The MS ff2 seems to be the most used Joystick, that brings me lot of pleasure in RoF/Clod/Bos but when it becomes to WoFF the whole force feedback seems to absence.

Like to know if OBD does have any plans to get this fixed.

Guess no fix

Drivers are very poor and were written for XP.

I've used MSFFB2 on XP and Windows 7 and it performs the same.... inconsistent force feedback. Especially noticeable when banking against resistance, the joystick's centering force will all of a sudden stop working.

I loved the MSFFB2's handling, but hated not having proper force feedback. That's why I made the switch to Logitech wingman force. The handling is not quite like the MSFFB, but the force feedback never quits and is strong.

The drivers are old and the ffb is inconsistent but it still works well on many sims, in fact I use it on DCS and it is flawless. On others(ROF,COD) it can sometimes act funny but the majority of the time it works and is one of the few sticks that gives you true ffb. There really should be a fix, even nowadays it's one of a kind.

Think it is a pity that the most used joystick is not supported.
BoS/RoF&Clod are running great on the MS-FF2, think a decent fix would not be that rocket science.

It's old and not supported by Microsoft for a few OS's. Try making sure your finger covers the sensor before the sim launches.

I do cover the 2 sensors in the stick handle, but the whole Force feedback is not working. No driver support from Microsoft W7&8 is true, but why does RoF/BoS and Clod have not any FF issues, think it is caused by the game not the modern Windows?????

Be aware, we are talking about the most used Joystick in Combat flysims and still very popular and high priced in the secondhand market like on Ebay. Think if there were FF problems then the MS-FF2 would be vanish away like the old Logitech Wingman force.

Lets hope there will be a fix for the Force feedback.

I am not quite sure what your issue is with the MSFFB2 stick.

I have one here on the development system and it works just fine with or without FF enabled - but I am on Win7.
Are you enabling FF in workshops?

If there are issues with the drivers on your particular OS then you would need to take that up with MS.

WM

I also use MSFFB2 stick with no problems. That being said, I would love to have the capability to adjust settings. I see there are some setting in the WOFF FM for aircraft. Is it possible to add more capability that could be either adjusted in the FM files or by a workshop screen. Just a thought but I suspect only the Devs can answer that. Even if it is possible it would require dev time which appears to be a precious commodity at this time so I'm not expecting anything any time soon.

Best Regards;

We have no plans to work on additional FF features at this moment in time.

HTH

WM

I did a run in CFS3 using the MAW ad-on pack and here the forcefeedback is good, even the central spring is working.


Please consider a fix for the forcefeedback or level-up to the MAW pack.

Dutch, give us a link to the MAW ad on pack. I did a google and haven't found any info on it that I would recognize.

Go to the old pre2009 OFF forum, Simouthouse and check all the CFS3 goodies like ETO/MAW/Korean/PTO etc.

MAW does recognize the MS-FF2 force feedback even the return back to neutral spring effect is working. So again the FFB failure for MS-FF2 must be within WoFF.

You started out this thread by saying the FF is absent.
Now you state that its only the centering force that is not working?

There is no stick 'centering force' in WOFF - just as there were no centering springs in the craft themselves in WW1.


Hope this helps.

WM

Just to be clear here - the MSFFB2 stick FF is working exactly as per design criteria for WOFF.
ALL functions are working: Guns, Rolling, Ailerons and Flight Surface forces and Crash effects.
There is no phoney 'stick centering' force by design and as per WW1 craft.

At the moment there is no fix for something that is not broken.
Remember not all the aircraft fly 'level' with the stick 'dead center' anyway - some are nose heavy others tail heavy. So this 'FF stick centering aid' really is not useful, apart from being unrealistic.

We may in the future revise certain force control functions but as I say its not on the cards at the moment

I hope this is clear!

If you are personally having issues with your MSFFB2 set up you are welcome to contact us on support - kindly quote your order number and we can try and assist further.

WM

The centering spring function in a force feedback joystick is intended to simulate the aerodynamic forces that will drive the control surfaces back to their neutral position if you take your hand off the stick. They do not make your plane go back to straight and level flight. If you bank and then take your hand off the stick or center it yourself the plane should naturally hold that bank (give or take the other forces that will cause yawing). To get back to straight and level from a bank you actually should have to apply the opposite aileron input, not just center the stick.

Modern Control Force Limits

There are a few reason we disabled it - the main one being quite a few folks complaining on long flights that they had sore hands holding the stick fwd or backwards (yeah) which is why I referred to the level flight not being stick center.
Personal 'injury issues' are a real problem alas.

We debated making all FM level flight with stick center (which would have been wrong) so we decided that the few that use FF will simply not have the static stick center force.

BTW the PC game stick 'centering force' is unaffected by flight attitude and is a constant (exactly like a centering spring) - which is not the case with aerodynamic forces - so not the same thing as you refer to - in PC world is is a true static centering force - which did not exist on WW1 craft.

So maybe in future it will be optional - no promises - but we have no plans to work on this at moment as said.

WM

I may be way off the mark, but....

I notice that most WW1 planes didn't move fast through the air. Thus, in normal flying conditions with light wind (<15 knots) any joystick resistance would be fake and not realistic. Only in steep dives, spinning stalls and the like where you pick up speed would joystick resistance be believable. I'd be inclined to believe that the stick (and entire plane) would be constantly vibrating because of the engine. Kinda like what happens now in cars/trucks with disproportionately large engines.

I don't believe there exists a WW1 flight simulation game which will give accurate force feedback anyways, it's all a gimmick. So, I've started flying without any centering force on the stick and I enjoy it more that way.

Yes, it's a shame that the effect is not properly modeled to take air speed, and the amount of control deflection into consideration. It's not a difficult calculation, but I assume they were concerned that the latency would lead to a positive feedback loop (as can happen with PIO), so they implemented the easier solution. At least some of the FFB joysticks let you dial in the strength of the centering effect through their set-up software so you can make it quite light for WWI aircraft.

Let's not forget that non-FFB joysticks actually have a centering spring built into the mechanism.