I think its just a sign of desperation. They've lost all credibility with simmers and they know it. I don't think BoS has sold like they had hoped at all. The casual gamers had to come from Steam and we can see how well BoS is doing on the Steam charts...its floundering. Loft was unconcerned with what was said here, but went ballistic when he saw the Metacritic reviews. So they had all their eggs in the casual gamer basket, that's for sure.

I really think they will try to milk what sales they can out of BoM with a minimum of effort and then pull up their stakes and cry Uncle. And of course they will blame us, even though we're not the target audience and I doubt there are many casual gamers visiting SimHQ to get the low down on the latest games. Loft has said casual gamers never visit forums (remember his "you are only the 5%" rant on the BoS forum). But yet we are also the reason BoS is not doing well with casual gamers. Nothing 1CGS does or says even makes sense.

And remember that review of BoS written by an EA game designer here on SimHQ last September or October. It all came true. Either build Gran Turismo or build Mario Karts, but don't try to put both in one game. The BoS planes are too hard for the casual gamers and the empty arcade design around the planes has lost the simmers. And right now 1CGS is ready to crucify anyone who points that out.

What a fiasco this turned out to be...

huh?? wha, wha, whaa??? guess that statement above just confirms "the cowboys have left the ranch and the dudes have taken over" arrogant idiots at the helm... the only way forward is down

The whole thread containing the quote I posted has now disappeared somewhere. That doesn't happen anymore though right? the moderation has changed right?

That's just not true! there's new guys like this one signing up all the time to discuss things on the forum

I like this part:

"Even if we stopped development tomorrow we have been one of the longest running commercial flight-sim teams ever assembled. Something to be proud of. And we did outside of the "glorious 90's" with our own money (ROF) and with budget's and timelines (1CGS) 1/5th the size of others. What have you done lately for the genre?"

First, he doesnt forget to take a jab at pretty much every flight sim developed up until now, and mostly at Olegs IL2 from the "glorious 90`s" (read: it was so mucheeasier back then).

Secondly, timeline? How much time does it take to make an all white map? Everything else was served to them on a plate.

I've supported it through my willingness to purchase products of this nature. You know, helping legitimize the existence of a developer by providing the financial incentive to create a product for a particular section of the consumer base.

It's pretty easy to be arrogant, it's a lot harder to display humility and admit "Yo, we screwed up on that one!" It's really easy to go the route of certain BoS forum posters and take up the name of the sim in the same way Normans and Saracens took up the banners of their preferred faiths.

That said, there are things to be positive about:

1.) We're in a day and age where we have the most direct means of communicating with developers short of actually going down to their offices and flipping a table or two.

2.) We're in a day and age where modding is quite prevalent and classic sims often get a facelift and update (BMS 4.32), for example) in order to extend play time. Often, modders outright turn a turd like CloD into something decent.

That said, good on JagdNeun for trying his best. For real, dude. They're set in their ways, but it's a good thing you at least tried to reason. We wouldn't be so displeased if the game wasn't great at its core.

"And remember that review of BoS written by an EA game designer here on SimHQ last September or October. It all came true. Either build Gran Turismo or build Mario Karts, but don't try to put both in one game"

Where I'd that post? Just interested to read it.

Cheers, MP

Was it this one...

Combat Ace Review BOS

Here: Creative Vision and Target Audience

Oh that looks like a great link BS.....I'm going to have to give that a going over...

Yep, I remember that, kind of says it all - and here several months later still holds true... reason I have not flown it since release.

I'll try and fly it, then get very, very bored with it. I'll look online and since I have the audacity to live in North America, I can never find decently filled servers.

I'm vastly disappointed that the game is fundamentally the same today as it was then, despite over half a year of updates and work on it.

I thought at first we were getting what we were getting because they didn't have the money to make more at the time. I realized sadly later that we got it because that was all they ever wanted to make.

The simple reality is Loft is killing the Il-2 franchise. If luthier put it in the hospital, Loft is just shuffling it off to hospice. Instead of fixing the mistakes made in CloD, or making ROF WWII edition, they went a total new direction to make WWI Doom...the game EVERYONE wanted (if everyone = Loft).

Why can't he bail and go work for Autodesk or something? They have that "we know what you want, you don't" mentality down pat, he'd be at home there.



The Jedi Master

Yeah, my feelings, too.

At first I thought "Woah, pretty amazing what they achieved in such a small time. It probably will be THE new WW2 combat flightsim once they add stuff like a decent SP campaign with squad management etc..."

By now I have realized that BoS/BoM will never become the flightsims I was hoping for. I still got my money's worth out of BoS but that's it for me.

I still have hope for DCS World to become bigger and better once the forever-delayed upgrade hits and we get new historical maps, but I'm resigned to the fact that BoS/BoM will never be more than "extra planes and maps" with the same gameplay limitations.

Someday I'll learn how to get more enjoyment out of that, but for now it's usually subsumed by my disappointment at "what could have been" when I try.



The Jedi Master

It totally will. It amuses me when the Nay-Saying Squadron of Stalingrad Sycophants™ scoff at the idea DCS doing well on the official BoS forums. The only thing they can point out in DCS is the delaying of an engine upgrade.

There's no denying DCS needs work, but the developers are addressing issues. They listen to their customers.

DCS will feature an experience:
-Free of arbitrary unlocks.
-Free of arbitrary visual presets.
-Robust singleplayer campaigns.
-One of the easiest to use editors available.
-Multiple eras in air combat.

BOS features:
-A singular focus on one theatre
-Presets because reasons.
-Unlocks because Loft thinks it rewards the player!
-An empty singleplayer campaign that Loft thinks is preferred to the RoF one because more people are using it. Is he oblivious or outright dishonest?
-An editor that could probably stand a few more tutorials on how to use.

It boils down to the fact that they do not listen, period. And, when they do listen, it's begrudgingly so as is evidenced with their attempt to alleviate the unlock grind for only those who buy premium.

Loft needs to go. Quick.

Ya know I keep forgetting about DCS. Not sure why, I have several of their great modules. Just have not had a chance to fly them in a while. I absolutely loved learning the start up procedures and taking off in the A-10C.

And it is funny, I contributed to the Kickstarter for DCS WWII when it was announced, heck I spent more on it than I did BOS, so at least I am getting all the WWII aircraft for my contribution.

So yes, while it is certainly more complex, I am looking forward to the new DCS upgrade and hopefully flying some of those WWII birds in combat over a WWII area map. Most of my spare time I can devote to flight simming occur during the winter months anyway, maybe by this winter there will be a lot to enjoy WWII wise in it.

Still keeping one eye on BOS though, but it will take a major shift in SP content to get me to launch that sim again.

Yeah, DCS is great fun. Once the piston fighters get better utilization and settings, It's going to be a great period sim for piston fighters.

That said, I think Bearcat is correct in saying that BoS will pick up, at some point. At some point, those holding the purse strings will get upset at the path its taken and changes will be made.

It just shouldn't be happening like it is right now.

There's always going to be a sect of dorks that hate the product because.. reasons. But, they're the ones that are middle aged and arguing like it's 1994 and the topic of discussion at school is Genesis or SNES.

I really wish that would happen.

I will not bet on it, however.



The Jedi Master

No, neither will I unfortunately...