Brain fart
#4126867 - 05/30/15 07:27 PM Re: Does anyone ever get "support" from the Support flight? [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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I seem to remember from OFF BHaH, that the escorting fighters would defend your flight if you managed to keep up with them. Maybe more out of the fact that when the enemy planes descend in a screaming dive on you the escorts 'see' them first. I don't recall if there were settings in OFF to adjust this loyality.

Last edited by Lewis; 05/30/15 07:28 PM.

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#4126999 - 05/31/15 07:13 AM Re: Does anyone ever get "support" from the Support flight? [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Have some questions for you OldHat but I will send you a PM when I get them in a coherent fashion.

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