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#4103878 - 04/09/15 08:08 PM Some thoughts about...  
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ArisFuser Offline
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...the claim system.I would like to get some feedback from you guys first, as I personally been getting LOTS of rejected claims lately, and when I say LOTS I mean 80% of them, no matter what I write, what witnesses are, etc. My last four have been rejected (I saw them crash, all of them, within friendly territory, most of the times veru close to friendly airfields). I this persists I may change the setting in the Workshop as I feel the claim system now to be a little unfair. Any thoughts?

#4103886 - 04/09/15 08:22 PM Re: Some thoughts about... [Re: ArisFuser]  
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Yep, not as bad, but not good either. I even stopped writing a couple of them fearing any negative repercussions from too many rejections.


#4103892 - 04/09/15 08:37 PM Re: Some thoughts about... [Re: ArisFuser]  
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If you have a claim you really think should be confirmed you have to make the change yourself manually.
Otherwise your chance is 0-36% on claims not immediately confirmed or rejected, i.e., right after the mission is what I mean by immediately.
I have studied this for a long while.

#4103901 - 04/09/15 08:44 PM Re: Some thoughts about... [Re: ArisFuser]  
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Quote:
you have to make the change yourself manually.


Can you explain further Olham? I don´t understand what you mean,...

#4103907 - 04/09/15 08:51 PM Re: Some thoughts about... [Re: ArisFuser]  
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Well it's not Olham but I was trying to be a little vague in the file editing.
I can PM you if you like.

#4103924 - 04/09/15 09:23 PM Re: Some thoughts about... [Re: ArisFuser]  
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I can second what Duke is alluding to in his message. For some reason, the game assigns a base percentage chance for confirmation around 34-36% regardless of where the kill occurred. I've had claims that had this base chance fall within a few miles from my airfield and I've had the same chance for a claim that fell on the other side of the lines. Duke in his never-ending quest to make WOFF the greatest flight sim EVER, has found a way to manually massage this information. biggrin He will gladly update you if you will just ask, he's nice like that.


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#4103932 - 04/09/15 09:34 PM Re: Some thoughts about... [Re: ArisFuser]  
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As kind as Duke can be, I would like the devs to make some changes to the claim system, specifically, taking into account the proximity of ground troops, friendly airfields, etc when conseidering a claim fake or not.

#4103935 - 04/09/15 09:38 PM Re: Some thoughts about... [Re: ArisFuser]  
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Originally Posted By: ArisFuser
As kind as Duke can be, I would like the devs to make some changes to the claim system, specifically, taking into account the proximity of ground troops, friendly airfields, etc when conseidering a claim fake or not.

Respectfully...if Pol drops by here, he'll say to put your request in the Wishlist thread. BTW this has already been requested. But it can't hurt to have the request bumped.

Cheers

#4103964 - 04/09/15 11:49 PM Re: Some thoughts about... [Re: ArisFuser]  
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If it is a dice roll, then it is possible that you can have a poor run like this. My current pilot has had only one rejection out of 7 (6 for Did purposes) claims. That is on the hardest setting. Can other WOFFERS post their experiences so that we can get a decent idea of how random it really is?

#4103979 - 04/10/15 12:23 AM Re: Some thoughts about... [Re: Maeran]  
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Originally Posted By: Maeran
If it is a dice roll, then it is possible that you can have a poor run like this. My current pilot has had only one rejection out of 7 (6 for Did purposes) claims. That is on the hardest setting. Can other WOFFERS post their experiences so that we can get a decent idea of how random it really is?


My DiD pilot currently has 122 confirmed kills out of 130 claims which seems rather respectable confirmations.


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#4104008 - 04/10/15 01:14 AM Re: Some thoughts about... [Re: ArisFuser]  
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Robert that flouts everything I have seen over the years.
Would you mind posting the text of one of your claims. Real curious.

#4104026 - 04/10/15 01:38 AM Re: Some thoughts about... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Originally Posted By: DukeIronHand
Robert that flouts everything I have seen over the years.
Would you mind posting the text of one of your claims. Real curious.


Duke;

I'll go you one better. Here is a screen cap of part of my "PilotxxClaims.txt" file:



(System_Specs)
Case: Cooler Master Storm Trooper
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#4104039 - 04/10/15 02:47 AM Re: Some thoughts about... [Re: ArisFuser]  
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Robert, you have 122 confirmed kills. jawdrop Ari, I feel your pain. My current German pilot has struggled since day one and after 10 missions and one of the hardest dogfights I've had he finally scores against a SPAD VII on our side of the lines near our airfield and the claim was rejected almost immediately.


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#4104112 - 04/10/15 09:16 AM Re: Some thoughts about... [Re: ArisFuser]  
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Banjoman, there are some essential points (or so I believe) for a successful claim.

WOFF 'knows' a lot of data - so you need to hit those.

Witness
You need to know, who was really close enough to you while you shot the victim down, to be a witness.
In real life you would easily find out in a talk after the sortie was over.
So it is no cheating IMHO, if you "pause" and check around your craft in outside view,
and with LABELS on "Identity", who was there.
(If no one was, then it is fruitless, and you can only select "no witness")

Time, Altitude and Location
With the "Z" key you can bring up additional data ingame.
You should note the time of the impact moment.
You should note your own altitude during the kill.
If you want to go real far, you could also note longitude and latitude, but I never do that.
I always mention the crash site position in relation to the nearest airfield.




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#4104113 - 04/10/15 09:22 AM Re: Some thoughts about... [Re: ArisFuser]  
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Robert
Your narratives are one sentence long at best?
Sometimes 4 or 5 words?
Out of curiousity how many of your claims (with 130+ a guess is fine!) are immediately confirmed and how many a day or two later? %-wise?

EDIT: I should get some flight time today and will try your "method." Had some tea and read your log.
I have been typing whole paragraphs, with pretty much the same information as you, just in a much more wordy narrarive fashion! I thought more was better (I treat it like a diary) but maybe not? Perhaps all the text is confusing the "WOFF system"? I didn't want to drag this all up again but I have never, except once, no matter where the kill occurs, witnesses or no, seen the % chance of a confirmation different from 32-36% on claims where there is no immediate results, i.e., immediate confirmation or rejection upon leaving the current mission screens. Did have a 0% once and just recently. I think I claimed a Spad that was actually shot down but someone else - we were both shooting at it when it lit up.
Anyway the only possible difference in my mind, besides the huge length of mine, is the "Witness" spot. I will admit that I do not pause the game and use Labels at the time of the kill to be absolutely sure who my closest squad mate is and often look around quickly and take a guess.
Perhaps the "system" absolutely knows who the closest is and that is the difference? Hard to imagine I have never gotten the closest witness right in all my 2.0 time (or perhaps I have and these are the immediate confirmations?) but I am not afraid to learn new tricks or admit my methods are in error.
I will try today and see.



Last edited by DukeIronHand; 04/10/15 10:54 AM.
#4104143 - 04/10/15 11:27 AM Re: Some thoughts about... [Re: ArisFuser]  
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I too started getting alot of rejections..HOWEVER personally I see it as part of the realism..I know when I shot these planes down I wasn't anywhere near any friendly planes (though I know alot of confirmations came from ground troops), Maybe we can get confirmations from ground troops? Say if you shoot the plane down near the lines or on friendly side near to camps\airfields\towns etc you get confirmation from them.


I really would like to see shared kills come into play for the Allies..as the thing I find most annoying is shooting down a bus only for one of your Squadron zoom in and get the last shot in as it's on the way down...very annoying that. Fights in the mess after that I reckon.

I always got confirmations from something like this "Jasta 5 (If I knew the squadron and name if the pilot was an ace and I knew his name)) Bus shot down out of control near no mans land."

Simple. I always found the detailed analysis of what went on stating grid references etc not necessary and the detailed forum posts about it quiet amusing considering you really didn't need to give an essay.

The recent confirmations I've had using something like this have been confirmed when a friendly plane is near. So I definitely think the witness position has become far more important than previously.

#4104152 - 04/10/15 11:44 AM Re: Some thoughts about... [Re: ArisFuser]  
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Assuming Robert is correct and he has the correct (closest?) witness then his evidence is hard to reject - it's in black and white before our eyes for all to see!
The correct (closest) wingman must be the key here for a typical WOFF confirmation.
Of course this goes against my latest "No Aids" flying mode. Guess I'll have to up the "Label Distance Factor"...*sigh*

And yes again many confirmations (and I mean many) came from AA units and Air Defense Observers whose only job was to watch the sky. Be nice to see this feature - even behind the scenes - as additional % in your confirmation chance.

EDIT: Almost forgot Wodin - the Dev's have stated previously it is not the "last hit gets the kill" but who does the most damage to a crashed aircraft.


Last edited by DukeIronHand; 04/10/15 11:47 AM.
#4104156 - 04/10/15 11:49 AM Re: Some thoughts about... [Re: ArisFuser]  
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That shocks me as it's not what I've seen...however if my observations are wrong and it does record damage and knows what pilot caused the damage then I see no reason for not bringing in the feature of dividing up a kill like the Commonwealth flyers did.

Last edited by Wodin; 04/10/15 11:53 AM.
#4104168 - 04/10/15 12:11 PM Re: Some thoughts about... [Re: ArisFuser]  
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Duke;

I always made a habit of jotting down the names of my flight mates and noting their flight positions and craft paint jobs. I always use the closest man as a witness.
I do not think that alone will get you the kill but I'm sure it is a factor. I also think that rank and experience comes into play as well. I had far more rejections in my pilots early career and very few now that he has highest rank and experience. Most of my kills are confirmed at the end of the mission when the date advances.

I think think that having a lengthy claim form entry is ok if you make sure the important stuff is up front first. My last kill in the log had some extraneous data referring to witnessing a flight mates kill.

Best Regards;


(System_Specs)
Case: Cooler Master Storm Trooper
PSU: Ultra X3,1000-Watt
MB: Asus Maximus VI Extreme
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#4104171 - 04/10/15 12:24 PM Re: Some thoughts about... [Re: ArisFuser]  
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Interesting about your observation of rank perhaps being a factor?
Well, obviously your results can't be argued.
And in addition to having my "No Aids" campaign mode modified I am also using no (or minimal depending on the side I am flying for) HA mods which do away with custom paint jobs that would be of assistance!
Hehe...this game is awesome.
When's the next Expansion pack? I got money in the bank that is just sitting there helping THE bank make more money. I'd rather spend it on something useful.

#4104244 - 04/10/15 01:58 PM Re: Some thoughts about... [Re: ArisFuser]  
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Maybe WOFF should include some 'ladies' whom you can 'attach' if you are successful in combat (like Böeke and his nurse winkngrin )
This would give you extra points...

#4104361 - 04/10/15 04:59 PM Re: Some thoughts about... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Originally Posted By: DukeIronHand
Interesting about your observation of rank perhaps being a factor?
Well, obviously your results can't be argued.
And in addition to having my "No Aids" campaign mode modified I am also using no (or minimal depending on the side I am flying for) HA mods which do away with custom paint jobs that would be of assistance!
Hehe...this game is awesome.
When's the next Expansion pack? I got money in the bank that is just sitting there helping THE bank make more money. I'd rather spend it on something useful.


Duke;

the rating of the squadron may also be a factor in the decision making of kill authorization. I'm just green lighting on this as I have no knowledge of how the form input is evaluated.


(System_Specs)
Case: Cooler Master Storm Trooper
PSU: Ultra X3,1000-Watt
MB: Asus Maximus VI Extreme
Mem: Corsair Vengeance (2x 8GB), PC3-12800, DDR3-1600MHz, Unbuffered
CPU: Intel i7-4770K, OC to 4.427Ghz
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Seidon 240M Liquid CPU Cooler
Vid Card: ASUS GTX 980Ti STRIX 6GB
OS and Games on separate: Samsung 840 Series 250GB SSD
Monitor: Primary ASUS PG27AQ 4k; Secondary Samsung SyncMaster BX2450L
Periphs: MS Sidewinder FFB2 Pro, TrackIR 4

#4104366 - 04/10/15 05:14 PM Re: Some thoughts about... [Re: ArisFuser]  
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Yes the actual process, and exactly what goes into it, has been a closely guarded secret by OBD.
And that is fine. As I have said before I do not wish to know too much about the "behind the scenes magic" to ruin the game for myself.
And in that regard I kind of feel sorry for the Dev's!

But back to topic since we know nothing we are forced to guess and proceed with a "trial and error" type process OR emulate others who have succeded as you have apparently done.
I do not mind claim rejection as long as there is some kind of logic to it but I will continue file manipulation in cases where a flaming enemy crashes on a friendly airfield 2 miles from my own and confirmation turns out to be doubtful.

#4104471 - 04/10/15 10:08 PM Re: Some thoughts about... [Re: ArisFuser]  
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Don't try to micro analyse it, believe me you will kill the fun eventually. Some of you obviously are not entering the data as well as others, a sample of 100 kills or whatever is way way too low to say the claim system is broken. If Robert thinks it's fine, and you think it's miles off then it's not WOFF!

BTW just because a craft lands near your field doesn't mean you are the only claimant. Yes you KNOW you got it, doesn't mean the rest of the world does. Kind of the whole point of claims.


Regards,

Polovski,
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#4104484 - 04/10/15 11:02 PM Re: Some thoughts about... [Re: ArisFuser]  
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Yes I know but it's my fantasy eh?
And if I say I shot it down then, darnit, I shot it down. Not Hans or Franz (or Jack or Bob depending on the career) so it's mine.
And all eyes are focused on me visually confirming my glory for King or Kaiser. I am the hero ace!

On a more serious note I fully understand what you are saying and a rejected claim could be for any number of "real life" reasons not neccessarily modelled in the game but reflected, indirectly, by the claim system and a claim rejection. And I usually don't mind a rejection unless it's flamingly obvious it almost certainly would be confirmed - at least in my fantasy world. And the occasional claim tweak is as much knowledge as I want to have. Besides the Aces.txt thing of course.
You guys work the magic and I will continue to enjoy the best sim, IMHO, ever produced. Not many things in my life I would drop $1500.00+ just to increase my enjoyment.

I am the handsome, dashing, skilled, and deadly flying ace and things go my way - least till I make a smoking crater...again!

#4104502 - 04/10/15 11:47 PM Re: Some thoughts about... [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Originally Posted By: DukeIronHand
Yes I know but it's my fantasy eh?
And if I say I shot it down then, darnit, I shot it down. Not Hans or Franz (or Jack or Bob depending on the career) so it's mine.
And all eyes are focused on me visually confirming my glory for King or Kaiser. I am the hero ace!

On a more serious note I fully understand what you are saying and a rejected claim could be for any number of "real life" reasons not neccessarily modelled in the game but reflected, indirectly, by the claim system and a claim rejection. And I usually don't mind a rejection unless it's flamingly obvious it almost certainly would be confirmed - at least in my fantasy world. And the occasional claim tweak is as much knowledge as I want to have. Besides the Aces.txt thing of course.
You guys work the magic and I will continue to enjoy the best sim, IMHO, ever produced. Not many things in my life I would drop $1500.00+ just to increase my enjoyment.

I am the handsome, dashing, skilled, and deadly flying ace and things go my way - least till I make a smoking crater...again!


DukeIron Hand: " I saw it! It's mine! it's was a kill! "

Adjutant : " then you have the supreme satisfaction of knowing you have served the Fatherland"

Commander: "unconfirmed by headquarters means unconfirmed. Do you understand.? yep


Never approach a bull from the front, a horse from the rear or a fool from either end.
BOC Member since....I can't remember!
#4104535 - 04/11/15 01:13 AM Re: Some thoughts about... [Re: ArisFuser]  
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Hey!
It's usually me throwing out the Blue Max quotes here.
"We'll search those woods over there."
"But you already have!"
"What?"
"You searched those woods an hour ago!"
"Well we'll search them again. What's the matter MFair? Too close to the guns for you?"

#4104549 - 04/11/15 01:55 AM Re: Some thoughts about... [Re: ArisFuser]  
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Never approach a bull from the front, a horse from the rear or a fool from either end.
BOC Member since....I can't remember!
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