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#4116625 - 05/05/15 08:51 PM Re: DiD plausability for 1915 [Re: OldHat]  
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RAF_Louvert Offline
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.

For my money, if you want the whole experience, you should sign on for training and take whatever squadron assignment is given after that and hope for the best. Later on you could try to transfer out if you so desired. This would get us all a lot closer to what it was like for our RL counterparts.

Just my two cents, and unfortunately that won't buy even one beer. Thank god for open tabs. BARKEEP!

cheers

.


[Linked Image]

Three RFC Brass Hats were strolling down a street in London. Two walked into a bar, the third one ducked.
_________________________________________________________________________

Former Cold War Warrior, USAF Security Service 1974-1978, E-4, Morse Systems Intercept, England, Europe, and points above.
"pippy-pahpah-pippy pah-pip-pah"

#4116631 - 05/05/15 09:12 PM Re: DiD plausability for 1915 [Re: OldHat]  
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Nice idea Lou....very nice.

But time is too short for me to waste it on mundane tasks like going through the training in WOFF... not fun. What I like most about Rick's challenges is that it's fun from start to finish...now that is time well spent.

How can I make your idea work without actually going through training??

I'll try to clear my head and think about it some more after I consult with Mr. Samuel Adams.

#4116636 - 05/05/15 09:19 PM Re: DiD plausability for 1915 [Re: OldHat]  
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a shack in da woods
Sam is a wise one...listen good yep

The PBR in my cooler is calling on Walter Kowalski , channeling him in every sip. winkngrin

...........

...

#4116639 - 05/05/15 09:24 PM Re: DiD plausability for 1915 [Re: OldHat]  
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L'Etoile du Nord
.

mmmmmmmmm - Sam Adams. I'll have an Irish Red if you'd be so kind.

.


[Linked Image]

Three RFC Brass Hats were strolling down a street in London. Two walked into a bar, the third one ducked.
_________________________________________________________________________

Former Cold War Warrior, USAF Security Service 1974-1978, E-4, Morse Systems Intercept, England, Europe, and points above.
"pippy-pahpah-pippy pah-pip-pah"

#4116642 - 05/05/15 09:33 PM Re: DiD plausability for 1915 [Re: OldHat]  
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aftter consulting with Walter......He said....

.......flight training should be restricted to pilots with the first name of C or above that have fallen with less than 20 hours of flight. Ya got 3 shots or swings.

#4116643 - 05/05/15 09:34 PM Re: DiD plausability for 1915 [Re: OldHat]  
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Finishing off the last of Old Man Winter.... could be winter Ale..same in my mind.

Hard to beat Boston Lager

Last edited by MudWasp; 05/05/15 09:35 PM.
#4116724 - 05/06/15 04:17 AM Re: DiD plausability for 1915 [Re: OldHat]  
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I don't think I'd want to go through training each time. I understand it's supposed to be an incentive to be careful, but sometimes bad things happen regardless. Especially, I think, in 1915-16 when your planes are so flimsy.

Nor do I think the 2-seater idea DiD uses is the best. It's not bad, but you ran into the problem early when the Sopwith Strutter qualified, and the Strutter is one heck of a fighter in 1916. Similarly, the BrisFit is a two-seater. In 1915 it sounds like almost everyone is a two-seater anyway.

MudWasp's idea is pretty good: Training for 'A', Repeat for B and C if you fell with less than 20 hours in.

I like having some sort of points or grading system: Something like what Rick uses for his challenges would be great. If you want to change how points are awarded, you can. Rick's offered to help with Googleforms, and if you need a reporter or someone to help with the Admin end I'd be happy to do so.

Similarly, I wouldn't be too caught up with flight levels. I feel safer now as a 'B' pilot in DiD than I did as a 'C' with labels.

I'd like to suggest everyone has two characters at a time - a primary and a standby. If primary gets hurt etc., then you can play the standby (or even switch back and forth if your main pilot is starting to bore you.) This gives us two advantages:

First, if your main pilot DOES fall, you already have a backup pilot with some experience/game points stored up.

Second, it allows us to use the leave system that Rick set up or something similar. Your primary pilot made ace? Let him celebrate for a week and use your other guy for awhile.

#4116738 - 05/06/15 06:28 AM Re: DiD plausability for 1915 [Re: OldHat]  
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12 hours of "intro time" can be very long, so why not at least spend them within the carreer, instead of QC?
That way, the 12 hours would be collected in the pilot's log book and add up with his flight time.
Just my 2 cents.


Vice-President of the BOC (Barmy OFFers Club)
Member of the 'Albatros Aviators Club' - "We know how to die with Style!"
#4116747 - 05/06/15 07:29 AM Re: DiD plausability for 1915 [Re: OldHat]  
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Thanks for the suggestion, Olham. If you advance time in campaign after a QC flight, then it will record it in the pilot's log (if you have it set to "record all" in workshop)

-----------------------

This is the first draft of rules, so any and all feedback, comments, suggestions will help make 1915 a fun year to fly.

Starting a campaign in 1915

All ideas are gathered from the original DiD, Rick’s challenges, SIA rules and suggestions from forum members. So, credit goes to those whose rules or ideas were used in developing this DiD challenge.

Workshop Settings:
Your choice except:
•Transfer requests – subject to review

•Outcomes – normal

•Campaign date advance – Manual


Enlist your pilot:
1) Use alphabetical order to name your pilot. The first pilot’s name will begin with “A”, then if he should fall, the next pilot’s name will begin with “B”, etc...

2) First Time Pilot: Enlist your pilot and select to go for training. Then fly the 3 QC missions below and finally start your campaign.

3) Replacing a Fallen Pilot: if your pilot has a first name of C or above and has fallen with less than 20 hours of flight, then you must select to start with a training mission again. Otherwise, if the pilot's first name is D or below you don’t need to start with a training mission. Start with the 3 QC missions instead.

4) Random Squad Assignment (optional): (a) Roll a 6 sided dice three times (b) add the three numbers (e.g. 1+4+3=8) (c) choose the squad that will be on that number (e.g. choose the 8th squad that appears).

5) Do not calculate any points in the training part, instead start from the QC missions.

First 3 Missions fly in QC:
1) In Workshop, choose to log all flights (not just campaign).

2) After each completed QC flight, you must advance time by one day in your campaign screen.

3) Use the “end of mission” list below to calculate your points at the beginning of each day.

3) Day #1, Mission #1: Fly your squadron’s plane solo from any(?) “training” airfield in England or Germany to your final base.

4) Day #2, Mission #2: Fly two circuits solo around your base. If near the front, then do not cross the line.

5) Day #3, Mission #3: Fly to the Front with or without a wingman and land back at your base.

6) If you fail to end the missions by landing at your airfield, or write off your aircraft in a bad landing (the 'your aircraft has been destroyed' message) you will score negative points. If your net score at the end of the third QC mission is below '0' you will be sent back to the Home Front for further flight training (follow procedures set out in “Enlist your pilot” section). Whenever you Transfer to a new unit, you will repeat Missions 2 & 3 again.


Start of your Campaign:
1) Generate missions and carry them out, as dictated by the WOFF manager’s campaign briefing screen.

2) You will calculate your score of campaign points at the start of each new day.

3) If, at the start of any new day, your campaign points score is below '0' your time with this unit will be cut short - you will transfer immediately to another unit (See: Transfers, below).



Transfers:
If your campaign points score is below '0' at the start of any new day, you will be transferred to another unit - the need for trained pilots is too great to send you back to the Home Front, but you are clearly not fitting in with this unit: it will normally be a lower rated unit (i.e. if current unit is Average look for Poor), or if no lower rated unit is available then one with the same rating. For this to happen, you will need to temporarily set your workshop transfer requests to always approve and then back to the original setting once your request is approved.


End-Mission Effects:
1) 2 points per “confirmed” plane or target balloon shot down. Add an additional point if enemy Ace. Maximum of one time per mission.

2) 1 point for “confirmed” non-target balloon shot down. Maximum of one time per mission.

3) 2 points for any Military ground objects destroyed (visible smoke or fire). Maximum of one time per mission.

4) – 2 points for accidentally shooting same side pilot’s plane.

5) 2 points for ending the mission by landing at your own airfield. Add an additional point if you taxi to your hanger.

6) – 2 points for being wounded with Hospital Stay.

7) – 2 points for a bad landing: 'Your aircraft has been destroyed' message.

8) 2 points for a successful end of mission or ground strike announcement

9) – 2 points for an unsuccessful end of mission or ground strike announcement

10) – 2 points for ending the mission in any other way other than by landing at your own airfield

11) 2 points for becoming an ace. Maximum of only one time.

12) 2 points for each promotion.

13) 2 points for each medal.


EDIT:
CatKnight's suggestion is a good one:
I'd like to suggest everyone has two characters at a time - a primary and a standby. If primary gets hurt etc., then you can play the standby (or even switch back and forth if your main pilot is starting to bore you.) This gives us two advantages:

First, if your main pilot DOES fall, you already have a backup pilot with some experience/game points stored up.

Second, it allows us to use the leave system that Rick set up or something similar. Your primary pilot made ace? Let him celebrate for a week and use your other guy for awhile.

EDIT#2
ADDED RULES:
Fly only the missions for that day... no flying before or after the equivalent real world date. So, a June 6, 1915 mission(s) would be played on June 6, 2015 only. And anytime the WOFF manager advances the day, then you'll need to wait until you can fly on the equivalent real world day.

Must post at least one combat report per week in the thread, but not necessary to post combat reports for every mission you fly. So, you could have flown 10 missions, but only posted one (interesting?) combat report for that week.

You can choose any nation - same or different. Also, you can replace a fallen pilot with any nation.



Last edited by OldHat; 05/06/15 01:02 PM.
#4116789 - 05/06/15 10:51 AM Re: DiD plausability for 1915 [Re: OldHat]  
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Combs Offline
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1) Use alphabetical order to name your pilot. The first pilot’s name will begin with “A”, then if he should fall, the next pilot’s name will begin with “B”, etc...



The way I fly, by the end of the year I'll be using names like "ZZZebadiah Zagaman" and when you say my pilot's name, it will sound like you are stuttering. winkngrin

Quick question: What will the rule be on flying for other nations? As a character dies off, can I start a new one flying for a different nation?


Last edited by Combs; 05/06/15 10:53 AM.

No man commands safely unless he has learned well how to obey.
#4116791 - 05/06/15 10:57 AM Re: DiD plausability for 1915 [Re: OldHat]  
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Maeran Offline
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I see no reason why not. Replacement pilots in the current DiD campaign are not restricted to one nationality. In fact the Belgians are available too, with a little imagination.

#4116802 - 05/06/15 11:33 AM Re: DiD plausability for 1915 [Re: OldHat]  
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.

When and if I ever get to a 'Z' pilot I will be calling him Zaphod Beeblebrox.

As to the rule set, it may be that I haven't had enough coffee yet, but I'm finding it all a tad confusing.

.


[Linked Image]

Three RFC Brass Hats were strolling down a street in London. Two walked into a bar, the third one ducked.
_________________________________________________________________________

Former Cold War Warrior, USAF Security Service 1974-1978, E-4, Morse Systems Intercept, England, Europe, and points above.
"pippy-pahpah-pippy pah-pip-pah"

#4116808 - 05/06/15 11:48 AM Re: DiD plausability for 1915 [Re: OldHat]  
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I apologize that English is not my first language. I use a lot of cut and paste and modify what I need sometimes, so it seems a bit "messy".

I gladly welcome anyone who understands the gist of what I wrote (and has a bit of free time) to re-write the rules to be clearly understood by anyone.

Also, I missed the inclusion of some rules like making this a day-to-day challenge, reports get posted at least once a week and you can replace a fallen pilot with any nation.


EDIT: I attempted to clarify the rules a bit on the previous page, but I think it still needs some work to make it crystal clear.

Last edited by OldHat; 05/06/15 01:04 PM.
#4116821 - 05/06/15 12:19 PM Re: DiD plausability for 1915 [Re: OldHat]  
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As always, I am a little late to this party, but, sounds like a hoot to me.


Never approach a bull from the front, a horse from the rear or a fool from either end.
BOC Member since....I can't remember!
#4116900 - 05/06/15 02:23 PM Re: DiD plausability for 1915 [Re: OldHat]  
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Maeran Offline
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It hasn't started yet MFair, so you aren't too late.
I'm not sure I'll be able to fly two DiD campaigns, although I have been able to get in more flight time than I felt I could commit to for the first one already. So I am tempted.


And hooray for a Hitchhikers' reference!

#4117234 - 05/07/15 03:41 AM Re: DiD plausability for 1915 [Re: OldHat]  
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CatKnight Offline
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My thoughts (in red):

4) Random Squad Assignment (optional): (a) Roll a 6 sided dice three times (b) add the three numbers (e.g. 1+4+3=8) (c) choose the squad that will be on that number (e.g. choose the 8th squad that appears).
Considering you want to make it more difficult to transfer, having this optional is a good idea. That said, anyone using this system will probably want to use an online site to roll say 1 20-sided die instead. 3 six-siders (3d6) produces a bell curve where it's much more likely to roll 9-12 than 3 or 18.

5) Do not calculate any points in the training part, instead start from the QC missions.

First 3 Missions fly in QC:
1) In Workshop, choose to log all flights (not just campaign).
Note you could fly the QC flights in campaign. Simply ignore the missions' orders. That seems to be the initial assumption when these flights first came up.


2) After each completed QC flight, you must advance time by one day in your campaign screen.

3) Use the “end of mission” list below to calculate your points at the beginning of each day.

3) Day #1, Mission #1: Fly your squadron’s plane solo from any(?) “training” airfield in England or Germany to your final base.

4) Day #2, Mission #2: Fly two circuits solo around your base. If near the front, then do not cross the line.

5) Day #3, Mission #3: Fly to the Front with or without a wingman and land back at your base.

6) If you fail to end the missions by landing at your airfield, or write off your aircraft in a bad landing (the 'your aircraft has been destroyed' message) you will score negative points. If your net score at the end of the third QC mission is below '0' you will be sent back to the Home Front for further flight training (follow procedures set out in “Enlist your pilot” section). Whenever you Transfer to a new unit, you will repeat Missions 2 & 3 again.

Not sure the forced transfer rule is going to work here, especially with transfers not being automatic.


Start of your Campaign:
1) Generate missions and carry them out, as dictated by the WOFF manager’s campaign briefing screen.

2) You will calculate your score of campaign points at the start of each new day.

3) If, at the start of any new day, your campaign points score is below '0' your time with this unit will be cut short - you will transfer immediately to another unit (See: Transfers, below).



Transfers:
If your campaign points score is below '0' at the start of any new day, you will be transferred to another unit - the need for trained pilots is too great to send you back to the Home Front, but you are clearly not fitting in with this unit: it will normally be a lower rated unit (i.e. if current unit is Average look for Poor), or if no lower rated unit is available then one with the same rating. For this to happen, you will need to temporarily set your workshop transfer requests to always approve and then back to the original setting once your request is approved.

Again, not sure the transfer rule will work here. Since this is going to be a several month campaign we may not want someone to be compelled to do something.

End-Mission Effects:
Suggesting changes to some point values, again in red

1) 2 points per “confirmed” plane or target balloon shot down. Add an additional point if enemy Ace. Maximum of one time per mission.
1, no bonus for ace. DiD doesn't seem to be met to encourage this.

2) 1 point for “confirmed” non-target balloon shot down. Maximum of one time per mission.
Omit.. Balloons are too easy.

3) 2 points for any Military ground objects destroyed (visible smoke or fire). Maximum of one time per mission.
1 max for damaging ground targets

4) – 2 points for accidentally shooting same side pilot’s plane.
Omit.

5) 2 points for ending the mission by landing at your own airfield. Add an additional point if you taxi to your hanger.
1 for successful mission

6) – 2 points for being wounded with Hospital Stay.
Okay

7) – 2 points for a bad landing: 'Your aircraft has been destroyed' message.
8) 2 points for a successful end of mission or ground strike announcement
9) – 2 points for an unsuccessful end of mission or ground strike announcement
10) – 2 points for ending the mission in any other way other than by landing at your own airfield
Omit.

11) 2 points for becoming an ace. Maximum of only one time.
12) 2 points for each promotion.
Okay

13) 2 points for each medal.
Omit. WOFF's medal awards are a bit weird. For example, the German first one (Ehrenbacher) is almost impossible NOT to get.

#4117254 - 05/07/15 06:56 AM Re: DiD plausability for 1915 [Re: OldHat]  
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All good feedback CatKnight. Also, I've run into a bit of a snag which I'm not sure how to resolve.

First to address your comments:

QC flights can be recorded into the log book like this:

1. In Workshop under Campaign options, select to log all flights:


2. Fly the mission in QC. Then after the mission, check your pilot log book to see that it got recorded


3. Go to your campaign screen and advance time by one day to make the hours earned in QC "stick" in the log book permanently.


4. Rinse and repeat.

-----------------

A "forced" transfer can be done through the workshop setting of "always approve" transfer requests. Then once the transfer has occured, the setting will need to go back to "subject to review". I thought it would make it more like RL if we did it this way as I've read a few reports where pilots were kicked out of elite squads if they didn't perform well. But this can be omitted if it's too tough.

------------------

Now, here's a confusing situation....

Originally Posted By: actionjoe
Right now, in 1915, some French career are "stopped" due to the lack of aircraft : Nieuport 10 C1 (which will arrive) & 10 A2, (these infos are from the career enlistment panel). The shortage approximatly arrives in September 1915.


A problem for those who want to start a French career.



Originally Posted By: MudWasp

My 2 cents of input is that fighter planes or scouts are basically non existent in the first half or so of the year 1915. Two of the German two seaters also have no guns, Aviatik BI & Aviatik BII. The EI isn't used in a scout squad until Sept 1st when MFJ1 starts, before that they are issued to high ranking members of squads flying two seaters......so we might be flying two seaters for a long time.


I've gone through the manual enlistment to find out when EIs & EIIs start to appear. They begin to show up as early as August and September (FFA 48 & FFA 34).

So, basically a 1915 career will be for two-seaters and sight-seeing until September when Fokker Eindeckers start appearing to threaten the two-seaters. Also, the french pilots will be out of the game from September 1915 until 1916 when they can get planes that are in the game.

Now, the question becomes "what the #$*! is the purpose of this DiD if there will be no scourge until near the end of the year and no French pilots after September 1915?"

#4117298 - 05/07/15 11:44 AM Re: DiD plausability for 1915 [Re: OldHat]  
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So, basically a 1915 career will be for two-seaters and sight-seeing until September when Fokker Eindeckers start appearing to threaten the two-seaters. Also, the french pilots will be out of the game from September 1915 until 1916 when they can get planes that are in the game.

Now, the question becomes "what the #$*! is the purpose of this DiD if there will be no scourge until near the end of the year and no French pilots after September 1915?"


Possibly we should then begin around August 10 or so. This would do a couple of thinks:
1) Give the developers a chance to get the early aircraft expansion done
2) Give pilots a chance to do their 2 seater time in a relatedly safe environment
3) Give newer pilots a chance to get experience flying without labels, nav aids, with paper maps, etc


No man commands safely unless he has learned well how to obey.
#4117341 - 05/07/15 12:56 PM Re: DiD plausability for 1915 [Re: OldHat]  
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.

I'll chime in here again as early war careers have always been one of my favorite things to do even way back in the RB3D days.

Start a WOFF DID campaign in February 1915 and fly real time as we do in our current DID, and see just how long you can make it in the war as a pilot. Yes, the first six months or so are going to be uneventful in terms of air-to-air combat, which is as it pretty much should be from an historical perspective. This doesn't mean though that you can't get killed or captured as you will still have to contend with bad landings, mechanical failures, Archie/Flak, getting yourself lost, and the like. Also, equipment shortages were very much a part of the experience so not having planes from time-to-time would fit right in. As for that hole in the French plane line-up? Even if we started soon, (i.e., real world soon), I am betting the N10 will be along in time to address the issue, at least in part, as it allows over three months of flying in 1915 before it would even arrive, (mid-May 1915), assuming we start at the beginning of February 1915.

I for one would like to experience, as much as it is possible with a sim, exactly what it was like for our RL counterparts who were the first to fly in the Great War.

.


[Linked Image]

Three RFC Brass Hats were strolling down a street in London. Two walked into a bar, the third one ducked.
_________________________________________________________________________

Former Cold War Warrior, USAF Security Service 1974-1978, E-4, Morse Systems Intercept, England, Europe, and points above.
"pippy-pahpah-pippy pah-pip-pah"

#4117387 - 05/07/15 02:16 PM Re: DiD plausability for 1915 [Re: OldHat]  
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Banjoman Offline
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I agree with Lou, I don't need any enemy fighters to die, I'm quite capable of doing that on my own. Seriously, If we want to really experience, as close as possible, what these guys went through, then I think we have to follow Lou's suggestions.


Member and provider of banjo music for the Illustrious BOC
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