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#4097770 - 03/27/15 10:40 AM Re: Lack of Alb DVs and Greentails in Jasta 5 Campaign [Re: JFM]  
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OK...slept in a bit on my day off and lost early morning campaign time so I had a chance to experiment.
Olham I took the date off your screen capture (25 August 1917) and started then.

Aircraft listed (Manual Enlistment screen) for Jasta 5 on 24 August were the DV, DIII, DIII (Early) but I started on 25 August where it suddenly switched to:
DIII(OAW), DV, DV in order of highest to lowest.

Aircraft numbers for the 25th are: 3 DIII (Early), 6 DIII(OAW), 12 DV (Uprated)

On the chalkboard in the Ready Room all the big guns (Mai, Konnecke, Rumey) were assigned the 3 DIII (Early).

On the flight line two of the HA's showed some generic paint job and the third had a custom, but not green tail, skin. Me (as a Lt) and my wingman sat there in green tail DV's.

Yes....there is an issue!

#4097784 - 03/27/15 11:24 AM Re: Lack of Alb DVs and Greentails in Jasta 5 Campaign [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Originally Posted By: DukeIronHand
Aircraft numbers for the 25th are: 3 DIII (Early), 6 DIII(OAW), 12 DV (Uprated)

On the chalkboard in the Ready Room all the big guns (Mai, Konnecke, Rumey) were assigned the 3 DIII (Early).

On the flight line two of the HA's showed some generic paint job and the third had a custom, but not green tail, skin. Me (as a Lt) and my wingman sat there in green tail DV's.

Yes....there is an issue!


I think it is easy to correct - I hope the devs will read this here.


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#4097792 - 03/27/15 11:55 AM Re: Lack of Alb DVs and Greentails in Jasta 5 Campaign [Re: JFM]  
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Oh they have yet to let us down.
They are on it.

#4098038 - 03/27/15 06:33 PM Re: Lack of Alb DVs and Greentails in Jasta 5 Campaign [Re: JFM]  
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Do we not need the skin pack for showing the J5 skins, lot of aces in that Jasta.

#4098053 - 03/27/15 07:09 PM Re: Lack of Alb DVs and Greentails in Jasta 5 Campaign [Re: JFM]  
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The skin pack would be needed for many Ace Skins but not all...I think....I have had the Skin Pa k since Day One.
At a minimum some of the big guys should have there skins showing and the Jasta Default skin as well in stock WOFF.
Do you not have the Skin Pack?

#4098086 - 03/27/15 07:57 PM Re: Lack of Alb DVs and Greentails in Jasta 5 Campaign [Re: JFM]  
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Not only the skins, but the allocation of different aircraft types could use some improving in WOFF. The idea is great and perfectly historical, but I find the logic of how every pilot is assigned an aircraft to fly a bit puzzling. For example, having to fly an old crate when everybody else is flying the latest toys and some of them are even kept unused in reserve doesn't make much sense.

But I'm confident the devs will find a way to fix this. They always do! smile


"Upon my word I've had as much excitement on a car as in the air, especially since the R.F.C. have had women drivers."

James McCudden, Five Years in the Royal Flying Corps
#4098089 - 03/27/15 08:01 PM Re: Lack of Alb DVs and Greentails in Jasta 5 Campaign [Re: JFM]  
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Guys, I do have the skin pack - the problem is that the aces still all recieve D.III(early)
in August 1917. The "early" skins don't have green tails. The normal D.III skins do.
Something just needs to get "adjusted" there, I suppose.


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#4098096 - 03/27/15 08:09 PM Re: Lack of Alb DVs and Greentails in Jasta 5 Campaign [Re: JFM]  
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Not only that, but many aces should not even be flying DIIIs in August because several photos show them flying DVs starting from late July.

#4098099 - 03/27/15 08:12 PM Re: Lack of Alb DVs and Greentails in Jasta 5 Campaign [Re: JFM]  
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Right there is an obvious issue independent of the use of the Skim Pack.
It will be fixed.

#4098247 - 03/28/15 02:11 AM Re: Lack of Alb DVs and Greentails in Jasta 5 Campaign [Re: JFM]  
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Hi, maybe I can help a little... but I definitely can't fix this.

The Alb D.III 160/170 and OAW skins for Jasta 5 were lacking from day one, so don't be surprised to see a lot of generics for aces. I never made skins for some of the aces that are allocated the OAW and Alb D.III 170. The D.III 170 skins that are present in your skins folder are not being used at this time. I can see that as well. Somewhere between April and May it jumps from D.III Early right to the D.V which causes the aces to skip over the all important D.III 170. Even though the WOFF Manager lists the D.III 170 as the primary crate for HA's, it appear to skip over it in the game.

The allocation is accomplished via coding in the Manager and datafiles that assigns the type to the units. In short, it's not as simple as you might believe it to be. When we make skins for a unit, we try our best to follow the dateline set out by these datafiles so that the skins become active in the game. However it does appear that the Manager likes to have all aces in the best planes only.

Also when we talk about 'aces'... we are also talking about pilots. Meaning... a lot of the 'aces' in WOFF are average pilots on their way to 'acedom'. So to make them active and give them life, they are always considered 'HA's'. This now gives them more priority than you to have a better plane unless you outrank them. Even though you have 10 kills and they have none.. you get the lesser crate if they outrank you.

I hope this helped a little. It is something that creates a grey area in the accuracy of plane allocation. Perhaps Pol or winder might chime in as they are better suited to decide if this is correctable... adjustable.. etc.

Thanks,

OvS


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#4098307 - 03/28/15 10:12 AM Re: Lack of Alb DVs and Greentails in Jasta 5 Campaign [Re: JFM]  
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Thank you for the detailed explanation, OvS!
Perhaps you can write to OBD with a link to this thread, so they notice it?


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#4098353 - 03/28/15 01:35 PM Re: Lack of Alb DVs and Greentails in Jasta 5 Campaign [Re: JFM]  
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The problem (and that is MUCH too strong a word) is not so much the skins but that certainly by late July through September the Staffel is way too populated with DIIIs and DIII(OAW)s and not nearly enough DVs. In actuality the preponderance of Jasta 5 Alb DIIIs in spring 1917 were mostly in the early 2200/16 serial number range, between 2200-2250/16. I.e., first production batch machines, although from the last 100 machines of the batch. So they used Alb DIIs until the DIII began arriving in March, although even by 1 April both types were present. I've only ever seen two or three DIII(OAW)s scattered across the months. Jasta 5 didn't "shift gears" and get later DIIIs, then DIII(OAW)s, and then DVs. They flew their DIIIs and then got the DV--not to mention the DV was available before the DIII(OAW). Certainly by 1 August Jasta 5 was primarily a Alb DV Staffel with a few DIII exceptions. As is seen in these well-familiar late July 1917 photographs:








Also, any jump to the DV should not occur before late May, when the DVs first began showing up at the front. Schneider's DV was 1066/17, a pretty early machine with a headrest that was removed in-field. I don't know when that arrived at Jasta 5 but 1033/17 arrived at Jasta 3 on 23 May, so presumably 1066/17 was not long after.

I realize this is a flight sim and there are limitations. Just FYI stuff.

EDIT: I'm sorry but I just now noticed AF's post up there. Interesting how there are so many DVs while I, for instance, see hardly any DVs and way too many DIIIs. In September, no less.

Last edited by JFM; 03/28/15 01:40 PM.
#4098358 - 03/28/15 01:42 PM Re: Lack of Alb DVs and Greentails in Jasta 5 Campaign [Re: JFM]  
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BTW, Lou/Hauksbee: How is Boistrancourt coming along? The WIP is fantastic! Looking forward the obs tower, etc.

#4098369 - 03/28/15 02:09 PM Re: Lack of Alb DVs and Greentails in Jasta 5 Campaign [Re: Olham]  
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Originally Posted By: Olham
Thank you for the detailed explanation, OvS!
Perhaps you can write to OBD with a link to this thread, so they notice it?


Polovski trawls this forum more than a Pirate hunting for fresh booty (insert sexual reference here) ... so I imagine he's already aware of this.

I'll ask him if there is anything I can do to help.

OvS


The Black Baron of Boistrancourt returns!!

I'd rather die fighting, than live for nothing. - Gen. G.S. Patton
#4098372 - 03/28/15 02:17 PM Re: Lack of Alb DVs and Greentails in Jasta 5 Campaign [Re: OvStachel]  
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Originally Posted By: OvStachel
Polovski trawls this forum more than a Pirate hunting for fresh booty...

Haha - if that is so: hey, Pol, have a good weekend!
You too of course, OvS!


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#4098422 - 03/28/15 05:21 PM Re: Lack of Alb DVs and Greentails in Jasta 5 Campaign [Re: OvStachel]  
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Originally Posted By: OvStachel

Also when we talk about 'aces'... we are also talking about pilots. Meaning... a lot of the 'aces' in WOFF are average pilots on their way to 'acedom'. So to make them active and give them life, they are always considered 'HA's'. This now gives them more priority than you to have a better plane unless you outrank them. Even though you have 10 kills and they have none.. you get the lesser crate if they outrank you.


In my experience the HAs always get the best planes even if I outrank them. I have intentionally started campaigns as a Hauptmann solely in order to fly with the one of the best new planes as soon as they are available to the squadron. But I continue to be assigned one of the old models for an extended period while multiple lower-ranking HAs fly the new ones every time from day one.

#4098455 - 03/28/15 06:58 PM Re: Lack of Alb DVs and Greentails in Jasta 5 Campaign [Re: hoongadoonga]  
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Originally Posted By: hoongadoonga
In my experience the HAs always get the best planes even if I outrank them.

Well, that would be okay for me.
After all, the campaign manager must be quite a "mighty machine" with a huge pile of data to control.
It would simply be too much, I guess, to even teach it who had which rank or soandso-many victories
etc. at which time in the war. So I guess a HA is treated as a HA from the beginning.
We must earn our spurs. That's okay for me, really.


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#4098528 - 03/28/15 10:30 PM Re: Lack of Alb DVs and Greentails in Jasta 5 Campaign [Re: Olham]  
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Originally Posted By: Olham
It would simply be too much, I guess, to even teach it who had which rank or soandso-many victories
etc. at which time in the war.


I agree that basing it on the number of victories would probably be too difficult.

However, I have read several times that it currently is based on rank, regardless of whether the pilot is a HA or me. This means that they must have thought it was possible to program it that way. However, it doesn't work that way in the game.

#4098547 - 03/28/15 11:46 PM Re: Lack of Alb DVs and Greentails in Jasta 5 Campaign [Re: JFM]  
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Nope.
And in my strictly non-scientific observations over the years it would appear:
1) HA's always in best plane available.
2) Non-HA's by rank.
Pretty simple.

Based on this I will be interested to see what happens when I play a "No HA" campaign.
With no HA's to give the best planes too it should then be strictly by rank.
Unless the player himself is somehow singled out for not so special treatment which I doubt.
We will see.

#4098627 - 03/29/15 08:18 AM Re: Lack of Alb DVs and Greentails in Jasta 5 Campaign [Re: JFM]  
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Well just tried a test campaign with a "Aces 1" mod.
J11 on April 22 1917. The Jasta is assigned 9 DIII (5 in use and 4 in reserve) and 14 DIII (Early) with 12 in use and two in reserve.
MvR and one Hauptmann have DIII and every else DIII (Early). Interestingly the one Hauptman who has the Early is also my wingman.
This is just at start and one quick (quickly exited) mission. I suspect a loss of two, or time, would make for more changes quickly.

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